How has CARLHAYDEN affected your opinion of amnesty for illegal immigrants?

[Bacon King]

FAR more in favor. I used to not care. Now I strongly support full and unconditional amnesty for all illegals.

I suppose murderers, rapists, and thieves should be pardoned of their crimes as well?

Murderers, rapists and thieves have crimes that actually hurt people. The only thing 'illegal' immigrants are guilty of is a law that shouldn't be there in the first place.

Regardless, we live in a 'law and order' society (supposedly) and because we have immigration laws, they need enforcing.  No they don't directly hurt people in the same way, but they do deplete state resources that could be given to citizens.

Ignoring BRTD's pedantry here, I'd like to put in my two cents.

Rather than following the law for the sake of following the law, a more pragmatic approach is needed. The immigration process should be simplified to get rid of the excessive bureaucracy that make people jump the border in the first place.

Anyone who isn't a convicted felon should be allowed to immigrate to the United States if they want to. I mean, really- what reason is there to not allow them in?

[MaC]

FAR more in favor. I used to not care. Now I strongly support full and unconditional amnesty for all illegals.

I suppose murderers, rapists, and thieves should be pardoned of their crimes as well?

Murderers, rapists and thieves have crimes that actually hurt people. The only thing 'illegal' immigrants are guilty of is a law that shouldn't be there in the first place.

Regardless, we live in a 'law and order' society (supposedly) and because we have immigration laws, they need enforcing.  No they don't directly hurt people in the same way, but they do deplete state resources that could be given to citizens.

Ignoring BRTD's pedantry here, I'd like to put in my two cents.

Rather than following the law for the sake of following the law, a more pragmatic approach is needed. The immigration process should be simplified to get rid of the excessive bureaucracy that make people jump the border in the first place.

Anyone who isn't a convicted felon should be allowed to immigrate to the United States if they want to. I mean, really- what reason is there to not allow them in?

Bacon King, I'd like to agree with you.  My state resource argument only stands because of the non-libertarian atmosphere of our county.  I (don't include all libertarians in this category plz) would like to abolish the national government-or at least reduce it to a minarchy where we wouldn't have to deal with problematic programs such as medicaid and social security.  I don't want more people mooching of the government than there already are.

However if we were to reduce the government to a very small libertarian one, we very well could have open borders because then the individuals would need to provide for themselves.  And I have no problem with people that come here legally to do this.  I admire that there are many immigrants that come here legally because it's a hard thing to do the legal way.  Citizenship means something once it's earned.  I would personally look to get rid of a lot of red tape that's making the process take so long and in the meanwhile encourage the border states to deny social programs to those who are here illegally as a first step in the problem.  I know it's not going to make a lot of difference-but it's a start in the right direction.

[AkSaber]

Nope, he hasn't swayed my opinion of the matter. But if it wasn't for him I don't know if I would have ever found out about the chaos on our border. Or that the whole deal of throwing those 2 border patrol agents in prison was utter bullsh**t.

[MaC]

Nope, he hasn't swayed my opinion of the matter. But if it wasn't for him I don't know if I would have ever found out about the chaos on our border. Or that the whole deal of throwing those 2 border patrol agents in prison was utter bullsh**t.

I'd worry a lot more about border control for your state; in the continental US, we mostly worry about Mexicans jumping.  In Alaska, you have to worry about Soviets.

[CARLHAYDEN]

Nope, he hasn't swayed my opinion of the matter. But if it wasn't for him I don't know if I would have ever found out about the chaos on our border. Or that the whole deal of throwing those 2 border patrol agents in prison was utter bullsh**t.

I'd worry a lot more about border control for your state; in the continental US, we mostly worry about Mexicans jumping.  In Alaska, you have to worry about Soviets.

Ah, Mac, the Soviet Union disappeared into the dustbin of history some years ago.  There are no "Soviets" today.

Also, there hasn't been a landbridge between the continents for a long time.

[MaC]

Nope, he hasn't swayed my opinion of the matter. But if it wasn't for him I don't know if I would have ever found out about the chaos on our border. Or that the whole deal of throwing those 2 border patrol agents in prison was utter bullsh**t.

I'd worry a lot more about border control for your state; in the continental US, we mostly worry about Mexicans jumping.  In Alaska, you have to worry about Soviets.

Ah, Mac, the Soviet Union disappeared into the dustbin of history some years ago.  There are no "Soviets" today.

Also, there hasn't been a landbridge between the continents for a long time.

I'm more in fear of future communist revival movements.  Russia isn't doing well in the world right now..

[CARLHAYDEN]

Nope, he hasn't swayed my opinion of the matter. But if it wasn't for him I don't know if I would have ever found out about the chaos on our border. Or that the whole deal of throwing those 2 border patrol agents in prison was utter bullsh**t.

I'd worry a lot more about border control for your state; in the continental US, we mostly worry about Mexicans jumping.  In Alaska, you have to worry about Soviets.

Ah, Mac, the Soviet Union disappeared into the dustbin of history some years ago.  There are no "Soviets" today.

Also, there hasn't been a landbridge between the continents for a long time.

I'm more in fear of future communist revival movements.  Russia isn't doing well in the world right now..

I'm not concerned about a revival of communism in Russia so much as extreme nationalism.

[Governor PiT]

same

[Frodo]

Hasn't really changed my opinion one way or the other. 

[Storebought]

Carl Hayden goes too far in his arguments. But he has made me think about it more than I would have otherwise.

In that sense, he has changed my opinion from "indifferent" to "slightly concerned." Especially, he has pointed out the social costs and national security risks of illegal immigration that professional (i.e., safely tenured) economists tend to ignore.

[Governor PiT]

Is he a right-winger?

[CARLHAYDEN]

Is he a right-winger?

I'm a moderately conservative with libertarian leanings.

Dave Leip has a nice chart of the leanings of a number of members of the forum, which you might want to check.  Its called the Community Political Matrix.


Oh, and since John Dibble so likes statistics, here's a few from the Matrix (Social scores):

Alcon          - 4.87
Bacon         - 7.91
BRTD          - 7.48
Dibble        - 6.09
Gabu         - 4.00
Jesus         - 9.04

Mine          - 0.17

Now,the higher the number (positive or negative) the farther one's political views are from the center.

Interesting data.

[bgwah]

He's kind of like PETA. He probably hurts his cause more than he helps it.

[Ebowed]

Is he a right-winger?

Yup, he's an extreme conservative and racist and very similar to posters such as yourself and StatesRights.

Dave Leip has a nice chart of the leanings of a number of members of the forum, which you might want to check.  Its called the Community Political Matrix.

A test, ironically written by Alcon and designed by Gabu, who you go on to insult in your little chart...

Now,the higher the number (positive or negative) the farther one's political views are from the center.

Irrelevant.

[CARLHAYDEN]

Well, lets see.

Take a look at your own ratings.

There are a number of systems which have been introduced at this Forum, and I consistently have about the same rating on the different systems.

Why don't we compare.

Seems to me that someone else is rather far from the center.

[Joe Republic]

Well, lets see.

Take a look at your own ratings.

There are a number of systems which have been introduced at this Forum, and I consistently have about the same rating on the different systems.

Why don't we compare.

Seems to me that someone else is rather far from the center.

I disagree with you too, and you may wish to check my own PM rating if you believe it to be so relevant to this discussion.

[CARLHAYDEN]

Well, lets see.

Take a look at your own ratings.

There are a number of systems which have been introduced at this Forum, and I consistently have about the same rating on the different systems.

Why don't we compare.

Seems to me that someone else is rather far from the center.

I disagree with you too, and you may wish to check my own PM rating if you believe it to be so relevant to this discussion.

Let me distinguish.

The posters I cited have demonstrably far left views which color their perceptions of illegal aliens.

You are simply an emotional type who relexively and thoughtlessly disagrees with everything I post.

[CARLHAYDEN]

Let me see, "woosh" is a magic term among liberals which washes away the faux pas.

Gee, I'll let the Rev. Jackson know that next time he refers to New York City as "hymietown," all he needs to do is say "woosh," and its all forgotten.

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

Read up CARL:

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/sarcasm

[Ebowed]

Yeah, Joe's probably on his period.  It's the only explanation!

You really owe Joe an apology for that crass, sexist and thoughless slur.

LMFAO!  How naive is this guy?

[Ban my account ffs!]

I hope "illegal aliens" steal your babies and make them speak Mexican, Carl Hayden.

[Governor PiT]

I just wish people like CARLHAYDEN and StatesRights would be brave enough to say what they really think.

We all know they are both very afraid of millions of brown people (brown people who speak a different language!!) coming into our country. That is at the center of all their hatred towards illegal immigrants... their own petty racism and elitism.

that is so pathetic to play the race card. the real racist elitist are rich white people who want a brown slave class because they are not willing to pay American Workers who demand a living wage and won't work for nothing.

[Ebowed]

None of the pro-immigrant types around here are rich, Bobby.

[CARLHAYDEN]

I hope "illegal aliens" steal your babies and make them speak Mexican, Carl Hayden.

Ah, the official language of Mexico is SPANISH.  Admittedly it is a dialect significantly different in actual practice than that spoken is Spain, but its still Spanish, NOT Mexican.

[Joe Republic]

Yeah, Joe's probably on his period.  It's the only explanation!

You really owe Joe an apology for that crass, sexist and thoughless slur.

LMFAO!  How naive is this guy?

I DEMAND AN APOLOGY, ALCON.


(Incidentally, Carl, "woosh" is also the sound that certain comments make as they pass over your head.)