Counties in Arizona, Pennsylvania fail to certify election results by legal deadlines

[pppolitics]

Two counties in a couple of swing states turned what is usually an uneventful step in the election process into a political flashpoint on Monday.

Officials in rural, Republican-controlled Cochise County in southeastern Arizona, near Tucson, voted to delay certifying the results of this year's midterm elections and to miss the state's legal deadline of Monday, despite finding no legitimate problems with the local counts.

"There is no reason for us to delay," said the Democratic chair of the county's board of supervisors, Ann English, whose vote was outnumbered by the county's two Republican supervisors, Tom Crosby and Peggy Judd.

The move risks the exclusion of more than 47,000 Arizonans' votes from the state's final, official tally, and it has set off court action. The nonprofit Arizona Alliance for Retired Americans and a Cochise County voter, represented in part by the Elias Law Group, are suing the county supervisors to try to force them to certify by Thursday.

Secretary of State Katie Hobbs, who was elected this month to be Arizona's next governor, filed court papers also asking a state court to order the county's supervisors to certify by Thursday so that Hobbs can complete the statewide certification by Dec. 8, the last possible day allowed after the Dec. 5 deadline under state law.

"Absent this Court's intervention, the Secretary will have no choice but to complete the statewide canvass by December 8 without Cochise County's votes included," Hobbs' attorneys wrote in a court filing. "Thus, the Board's inaction not only violates the plain language of the statute, but also undermines a basic tenet of free and fair elections in this state: ensuring that every Arizonan's voice is heard."

And in northeastern Pennsylvania's Luzerne County, some 117,000 votes may end up left out of official results after the local board of elections deadlocked along party lines when its fifth member, a Democrat, abstained from voting on whether to certify. Monday is the state's certification deadline for counties that have not received legally valid recount petitions.

Pennsylvania's Department of State has contacted the county's officials "to inquire about the board's decision and their intended next steps," spokesperson Ellen Lyon said in an email. The Democratic board member who abstained from voting told The Associated Press after the hearing that he planned to vote in favor of certifying at another meeting, set for Wednesday.

[...]

https://www.npr.org/2022/11/28/1139447507/arizona-midterm-election-results-cochise-county

[○∙◄☻¥tπ[╪AV┼cVê└]

Kind of a self own.

[pppolitics]

I don't understand why Hobbs want force Cochise County to certify its result.

If the results from Cochise County were not counted, Hoffman would win the race for Superintendent of Public Instruction.

Engel also probably easily win AZ-6 without Cochise County.

[Skill and Chance]

I don't understand why Hobbs want force Cochise County to certify its result.

If the results from Cochise County were not counted, Hoffman would win the race for Superintendent of Public Instruction.

Engel also probably easily win AZ-6 without Cochise County.

Because you don't set this precedent.

[NerdyBohemian]

Republican Facebook clickbait fake news the next day:

Arizona Democrat Party usurps power and cancels votes of MAGA county!

[Aurelius]

If Cochise doesn't certify, Ciscomani loses. Losing yourself a House seat to own the libs!

Half of me wants this to happen because it might be what finally convinces the AZ GOP to save itself from insanity. I'm tired of losing very winnable races because of lunatics.

[pppolitics]

I don't understand why Hobbs want force Cochise County to certify its result.

If the results from Cochise County were not counted, Hoffman would win the race for Superintendent of Public Instruction.

Engel also probably easily win AZ-6 without Cochise County.

Because you don't set this precedent.

If Republicans want to hang themselves, Democrats need not save them.

[Landslide Lyndon]

FTR, the Pennsylvania Democrat who abstained isn't some kind of conspiracy nut. He did it deliberately, knowing fully well that it won't influence the outcome of any race, because he (and many others) wants a precedent established by the courts in case something similar happens in a more competitive year.   

[Tekken_Guy]

I don't understand why Hobbs want force Cochise County to certify its result.

If the results from Cochise County were not counted, Hoffman would win the race for Superintendent of Public Instruction.

Engel also probably easily win AZ-6 without Cochise County.

Because you don't set this precedent.

Imagine this happens. Then next week, Georgia Republicans throw out all of Fulton or DeKalb County’s votes.

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

I don't understand why Hobbs want force Cochise County to certify its result.

If the results from Cochise County were not counted, Hoffman would win the race for Superintendent of Public Instruction.

Engel also probably easily win AZ-6 without Cochise County.

Because you don't set this precedent.

If Republicans want to hang themselves, Democrats need not save them.

And then what happens when crazy Republicans take control of the Maricopa County Board?

This isn't something that should be able to be used as a weapon and Hobbs and the courts now have an opportunity to nip it in the bud.

[Atlas Force]

I don't understand why Hobbs want force Cochise County to certify its result.

If the results from Cochise County were not counted, Hoffman would win the race for Superintendent of Public Instruction.

Engel also probably easily win AZ-6 without Cochise County.

Because Democrats are the party of election integrity.

[pppolitics]

I don't understand why Hobbs want force Cochise County to certify its result.

If the results from Cochise County were not counted, Hoffman would win the race for Superintendent of Public Instruction.

Engel also probably easily win AZ-6 without Cochise County.

Because you don't set this precedent.

If Republicans want to hang themselves, Democrats need not save them.

And then what happens when crazy Republicans take control of the Maricopa County Board?

This isn't something that should be able to be used as a weapon and Hobbs and the courts now have an opportunity to nip it in the bud.

...then Democrats prepare for lawsuit when that happens

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

I don't understand why Hobbs want force Cochise County to certify its result.

If the results from Cochise County were not counted, Hoffman would win the race for Superintendent of Public Instruction.

Engel also probably easily win AZ-6 without Cochise County.

Because you don't set this precedent.

If Republicans want to hang themselves, Democrats need not save them.

And then what happens when crazy Republicans take control of the Maricopa County Board?

This isn't something that should be able to be used as a weapon and Hobbs and the courts now have an opportunity to nip it in the bud.

...then Democrats prepare for lawsuit when that happens

Much easier just to set the precedent now that they don't get to do that rather than fight over it when the results actually matter.

[Devils30]

If Cochise doesn't certify, Ciscomani loses. Losing yourself a House seat to own the libs!

Half of me wants this to happen because it might be what finally convinces the AZ GOP to save itself from insanity. I'm tired of losing very winnable races because of lunatics.

The House would never seat Engel and the precedent set needs to mandate counties certify fair election results.

[DrScholl]

I don't understand why Hobbs want force Cochise County to certify its result.

If the results from Cochise County were not counted, Hoffman would win the race for Superintendent of Public Instruction.

Engel also probably easily win AZ-6 without Cochise County.

Because you don't set this precedent.

Imagine this happens. Then next week, Georgia Republicans throw out all of Fulton or DeKalb County’s votes.

The problem with that is Republicans don't control either of those counties and cannot refuse to certify the votes. In Arizona it is a Republican controlled county refusing to certify.

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

Hobbs has filed a suit against Cochise County (in her role as Secretary of State, not as a candidate): https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2022/nov/28/republicans-arizona-county-refuse-to-certify-midterm-election-results

[Devout Centrist]

I don't understand why Hobbs want force Cochise County to certify its result.

Because Cochise is required by statute to certify its election results? As Secretary of State, Hobbs has a legal obligation to ensure a complete and accurate canvass.

[GALeftist]

I am comfortable with doing a lot (gerrymandering, polling places proportional to county population, etc.) to prevent Republicans from winning but tossing out votes because their officials have drank the Kool-Aid seems like a bridge too far. Ciscomani won the race, he should be seated.

[pppolitics]

If Democrats are stupid enough to be blocking their own votes, would Republicans try to stop it?

NEVER!

Democrats need not unilaterally disarm

[DrScholl]

I am comfortable with doing a lot (gerrymandering, polling places proportional to county population, etc.) to prevent Republicans from winning but tossing out votes because their officials have drank the Kool-Aid seems like a bridge too far. Ciscomani won the race, he should be seated.

If certification by the county is required for the state to certify the county's votes then there really is nothing that can be done other than sue the county to certify. You can't just certify votes without the county certifying the election. At the end of the day it's Republicans that put themselves in this position, not Democrats. Why should Democrats break the law to save Republicans from stupidity? If the votes are going to be certified it should be done legally.

[GeorgiaModerate]

I am comfortable with doing a lot (gerrymandering, polling places proportional to county population, etc.) to prevent Republicans from winning but tossing out votes because their officials have drank the Kool-Aid seems like a bridge too far. Ciscomani won the race, he should be seated.

If certification by the county is required for the state to certify the county's votes then there really is nothing that can be done other than sue the county to certify. You can't just certify votes without the county certifying the election. At the end of the day it's Republicans that put themselves in this position, not Democrats. Why should Democrats break the law to save Republicans from stupidity? If the votes are going to be certified it should be done legally.

This is why (in the Arizona case) the state is seeking a writ of mandamus from a court to compel the county to do their job, rather than the state just certifying on their own without the county certification.

[Vosem]

Hobbs certifying Engel as the winner based on this would be very funny, I agree. (Ciscomani would, beyond a shadow of a doubt, win in either state or federal court -- or both -- and ultimately be seated, and playing this up as much as possible would burnish his moderate credentials and ultimately make him a much stronger candidate to hold his House seat/run statewide down the road.)

I don't understand why Hobbs want force Cochise County to certify its result.

If the results from Cochise County were not counted, Hoffman would win the race for Superintendent of Public Instruction.

Engel also probably easily win AZ-6 without Cochise County.

Because you don't set this precedent.

Imagine this happens. Then next week, Georgia Republicans throw out all of Fulton or DeKalb County’s votes.

The problem with that is Republicans don't control either of those counties and cannot refuse to certify the votes. In Arizona it is a Republican controlled county refusing to certify.

In large swing counties this sort of thing could be used to intentionally swing elections; for instance my understanding is that Dutchess County, NY -- which voted for Pat Ryan over Colin Schmitt -- is Republican-controlled and so could in principle refuse to certify and try to force a Schmitt victory. It is plausible that a county like Maricopa (which still has many Republican officers at the local level, though I don't think this board is Republican-controlled) doing this could swing a presidential election. In some states, these county officials are appointed by the state rather than directly elected, so one could imagine heavily Democratic counties having Republican-dominated election boards (or vice versa). Also, doing this is simply illegal and wouldn't be tolerated by the court system regardless of which party it is benefiting.

[jamestroll]

Just certify the election so Ciscomani can take office.

[GeorgiaModerate]

https://twitter.com/Garrett_Archer/status/1597734871035936768

[Devout Centrist]

If Democrats are stupid enough to be blocking their own votes, would Republicans try to stop it?

NEVER!

Democrats need not unilaterally disarm

Bro it’s the law. Even if Hobbs *didn’t* file suit, a judge would force them to certify the vote.