How has CARLHAYDEN affected your opinion of amnesty for illegal immigrants?

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

FAR more in favor. I used to not care. Now I strongly support full and unconditional amnesty for all illegals.

[KEmperor]

My opinion is very rarely swayed by people on this forum.

[Alcon]

My opinion isn't swayed in the opposite direction just because I don't like something's supporters, and I'll resist a bad joke about deporting CARLHAYDEN.

[Inverted Things]

BRTD, I know this will come as quite a shock to you. You might even want to sit down and take a few deep breaths.


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You are altering your opinions to spite a string of 1s and 0s. Think about that.

[Gabu]

I don't care, and I still don't care, but I now will say that I'm in favor purely to make CARL's head explode, even if I actually don't care.

[MaC]

FAR more in favor. I used to not care. Now I strongly support full and unconditional amnesty for all illegals.

I suppose murderers, rapists, and thieves should be pardoned of their crimes as well?

[Bacon King]

FAR more in favor. I used to not care. Now I strongly support full and unconditional amnesty for all illegals.

I suppose murderers, rapists, and thieves should be pardoned of their crimes as well?

Murderers, rapists and thieves have crimes that actually hurt people. The only thing 'illegal' immigrants are guilty of is a law that shouldn't be there in the first place.

[CARLHAYDEN]

FAR more in favor. I used to not care. Now I strongly support full and unconditional amnesty for all illegals.

I suppose murderers, rapists, and thieves should be pardoned of their crimes as well?

Murderers, rapists and thieves have crimes that actually hurt people. The only thing 'illegal' immigrants are guilty of is a law that shouldn't be there in the first place.

Ah, why don't you try that line on:

Adrienne Shelly
Kris Eggle
David Nadel
Tanee Natividad
Helen Chaska
David March
Bret Clodfelter

[??????????]

The only thing 'illegal' immigrants are guilty of is a law that shouldn't be there in the first place.

Our country, or any country for that matter shouldn't have border controls to protect the national interests?

[DownWithTheLeft]

The only thing 'illegal' immigrants are guilty of is a law that shouldn't be there in the first place.

Our country, or any country for that matter shouldn't have border controls to protect the national interests?

Most liberals don't believe that

[MODU]

My opinion is very rarely swayed by people on this forum.

[Bacon King]

The only thing 'illegal' immigrants are guilty of is a law that shouldn't be there in the first place.

Our country, or any country for that matter shouldn't have border controls to protect the national interests?

My apologies, I should have made my statement clearer. Border controls are necessary, yes, but I do not believe that any honest, hardworking person should be denied the right to live in our nation if they so desire.

FAR more in favor. I used to not care. Now I strongly support full and unconditional amnesty for all illegals.

I suppose murderers, rapists, and thieves should be pardoned of their crimes as well?

Murderers, rapists and thieves have crimes that actually hurt people. The only thing 'illegal' immigrants are guilty of is a law that shouldn't be there in the first place.

Ah, why don't you try that line on:

Adrienne Shelly
Kris Eggle
David Nadel
Tanee Natividad
Helen Chaska
David March
Bret Clodfelter

I don't recognize any of those names, but I'm guessing they are people who have been killed/assaulted/etc by people who were here illegally?

It is a sad fact, but crime exists. I don't think immigrants are any more predisposed to comitting murder than any other group- there are always a few bad apples.

[CARLHAYDEN]

The only thing 'illegal' immigrants are guilty of is a law that shouldn't be there in the first place.

Our country, or any country for that matter shouldn't have border controls to protect the national interests?

My apologies, I should have made my statement clearer. Border controls are necessary, yes, but I do not believe that any honest, hardworking person should be denied the right to live in our nation if they so desire.

FAR more in favor. I used to not care. Now I strongly support full and unconditional amnesty for all illegals.

I suppose murderers, rapists, and thieves should be pardoned of their crimes as well?

Murderers, rapists and thieves have crimes that actually hurt people. The only thing 'illegal' immigrants are guilty of is a law that shouldn't be there in the first place.

Ah, why don't you try that line on:

Adrienne Shelly
Kris Eggle
David Nadel
Tanee Natividad
Helen Chaska
David March
Bret Clodfelter

I don't recognize any of those names, but I'm guessing they are people who have been killed/assaulted/etc by people who were here illegally?

It is a sad fact, but crime exists. I don't think immigrants are any more predisposed to comitting murder than any other group- there are always a few bad apples.

First, unfortunately, the government is refusing to provide much of the statistical data which would indicate that aliens illegally in this country do account for a disprportionate amount of violent crime. 

I suggest you check this out with law enforcement officers in any major American city.  They can tell you.

Now, there is a major difference between legal immigrants and illegal immigrants.  Again the statistical data has largely been suppresed by the government on this one (and I don't know why), but legal immigrants tend (based on information I have available) to have a violent crime rate slighltly lower than the native average.

Unfortunately the liberal media is painting the same false picture as Bush that they are simply hard-working, good-hearted people (some are).

Lets enforce the border and allow those who comply with the requirements to legally immigrate, keeping out those who have records of violent crimes.

Oh, and the list I provided was of persons murdered by illegal aliens.  If you check, there were a couple of Arizonans (one of hispanic descent).

[bgwah]

I just wish people like CARLHAYDEN and StatesRights would be brave enough to say what they really think.

We all know they are both very afraid of millions of brown people (brown people who speak a different language!!) coming into our country. That is at the center of all their hatred towards illegal immigrants... their own petty racism and elitism.

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

I just wish people like CARLHAYDEN and StatesRights would be brave enough to say what they really think.

We all know they are both very afraid of millions of brown people (brown people who speak a different language!!) coming into our country. That is at the center of all their hatred towards illegal immigrants... their own petty racism and elitism.

That's pretty much what I've gathered, and what's mostly altered my position.

[John Dibble]

No, it hasn't. Any racism on someone else's part, be it real or perceived, has no bearing on my own position on an issue. The only way you'll possibly influence my position is with logical arguments.

[??????????]

No, it hasn't. Any racism on someone else's part, be it real or perceived, has no bearing on my own position on an issue. The only way you'll possibly influence my position is with logical arguments.

How is CarlHayden being "racist"? Or is that just the liberal slam word for anyone who is against immigration?

[John Dibble]

No, it hasn't. Any racism on someone else's part, be it real or perceived, has no bearing on my own position on an issue. The only way you'll possibly influence my position is with logical arguments.

How is CarlHayden being "racist"? Or is that just the liberal slam word for anyone who is against immigration?

I never said he was - others did though, so I was making a point of how silly it is to change your position based on that alone. CarlHayden clearly dislikes illegal immigrants though, but I don't think it's a race issue myself, more likely a cultural one.

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

I think ag simply summed CARL up the best:

If you only knew how much most of your ramblings would fit the Volkischer Beobachter from the 1930s. You are a true national-sociallist, no question of that - and I am increasingly convinced that your type would fit better in Germany, not in Italy.  Unfortunately, I've known too many people like you (I grew up in a place where many people are proud Nazis), I can't mistake the type. As they say in Russia (I always loved Reagan's habit of using Russian proverbs left and right ), the hunchback can only be cured by being burried in a grave - moral hunchbacks like you are equally incorrigible.  You are outside human morality, that's what the problem with you.

I don't really have time, nor energy to react to all the venom you've been spouting, so I will not react to this anymore - I will just ignore your existence from now on.  Mercifully, the US is a strong country - the scum lilke you will forever be marginal there. That is why I love the US.

[??????????]

To bad AG was flat out wrong.

[MaC]

FAR more in favor. I used to not care. Now I strongly support full and unconditional amnesty for all illegals.

I suppose murderers, rapists, and thieves should be pardoned of their crimes as well?

Murderers, rapists and thieves have crimes that actually hurt people. The only thing 'illegal' immigrants are guilty of is a law that shouldn't be there in the first place.

Regardless, we live in a 'law and order' society (supposedly) and because we have immigration laws, they need enforcing.  No they don't directly hurt people in the same way, but they do deplete state resources that could be given to citizens.

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

FAR more in favor. I used to not care. Now I strongly support full and unconditional amnesty for all illegals.

I suppose murderers, rapists, and thieves should be pardoned of their crimes as well?

Murderers, rapists and thieves have crimes that actually hurt people. The only thing 'illegal' immigrants are guilty of is a law that shouldn't be there in the first place.

Regardless, we live in a 'law and order' society (supposedly) and because we have immigration laws, they need enforcing.  No they don't directly hurt people in the same way, but they do deplete state resources that could be given to citizens.

That doesn't seem like a very libertarian position. Libertarians hate laws, and are against distributing state resources.

[MODU]

FAR more in favor. I used to not care. Now I strongly support full and unconditional amnesty for all illegals.

I suppose murderers, rapists, and thieves should be pardoned of their crimes as well?

Murderers, rapists and thieves have crimes that actually hurt people. The only thing 'illegal' immigrants are guilty of is a law that shouldn't be there in the first place.

Regardless, we live in a 'law and order' society (supposedly) and because we have immigration laws, they need enforcing.  No they don't directly hurt people in the same way, but they do deplete state resources that could be given to citizens.

That doesn't seem like a very libertarian position. Libertarians hate laws, and are against distributing state resources.

Sorry, but that was a dumb response.

[MaC]

FAR more in favor. I used to not care. Now I strongly support full and unconditional amnesty for all illegals.

I suppose murderers, rapists, and thieves should be pardoned of their crimes as well?

Murderers, rapists and thieves have crimes that actually hurt people. The only thing 'illegal' immigrants are guilty of is a law that shouldn't be there in the first place.

Regardless, we live in a 'law and order' society (supposedly) and because we have immigration laws, they need enforcing.  No they don't directly hurt people in the same way, but they do deplete state resources that could be given to citizens.

That doesn't seem like a very libertarian position. Libertarians hate laws, and are against distributing state resources.

That doesn't seem like an intelligent approach.  "Libertarians hate laws" is why people don't take you seriously.  Come back when you learn something new.

[David S]

I don't have a problem with legal immigration however illegal immigration is illegal. If illegal immigrants are allowed to break the law can I break it too? Can I stop paying taxes? Can I carry a gun without a permit? Can I ignore the speed limit? Laws are laws. We should enforce our immigration laws. I believe that is also Carl's position. So I was in agreement with him before and after he started posting on the subject.