Ballots, Not Votes

[BG-NY]

Ever since early voting expanded in popularity, it became this was the future (d)evolution of elections. Both 2020 and 2024 showed that the power of ballots is greater than the powers of incumbency for both presidential elections for parties in power, and midterm elections for parties out of power. The game is now about counting ballots, not counting votes.

As much as I hate to say, the vote-by-mail laws aren't going anywhere. I think several legal reforms could improve the process.

Reform 1: Require all states with VBM *also* have in-person early voting.

For states that have full VBM but do not have in-person voting, the legislatures need to pass laws for windows to be in sync. Every location that has drop-offs should also allow voters to vote in person early, for the same number of days.

Reform 2: Require all ballots be received by election day.

If early voting needs to have a one-week cutoff prior to election day in order for ballots to be received, so be it. If states want to extend the early voting back earlier to preserve the number of weeks of early voting, go for it.

Reform 3: Send ballots to all registered voters in the state.

We have eight states that send mail ballots to all registered voters: CA, CO, HI, NV, OR, UT, VT, WA (+DC). Unsurprisingly, all eight states so increases in turnout, and saw shifts toward PVI. All 50 states need to embrace the same policy.

---

The above changes will create a level playing field, improve public confidence in the process massively, and force candidates to focus more on persuasion than turnout.

We can do better.

[Ferguson97]

Reform #2 is a non-starter.

If you want to say they have to be post-marked by Election Day, that’s another story. But whether or not your vote counts shouldn’t be determined by how fast or slow the USPS is.

[BG-NY]

Reform #2 is a non-starter.

If you want to say they have to be post-marked by Election Day, that’s another story. But whether or not your vote counts shouldn’t be determined by how fast or slow the USPS is.

What’s wrong with starting early voting a week earlier and ending early voting a week before election day? Or maybe a compromise would be only allowing ballots to be dropped off in boxes at voting centers for the last week.

[OSR stands with Israel]

Reform #2 is a non-starter.

If you want to say they have to be post-marked by Election Day, that’s another story. But whether or not your vote counts shouldn’t be determined by how fast or slow the USPS is.

Oregon literally had that rule until they used Covid as an excuse to get rid of it

[Former Dean Phillips Supporters for Haley (I guess???!?) 👁️]

What’s wrong with starting early voting a week earlier and ending early voting a week before election day?

What is wrong with it is that it means that when Republicans are in charge, they will pull a DeJoy and sabotage the delivery of mail in order to stop ballots from arriving prior to election day.

In other words, the reason why we cannot have nice things is because Republicans are anti-American arsonists and Putinist Soviet stooges.

[Ferguson97]

Reform #2 is a non-starter.

If you want to say they have to be post-marked by Election Day, that’s another story. But whether or not your vote counts shouldn’t be determined by how fast or slow the USPS is.

Oregon literally had that rule until they used Covid as an excuse to get rid of it

Okay? Then Oregon had a bad law, and it's good that they got rid of it. (You're not very good at this 'gotcha' stuff, OSR.)

[Roll Roons]

Reform #2 is a non-starter.

If you want to say they have to be post-marked by Election Day, that’s another story. But whether or not your vote counts shouldn’t be determined by how fast or slow the USPS is.

Oregon literally had that rule until they used Covid as an excuse to get rid of it

Okay? Then Oregon had a bad law, and it's good that they got rid of it. (You're not very good at this 'gotcha' stuff, OSR.)

Why the hell are you trying to defend this? You don't need to blindly defend everything Democrats do.

Taking a long time to report results undermines faith in the process. There was absolutely nothing wrong with the old system. It still gives people the flexibility to vote however they want.

[President Punxsutawney Phil]

These three adopted would be a net benefit, but maybe statute could be tinkered elsewhere to discourage toying with proper processes.

[Ferguson97]

Reform #2 is a non-starter.

If you want to say they have to be post-marked by Election Day, that’s another story. But whether or not your vote counts shouldn’t be determined by how fast or slow the USPS is.

Oregon literally had that rule until they used Covid as an excuse to get rid of it

Okay? Then Oregon had a bad law, and it's good that they got rid of it. (You're not very good at this 'gotcha' stuff, OSR.)

Why the hell are you trying to defend this? You don't need to blindly defend everything Democrats do.

Taking a long time to report results undermines faith in the process. There was absolutely nothing wrong with the old system. It still gives people the flexibility to vote however they want.

Why the hell are you arguing against this? You don't need to blindly defend everything Republicans do.

I'm asking you a very simple question: why should whether or not your vote counts depend on how fast or slow the USPS is?

I'm going to be honest, I think the reason you're fine with the old law is because you think that not counting mail-in ballots that arrive late will disproportionately harm Democrats. You don't want those votes counted because you think it will be easier for Republicans to win elections. It's a simple as that, and it would be easier for everyone if you would just be honest about it.

[Roll Roons]

Reform #2 is a non-starter.

If you want to say they have to be post-marked by Election Day, that’s another story. But whether or not your vote counts shouldn’t be determined by how fast or slow the USPS is.

Oregon literally had that rule until they used Covid as an excuse to get rid of it

Okay? Then Oregon had a bad law, and it's good that they got rid of it. (You're not very good at this 'gotcha' stuff, OSR.)

Why the hell are you trying to defend this? You don't need to blindly defend everything Democrats do.

Taking a long time to report results undermines faith in the process. There was absolutely nothing wrong with the old system. It still gives people the flexibility to vote however they want.

Why the hell are you arguing against this? You don't need to blindly defend everything Republicans do.

I'm asking you a very simple question: why should whether or not your vote counts depend on how fast or slow the USPS is?

I'm going to be honest, I think the reason you're fine with the old law is because you think that not counting mail-in ballots that arrive late will disproportionately harm Democrats. You don't want those votes counted because you think it will be easier for Republicans to win elections. It's a simple as that, and it would be easier for everyone if you would just be honest about it.

You seem to think I'm some far-right MAGA lunatic when I'm really not.

I have never been opposed to mail-in voting. I just don't think it's reasonable for election results to come in a slow trickle over a period of several weeks after election day, regardless of whether it produces a blue shift or red shift. It does a huge disservice to the candidates, their teams and the constituents.

If you don't think USPS is reliable, I don't have a problem with an extensive and accessible in-person early voting period.

[OSR stands with Israel]

Reform #2 is a non-starter.

If you want to say they have to be post-marked by Election Day, that’s another story. But whether or not your vote counts shouldn’t be determined by how fast or slow the USPS is.

Oregon literally had that rule until they used Covid as an excuse to get rid of it

Okay? Then Oregon had a bad law, and it's good that they got rid of it. (You're not very good at this 'gotcha' stuff, OSR.)

Why the hell are you trying to defend this? You don't need to blindly defend everything Democrats do.

Taking a long time to report results undermines faith in the process. There was absolutely nothing wrong with the old system. It still gives people the flexibility to vote however they want.

Why the hell are you arguing against this? You don't need to blindly defend everything Republicans do.

I'm asking you a very simple question: why should whether or not your vote counts depend on how fast or slow the USPS is?

I'm going to be honest, I think the reason you're fine with the old law is because you think that not counting mail-in ballots that arrive late will disproportionately harm Democrats. You don't want those votes counted because you think it will be easier for Republicans to win elections. It's a simple as that, and it would be easier for everyone if you would just be honest about it.

Let me ask you another question:

Why do you guys ignore the fact that mail in balloting does undermine the secrecy of the ballot. Mail in balloting 100% should be limited cause of this and it should be limited to people who have a valid reason to not vote in person . 2020 was different cause COVID gave pretty much everyone a valid reason why they wouldn’t want to vote in person but that reason is gone

[Ferguson97]

Reform #2 is a non-starter.

If you want to say they have to be post-marked by Election Day, that’s another story. But whether or not your vote counts shouldn’t be determined by how fast or slow the USPS is.

Oregon literally had that rule until they used Covid as an excuse to get rid of it

Okay? Then Oregon had a bad law, and it's good that they got rid of it. (You're not very good at this 'gotcha' stuff, OSR.)

Why the hell are you trying to defend this? You don't need to blindly defend everything Democrats do.

Taking a long time to report results undermines faith in the process. There was absolutely nothing wrong with the old system. It still gives people the flexibility to vote however they want.

Why the hell are you arguing against this? You don't need to blindly defend everything Republicans do.

I'm asking you a very simple question: why should whether or not your vote counts depend on how fast or slow the USPS is?

I'm going to be honest, I think the reason you're fine with the old law is because you think that not counting mail-in ballots that arrive late will disproportionately harm Democrats. You don't want those votes counted because you think it will be easier for Republicans to win elections. It's a simple as that, and it would be easier for everyone if you would just be honest about it.

Let me ask you another question:

Why do you guys ignore the fact that mail in balloting does undermine the secrecy of the ballot. Mail in balloting 100% should be limited cause of this and it should be limited to people who have a valid reason to not vote in person 

It only undermines the secrecy of the ballot in this fantasy where someone is searching through the mail to see how someone voted.

If you're that concerned about it, then vote in-person. No one is forcing you to vote by mail.

[OSR stands with Israel]

Reform #2 is a non-starter.

If you want to say they have to be post-marked by Election Day, that’s another story. But whether or not your vote counts shouldn’t be determined by how fast or slow the USPS is.

Oregon literally had that rule until they used Covid as an excuse to get rid of it

Okay? Then Oregon had a bad law, and it's good that they got rid of it. (You're not very good at this 'gotcha' stuff, OSR.)

Why the hell are you trying to defend this? You don't need to blindly defend everything Democrats do.

Taking a long time to report results undermines faith in the process. There was absolutely nothing wrong with the old system. It still gives people the flexibility to vote however they want.

Why the hell are you arguing against this? You don't need to blindly defend everything Republicans do.

I'm asking you a very simple question: why should whether or not your vote counts depend on how fast or slow the USPS is?

I'm going to be honest, I think the reason you're fine with the old law is because you think that not counting mail-in ballots that arrive late will disproportionately harm Democrats. You don't want those votes counted because you think it will be easier for Republicans to win elections. It's a simple as that, and it would be easier for everyone if you would just be honest about it.

Let me ask you another question:

Why do you guys ignore the fact that mail in balloting does undermine the secrecy of the ballot. Mail in balloting 100% should be limited cause of this and it should be limited to people who have a valid reason to not vote in person 

It only undermines the secrecy of the ballot in this fantasy where someone is searching through the mail to see how someone voted.

If you're that concerned about it, then vote in-person. No one is forcing you to vote by mail.

What this is completely bs :

- Liberal members in your households could see how you could vote

- Stuff like voter parties could happen and people could wonder why you don’t show up


Mass mail in voting means social pressures play a much larger role in voting and that is fundamentally undemocratic

[Ferguson97]

What this is completely bs :

- Liberal members in your households could see how you could vote

- Stuff like voter parties could happen and people could wonder why you don’t show up

Mass mail in voting means social pressures play a much larger role in voting and that is fundamentally undemocratic

Voter parties? What are you even talking about? I've never heard of this.

[izixs]

What this is completely bs :

- Liberal members in your households could see how you could vote

- Stuff like voter parties could happen and people could wonder why you don’t show up

Mass mail in voting means social pressures play a much larger role in voting and that is fundamentally undemocratic

Voter parties? What are you even talking about? I've never heard of this.

Strawman arguments are easier to make when based on fantasy you see.

[oldtimer]

The only thing that changes between early voting and election voting is the timing of the campaigns.

Democrats vote by 2-1 margins early, so a Democrat campaign has to spend it's time and effort in the Summer.

Republicans vote by 2-1 margins on election day, so a Republican campaign has to spend it's time and effort in the Autumn.

If they genuinely think they can get defectors from the other party they ought to switch seasons.

Democrats have the upper hand though in case of emergencies like bad weather, I think that they won Nevada just because it was a rare snowstorm on election day.

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

Reform #2 is a non-starter.

If you want to say they have to be post-marked by Election Day, that’s another story. But whether or not your vote counts shouldn’t be determined by how fast or slow the USPS is.

Oregon literally had that rule until they used Covid as an excuse to get rid of it

So then wouldn't that make it basically impossible to vote if you hadn't sent in your ballot a few days before election day? Because there's no in-person voting. That's a terrible system.

[OSR stands with Israel]

Reform #2 is a non-starter.

If you want to say they have to be post-marked by Election Day, that’s another story. But whether or not your vote counts shouldn’t be determined by how fast or slow the USPS is.

Oregon literally had that rule until they used Covid as an excuse to get rid of it

So then wouldn't that make it basically impossible to vote if you hadn't sent in your ballot a few days before election day? Because there's no in-person voting. That's a terrible system.

No , given there are a lot of voter drop boxes in Oregon. So you would be fine as long as if you had your ballot in the drop box by Election Day .

[DaleCooper]

Voter parties? Lol.

[2016]

OSR,
Every State should adopt the Florida State and County Elections System.

I knew even Days before the 2020 Election or the 2022 Midterms how the State would go.

Florida has also an Election Law that Counties have to report their VBM and IP Ballots within 30 Minutes of Polls closing in that particular County. That should be universally done in every State.

Also, there needs to be something adopted universally how to verify VBM Ballots.

It can't be that AZ and NV do it differently then FL, NC, GA, TX, etc.

[Amenhotep Bakari-Sellers]

If Biden is down 3 in NC it's a 303 map we lost NC by 3 in 22 and it's was a 303 map, the polls show Trump ahead are hogwash