question for the libertarians (re:medicaid)

[WalterMitty]

should medicaid be abolished?

(i think i already know the libertarian position on medicare, so no need asking about it)

[John Dibble]

Should it? Yes, I think it should. I don't believe the federal goverment needs to be in that kind of business nor do I think they have the constitutional authority to do so. Now, if the states want their own localized versions they could do so provided their own constitutions allowed it - this would allow a greater degree of experimentation with the system and even perhaps make it so that it's not structured as a redistribution system, potentially resulting in a more efficient system. I might still have objections to a state system depending on how it is operated, but my objections would likely be fewer in number.

Will it? Not in the forseeable future. I don't think it's politically wise to do something that drastic, so even if libertarians had some modicum of power in Congress the other members would likely shoot it down. The only politically viable move I can think at the moment of is that the actual system could be run by the states as they see fit with the funding coming from the feds.

[David S]

Should it? Yes, I think it should. I don't believe the federal goverment needs to be in that kind of business nor do I think they have the constitutional authority to do so. Now, if the states want their own localized versions they could do so provided their own constitutions allowed it - this would allow a greater degree of experimentation with the system and even perhaps make it so that it's not structured as a redistribution system, potentially resulting in a more efficient system. I might still have objections to a state system depending on how it is operated, but my objections would likely be fewer in number.

Will it? Not in the forseeable future. I don't think it's politically wise to do something that drastic, so even if libertarians had some modicum of power in Congress the other members would likely shoot it down. The only politically viable move I can think at the moment of is that the actual system could be run by the states as they see fit with the funding coming from the feds.

^^^^^ 

[MaC]

should medicaid be abolished?

(i think i already know the libertarian position on medicare, so no need asking about it)

What's the difference between medicare and medicaid?  I'm curious-one is for elderly, the other's for poor-or something like htat?

[John Dibble]

should medicaid be abolished?

(i think i already know the libertarian position on medicare, so no need asking about it)

What's the difference between medicare and medicaid?  I'm curious-one is for elderly, the other's for poor-or something like htat?

That's the short of it, yeah. Medicare is for seniors and medicaid is for the poor, IIRC.

[Nym90]

The money spent on Medicaid and other such programs is much less then than the costs of going without those programs, even if you completely dismiss any of the moral arguments for them. Poverty hurts everyone, not just those who are in poverty.

[WalterMitty]

The money spent on Medicaid and other such programs is much less then than the costs of going without those programs, even if you completely dismiss any of the moral arguments for them. Poverty hurts everyone, not just those who are in poverty.

youre right.

i dont understand how anyone could be opposed to medicaid.  i really dont understand.

maybe we should ask libertarians how they feel about  taxation on dividends, the estate tax and the capital gains tax.

[David S]

Walter you seem to be in "attack Libertarians" mode today. Rather than going on the defensive I think I'll go on the offensive. Lets look at the performance of your party.

Since the Republicans took control of the white house as well as the legislature the national debt has grown from $5.7 trillion to $8.7 trillion an increase of 50% in only 6 years. The government's unfunded future  liabilities now stands at $54 trillion, in large part due to Medicare and Medicaid. That figure was not  tracked until last year, so we can't say how much it has grown during W's tenure but it did grow $3 trillion since last year. That mountain of debt will be left to our children, yours as well as mine, to deal with. And that's from the party that billed itself as being fiscally responsible. BTW for the tenth year in a row the financial report  issued by the government was so screwed up that the GAO refused to certify it. Now there's some fiscal responsibility.

We are now in a war we have no need to be in, a war that has cost 3000 American lives, 50,000 Iraq lives and many billions of dollars. Its a war we were lead into based on falsehoods.

W has put at least one American in jail without charges and kept him there for three years. Its a violation of the 5th and 6th amendments as well as habeas corpus. But what do you expect when  W thinks the constitution is "just a piece of paper".

The Patriot act encroaches on the 4th amendment and the campaign finance reform act encroaches on the 1st. Both acts were passed by a Republican controlled legislature and signed into law by W.

You seem to think the healthcare situation in America is deplorable, but it was your party in conjunction with the D's who created it. We, the Libertarians who have no power whatsoever in government, had nothing to do with it.

Maybe you need to clean up your own backyard before you complain about ours.

[WalterMitty]

Walter you seem to be in "attack Libertarians" mode today. Rather than going on the defensive I think I'll go on the offensive. Lets look at the performance of your party.

Since the Republicans took control of the white house as well as the legislature the national debt has grown from $5.7 trillion to $8.7 trillion an increase of 50% in only 6 years. The government's unfunded future  liabilities now stands at $54 trillion, in large part due to Medicare and Medicaid. That figure was not  tracked until last year, so we can't say how much it has grown during W's tenure but it did grow $3 trillion since last year. That mountain of debt will be left to our children, yours as well as mine, to deal with. And that's from the party that billed itself as being fiscally responsible. BTW for the tenth year in a row the financial report  issued by the government was so screwed up that the GAO refused to certify it. Now there's some fiscal responsibility.

We are now in a war we have no need to be in, a war that has cost 3000 American lives, 50,000 Iraq lives and many billions of dollars. Its a war we were lead into based on falsehoods.

W has put at least one American in jail without charges and kept him there for three years. Its a violation of the 5th and 6th amendments as well as habeas corpus. But what do you expect when  W thinks the constitution is "just a piece of paper".

The Patriot act encroaches on the 4th amendment and the campaign finance reform act encroaches on the 1st. Both acts were passed by a Republican controlled legislature and signed into law by W.

You seem to think the healthcare situation in America is deplorable, but it was your party in conjunction with the D's who created it. We, the Libertarians who have no power whatsoever in government, had nothing to do with it.

Maybe you need to clean up your own backyard before you complain about ours.

i just think it is repulsive how your party wants goodies from the government in the form of lucrative tax breaks, yet you all want to take health care away from the few poor folks that have it.  how can anyone defend that?

yes, the republican record on the debt is horrible.  id be the first to admit that. 

im a war supporter.  obviously the world changed after 9/11 and we just cant bury our heads in the sand and wait for the next attack.  we must go on the offensive.

the patriot act is just a boogeyman dreamed up by liberals and the black helicopter crowd.  im not aware of anyone who is getting their rights stripped away because of the patriot act.

[David S]

Walter you seem to be in "attack Libertarians" mode today. Rather than going on the defensive I think I'll go on the offensive. Lets look at the performance of your party.

Since the Republicans took control of the white house as well as the legislature the national debt has grown from $5.7 trillion to $8.7 trillion an increase of 50% in only 6 years. The government's unfunded future  liabilities now stands at $54 trillion, in large part due to Medicare and Medicaid. That figure was not  tracked until last year, so we can't say how much it has grown during W's tenure but it did grow $3 trillion since last year. That mountain of debt will be left to our children, yours as well as mine, to deal with. And that's from the party that billed itself as being fiscally responsible. BTW for the tenth year in a row the financial report  issued by the government was so screwed up that the GAO refused to certify it. Now there's some fiscal responsibility.

We are now in a war we have no need to be in, a war that has cost 3000 American lives, 50,000 Iraq lives and many billions of dollars. Its a war we were lead into based on falsehoods.

W has put at least one American in jail without charges and kept him there for three years. Its a violation of the 5th and 6th amendments as well as habeas corpus. But what do you expect when  W thinks the constitution is "just a piece of paper".

The Patriot act encroaches on the 4th amendment and the campaign finance reform act encroaches on the 1st. Both acts were passed by a Republican controlled legislature and signed into law by W.

You seem to think the healthcare situation in America is deplorable, but it was your party in conjunction with the D's who created it. We, the Libertarians who have no power whatsoever in government, had nothing to do with it.

Maybe you need to clean up your own backyard before you complain about ours.

i just think it is repulsive how your party wants goodies from the government in the form of lucrative tax breaks, yet you all want to take health care away from the few poor folks that have it.  how can anyone defend that?

In point of fact, the money people earn is their money not the government's. You describe it as "getting goodies from the government"when in reality it is simply allowing people to keep the fruits of their own labor. Why is it that you feel free to confiscate someone else's hard earned cash to pay for your healthcare? Maybe part of the reason you can't afford healthcare is that part of your earnings are taken to pay for someone else's healthcare.

[Undisguised Sockpuppet]

Yes. Medicare would be replaced by a singlepayer healthcare system.

[Inverted Things]

i just think it is repulsive how your party wants goodies from the government in the form of lucrative tax breaks, yet you all want to take health care away from the few poor folks that have it.  how can anyone defend that?

I work. I am a teacher. I *create* wealth in that these students I teach will be tomorrow's engineers, and will themselves *create* wealth by building new and better things. (Not that teaching is anything special; pretty much any sort of job creates wealth in some way).

What the government does with medicaid is simple redistribution. It takes the wealth that I *create* and transfers it to someone else. I dislike giving my wealth away; what do I get in return?

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The world is exactly the same now as is was before 9/11/01, except that we have a reactionary government with an itchy trigger finger when it comes to declaring war and infringing on constitutional rights.

[MaC]

Walter you seem to be in "attack Libertarians" mode today.

Isn't that every day?

[WalterMitty]

Walter you seem to be in "attack Libertarians" mode today.

Isn't that every day?

well there is a reason why your candidates cant seem to get over 0.47% of the vote.

and mac, dont you attend michigan state?  libertarians dont have a problem with land grant colleges?

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

well there is a reason why your candidates cant seem to get over 0.47% of the vote.

And that's because they share the same positions as your beloved Club for Growth.

[WalterMitty]

well there is a reason why your candidates cant seem to get over 0.47% of the vote.

And that's because they share the same positions as your beloved Club for Growth.

universal single payer health care is a very pro-business position.

the libertarians and the club for growth should support it as i do.

[John Dibble]

universal single payer health care is a very pro-business position.

*snicker* Yeah, I'm sure all the insurance companies would just love having medical insurance being handled by someone other than themselves.

[WalterMitty]

universal single payer health care is a very pro-business position.

*snicker* Yeah, I'm sure all the insurance companies would just love having medical insurance being handled by someone other than themselves.

but other employers would sure like to have that burden off their backs.

[John Dibble]

universal single payer health care is a very pro-business position.

*snicker* Yeah, I'm sure all the insurance companies would just love having medical insurance being handled by someone other than themselves.

but other employers would sure like to have that burden off their backs.

Sure, and be burdened with dealing with a different set of beauracracy.

[David S]

universal single payer health care is a very pro-business position.

*snicker* Yeah, I'm sure all the insurance companies would just love having medical insurance being handled by someone other than themselves.

but other employers would sure like to have that burden off their backs.

Yes the auto companies (that you don't like much) would very much like to dump that burden onto the taxpayers i.e. you. Then despite the fact that you can't afford your own healthcare insurance you will be forced to pay for the healthcare of those UAW  employees that you also don't like much.

[David S]

Walter you seem to be in "attack Libertarians" mode today.

Isn't that every day?

well there is a reason why your candidates cant seem to get over 0.47% of the vote.

Yes our party does not promise to hand out goodies from the public till to those who would vote for us.

[WalterMitty]

universal single payer health care is a very pro-business position.

*snicker* Yeah, I'm sure all the insurance companies would just love having medical insurance being handled by someone other than themselves.

but other employers would sure like to have that burden off their backs.

Yes the auto companies (that you don't like much) would very much like to dump that burden onto the taxpayers i.e. you. Then despite the fact that you can't afford your own healthcare insurance you will be forced to pay for the healthcare of those UAW  employees that you also don't like much.

i think everyone is well aware that i cant afford health insurance.

as ive said many times, ive paid one hell of a price.  so whatever mistakes ive made, ive paid for them plus some.

i realize that libertarians dont give  a damn about people like me.  the party platform makes it painfully obvious.

[MaC]

Walter you seem to be in "attack Libertarians" mode today.

Isn't that every day?

well there is a reason why your candidates cant seem to get over 0.47% of the vote.

Yes our party does not promise to hand out goodies from the public till to those who would vote for us.

A better question to ask is "is our party only gets .47% in the election are they worth Mitty's efforts to attack?"

[David S]

universal single payer health care is a very pro-business position.

*snicker* Yeah, I'm sure all the insurance companies would just love having medical insurance being handled by someone other than themselves.

but other employers would sure like to have that burden off their backs.

Yes the auto companies (that you don't like much) would very much like to dump that burden onto the taxpayers i.e. you. Then despite the fact that you can't afford your own healthcare insurance you will be forced to pay for the healthcare of those UAW  employees that you also don't like much.

i think everyone is well aware that i cant afford health insurance.

as ive said many times, ive paid one hell of a price.  so whatever mistakes ive made, ive paid for them plus some.

i realize that libertarians dont give  a damn about people like me.  the party platform makes it painfully obvious.

Walter I don't know what your situation is or how you got into it. What I do know is that you want government to give you healthcare insurance. But government must take the money from someone else to pay for that insurance. Maybe the money government is taking from them is money they need to make the house payment, or buy food or send their kids to college, or to fund a saving account for their retirement. Maybe they need that money just as bad as you do. The difference is they earned it. You didn't.

[Richard]

should medicaid be abolished?

(i think i already know the libertarian position on medicare, so no need asking about it)

Yes.