California Senate 2024 - Schiff (D) vs Garvey (R)

[Born to Slay. Forced to Work.]

Lee would probably have voted against the war on Japan in WWII, or against the civil war for that matter. It's one thing being a pacifist, it's another one entirely to be a dumb borderline security threat. People like Lee and Massie are the latter.

okey dokey

[President Johnson]

You can't stop BIG SCHIFF.

Can't sink the Pencil Neck!

[Antonio the Sixth]

https://twitter.com/BarbaraLeeForCA/status/1720938804859818065?s=20
In case it wasn't clear before, and I do realize this isn't necessarily a new development but Lee's unequivocally got my support and I've gotta assume whatever progressive grassroots support Porter had is going to be tenuous at best going forward.

Absolutely surreal that "progressive grassroots" would suddenly dump a solid progressive advocate who's been one of the most effective voices in taking the billionaire class to task just because of inane litmus tests on Muh Conflict. If that happens, all lefties will have proved is how myopic and self-sabotaging they really are.

[No War, but the War on Christmas]

https://twitter.com/BarbaraLeeForCA/status/1720938804859818065?s=20
In case it wasn't clear before, and I do realize this isn't necessarily a new development but Lee's unequivocally got my support and I've gotta assume whatever progressive grassroots support Porter had is going to be tenuous at best going forward.

Absolutely surreal that "progressive grassroots" would suddenly dump a solid progressive advocate who's been one of the most effective voices in taking the billionaire class to task just because of inane litmus tests on Muh Conflict. If that happens, all lefties will have proved is how myopic and self-sabotaging they really are.

Eh, this is one of the biggest issues of the moment, so yes, among this field I would say that the Progressive base in particular are looking for policies that differentiate the candidates. Did I say anything about Porter being primaried, ostracized or in any way even having her influence reduced, especially in areas of finance and banking in which she's been extremely effective? No. But the "progressive grassroots" has every right to not support her bid for Senate, she isn't owed their support certainly, so I'm a bit lost as to the reason for your post.

[Antonio the Sixth]

https://twitter.com/BarbaraLeeForCA/status/1720938804859818065?s=20
In case it wasn't clear before, and I do realize this isn't necessarily a new development but Lee's unequivocally got my support and I've gotta assume whatever progressive grassroots support Porter had is going to be tenuous at best going forward.

Absolutely surreal that "progressive grassroots" would suddenly dump a solid progressive advocate who's been one of the most effective voices in taking the billionaire class to task just because of inane litmus tests on Muh Conflict. If that happens, all lefties will have proved is how myopic and self-sabotaging they really are.

Eh, this is one of the biggest issues of the moment, so yes, among this field I would say that the Progressive base in particular are looking for policies that differentiate the candidates. Did I say anything about Porter being primaried, ostracized or in any way even having her influence reduced, especially in areas of finance and banking in which she's been extremely effective? No. But the "progressive grassroots" has every right to not support her bid for Senate, she isn't owed their support certainly, so I'm a bit lost as to the reason for your post.

People have the right to support or not support whoever they want, but I'm going to call them myopic if they end up thumbing their nose at someone who would support their cause on 95% of actually actionable issues because she doesn't toe their preferred line on a largely symbolic one. If Lee was 30 years younger and capable of winning a D vs D runoff I guess I wouldn't mind people picking her over Porter based on this one issue, but those seem like pretty important differences here, certainly more so than their positions on a regional conflict the US has increasingly little influence over.

[No War, but the War on Christmas]

https://twitter.com/BarbaraLeeForCA/status/1720938804859818065?s=20
In case it wasn't clear before, and I do realize this isn't necessarily a new development but Lee's unequivocally got my support and I've gotta assume whatever progressive grassroots support Porter had is going to be tenuous at best going forward.

Absolutely surreal that "progressive grassroots" would suddenly dump a solid progressive advocate who's been one of the most effective voices in taking the billionaire class to task just because of inane litmus tests on Muh Conflict. If that happens, all lefties will have proved is how myopic and self-sabotaging they really are.

Eh, this is one of the biggest issues of the moment, so yes, among this field I would say that the Progressive base in particular are looking for policies that differentiate the candidates. Did I say anything about Porter being primaried, ostracized or in any way even having her influence reduced, especially in areas of finance and banking in which she's been extremely effective? No. But the "progressive grassroots" has every right to not support her bid for Senate, she isn't owed their support certainly, so I'm a bit lost as to the reason for your post.

People have the right to support or not support whoever they want, but I'm going to call them myopic if they end up thumbing their nose at someone who would support their cause on 95% of actually actionable issues because she doesn't toe their preferred line on a largely symbolic one. If Lee was 30 years younger and capable of winning a D vs D runoff I guess I wouldn't mind people picking her over Porter based on this one issue, but those seem like pretty important differences here, certainly more so than their positions on a regional conflict the US has increasingly little influence over.

I'll be honest, as a native born Californian... This is the one state in which I'm just not chuffed for political talent or having a decent bench of progressive candidates. We'll always have that here, so I'd argue this is exactly where we can more than afford to be picky. You're really just cutting straws for your, I presume, preferred candidate.

If it becomes Schiff v. Porter and Lee supporters abstain or something then we can revisit this.

But hey, I say all this as someone who had a Katie Porter signature a few months back. The AIPAC stuff really did bother me, even before all this other stuff broke out, so...

[Not Me, Us]

https://twitter.com/BarbaraLeeForCA/status/1720938804859818065?s=20
In case it wasn't clear before, and I do realize this isn't necessarily a new development but Lee's unequivocally got my support and I've gotta assume whatever progressive grassroots support Porter had is going to be tenuous at best going forward.

Absolutely surreal that "progressive grassroots" would suddenly dump a solid progressive advocate who's been one of the most effective voices in taking the billionaire class to task just because of inane litmus tests on Muh Conflict. If that happens, all lefties will have proved is how myopic and self-sabotaging they really are.

Eh, this is one of the biggest issues of the moment, so yes, among this field I would say that the Progressive base in particular are looking for policies that differentiate the candidates. Did I say anything about Porter being primaried, ostracized or in any way even having her influence reduced, especially in areas of finance and banking in which she's been extremely effective? No. But the "progressive grassroots" has every right to not support her bid for Senate, she isn't owed their support certainly, so I'm a bit lost as to the reason for your post.

People have the right to support or not support whoever they want, but I'm going to call them myopic if they end up thumbing their nose at someone who would support their cause on 95% of actually actionable issues because she doesn't toe their preferred line on a largely symbolic one. If Lee was 30 years younger and capable of winning a D vs D runoff I guess I wouldn't mind people picking her over Porter based on this one issue, but those seem like pretty important differences here, certainly more so than their positions on a regional conflict the US has increasingly little influence over.

Why settle for a candidate who will support our cause 95% of the time when we can get one who supports our cause more, especially on such an important issue? This is not a seat where there is any reason to really favor pragmatism or electability when choosing a candidate, and Lee is better on the issues. I don't hate Porter, but if progressives can't have some standards in California of all places, where can we?

[Antonio the Sixth]

I'll be honest, as a native born Californian... This is the one state in which I'm just not chuffed for political talent or having a decent bench of progressive candidates. We'll always have that here, so I'd argue this is exactly where we can more than afford to be picky. You're really just cutting straws for your, I presume, preferred candidate.

If it becomes Schiff v. Porter and Lee supporters abstain or something then we can revisit this.

But hey, I say all this as someone who had a Katie Porter signature a few months back. The AIPAC stuff really did bother me, even before all this other stuff broke out, so...

California is a state with a stacked progressive bench, sure, but it's also a state with a shrewd Democratic establishment that knows how to say just the right things to just the right people (unlike the NYDP which seems to rely entirely on brute force and complacency). The idea that we can just take a gamble on this one and wait until 2030 is fantastical to me. If Schiff wins, he'll be in that seat for the next 30 years. And sure, he won't be as terrible as Feinstein, but it sure isn't the kind of paradigm shift I think we're both hoping for. I think it'd be a shame if that happened just because progressives were taken in by the fad of the moment and chose to go with the unelectable vanity candidate.

[Arizona Iced Tea]

The biggest problem for Lee is her age. She is 77 and running for an open seat, and it does not help at all that Feinstein died in office a few months ago.

[Хahar 🤔]

California is a state with a stacked progressive bench, sure, but it's also a state with a shrewd Democratic establishment that knows how to say just the right things to just the right people (unlike the NYDP which seems to rely entirely on brute force and complacency).

Unfortunately I have to say this yet again:

A challenge I'm going to make to the posters of this forum is to stop ever comparing California to New York. You can make comparisons to any other elections or any other politicians in any other state, but just don't use New York. Give it a try! If nothing else, it'll make people's analogies more creative.

[All Along The Watchtower]

The biggest problem for Lee is her age. She is 77 and running for an open seat, and it does not help at all that Feinstein died in office a few months ago.

What evidence do you have that California Democrats care?

[Minnesota Mike]

https://twitter.com/ccadelago/status/1726097245194551729

No endorsement, no surprise.

[Mr. Smith]

https://twitter.com/ccadelago/status/1726097245194551729

No endorsement, no surprise.

Was 50+1% needed?

Otherwise, it seems Lee gets the lead, which once again puts the National Apparatus against the State, just like 2018 when Feinstein effectively got Lieberman'd, and just like Lieberman, didn't take a hint and got bailed out by the mainstream cowards.

One thing's for sure, it's going to be quite surreal if Porter of all people still comes out on top.

[Minnesota Mike]

No endorsement, no surprise.

Was 50+1% needed?

Otherwise, it seems Lee gets the lead, which once again puts the National Apparatus against the State, just like 2018 when Feinstein effectively got Lieberman'd, and just like Lieberman, didn't take a hint and got bailed out by the mainstream cowards.

One thing's for sure, it's going to be quite surreal if Porter of all people still comes out on top.

I believe 60% was needed (someone from CA can correct me if I'm wrong). Nobody got close.

I disagree about Porter, while I view Schiff as the frontrunner Porter is far more likely to make the top 2 than Lee IMO.

[Oryxslayer]

No endorsement, no surprise.

Was 50+1% needed?

Otherwise, it seems Lee gets the lead, which once again puts the National Apparatus against the State, just like 2018 when Feinstein effectively got Lieberman'd, and just like Lieberman, didn't take a hint and got bailed out by the mainstream cowards.

One thing's for sure, it's going to be quite surreal if Porter of all people still comes out on top.

I believe 60% was needed (someone from CA can correct me if I'm wrong). Nobody got close.

I disagree about Porter, while I view Schiff as the frontrunner Porter is far more likely to make the top 2 than Lee IMO.

Yes, you needed 60%+1 for the endorsement. AKA it goes to basically the races where there is one official Dem candidate and a bunch of other nobodies.

Here's the other thing, the convention is the furthest thing from a representative sample of the electorate. This is almost always the case anywhere, no matter the party, but it bears repeating.

 In the case of California, the Democratic convention is not entirely dominated by the activists, but they do have a very oversized presence. Look no further than De Leon winning more than 50% in 2018 at the convention, but not the necessary 60%+1.

The other group at the convention is party insiders. AKA, the type of people who would respect the two congressional Reps with decades of tenure. So we basically have a group of politicos most primed for Lee and she underperformed, at least according to the people who were watching this thing. Meanwhile, Schiff overperformed. Which suggests there was a strong north/south divide that counteracted the activist one. Porter performed roughly what the insiders were expecting from this event, maybe a bit better - again suggesting a North/South activist split.

[Kahane's Grave Is A Gender-Neutral Bathroom]

https://twitter.com/BarbaraLeeForCA/status/1720938804859818065?s=20
In case it wasn't clear before, and I do realize this isn't necessarily a new development but Lee's unequivocally got my support and I've gotta assume whatever progressive grassroots support Porter had is going to be tenuous at best going forward.

Absolutely surreal that "progressive grassroots" would suddenly dump a solid progressive advocate who's been one of the most effective voices in taking the billionaire class to task just because of inane litmus tests on Muh Conflict. If that happens, all lefties will have proved is how myopic and self-sabotaging they really are.

Eh, this is one of the biggest issues of the moment, so yes, among this field I would say that the Progressive base in particular are looking for policies that differentiate the candidates. Did I say anything about Porter being primaried, ostracized or in any way even having her influence reduced, especially in areas of finance and banking in which she's been extremely effective? No. But the "progressive grassroots" has every right to not support her bid for Senate, she isn't owed their support certainly, so I'm a bit lost as to the reason for your post.

Yes, BUT WHY IS IT ONE OF THE BIGGEST ISSUES?

There are a myriad of ongoing genocides, none of which the average progressive could name or even remotely care about. Except for Israel.

What this really boils down to- for progressives at least- is the following:

Do you want an effective fighter for leftist causes, or a geriatric activist who hates Jewish people but otherwise has the same views.

[coloradocowboi]

Yes, BUT WHY IS IT ONE OF THE BIGGEST ISSUES?

It is a cipher for colonialism. Even my WASP a** understands that. It's not even the best one IMO because after all we are arguing who is more evil: a right-wing racist Israeli government or an Islamic extremist organization that was originally created by the CIA and another right-wing racist Israeli government to halt Fatah's progress and stop the spread of socialism in the Arab world #missionaccomplished

But I've noticed most of the people asking this question are one or both of the following: 1. Older or 2. White. For young POC, the blatant brutality and how the media/establishment let Israel just get away with it feels like a reminder that their lives matter less to the State and to capitalism...

I personally don't get it, but also am literally descended from KKK members and a man who is almost singularly responsibly for killing off the Delaware Indians. I can only approach it rationally, and from that POV it seems like a silly hill to die on. People say that all the time about LGBTQ issues though - which do affect me - and it enfuriates me. Makes me not want to vote Democratic even....

But this issue definitely cuts in Lee's favor in a high-turnout election. Mexican-Americans and Black Americans dgaf about Israel. If they do, they are at least as likely (proly much more) to understand it as an artifact of colonialism and not get the anti-semitism angle. They don't have Holocaust guilt because pretty much every pogrom in history outside of Ethiopia was caused by white people.

And I bring all of this up just to mention once again that California is demographically and culturally v different from the USA as a whole, and I think this Palestine issue could be potent for Barbara Lee. Especially when it comes to mobilizing progressives, peeling them off from Porter, and getting into the top 2. It doesn't matter why it's important or whether us internet pundits think it should be. It obviously is, and she should be trying to capitalize off it.

In the general tho... I would advise her to be cautious. This is one of the few issues that Schiff could use to win back white Republicans who hate his guts. The "decolonization" angle will scare them off. She needs to keep the focus on: 1. Crimes against humanity, which sorry folks Israel is committing. And 2. The cost both diplomatically and financially of funding their constant oppression of the Palestinians.

There are a myriad of ongoing genocides, none of which the average progressive could name or even remotely care about. Except for Israel.

What this really boils down to- for progressives at least- is the following:

Do you want an effective fighter for leftist causes, or a geriatric activist who hates Jewish people but otherwise has the same views.

I wish you guys would stop fighting caricatures of progressives and have a good faith conversation with one though. It's like you pick the most ignorant college student and act like that's representative of Marxism-Leninism, a 150 year old school of sociology. I never hear y'all engaging point-by-point with actual theory or even just a Jacobin article. Just Susie so and so with blue hair...

"Progressive" news like Jacobin has covered Armenia (as well as Azerbaijan's ties to Israel...), Modi's persecution of Muslims, the Rohingya far more than any mainstream outlet I consume. I'd be happy to write a long post for you explaining why the ongoing treatment of Native Americans by our government technically STILL constitutes genocide and cite my sources while I'm at it.

Finally, tho certainly not for the last time, anti-Zionism is not anti-semitism and to assert so is actually deeply anti-semitic itself. Jewish people do not owe loyalty to any State just because of who they are. It is never lost on me that at the time when the scholars comprising the Frankfurt School of Marxist social inquiry were fleeing the Nazis that the same "classical liberal" types who today call anything less than a full-throated endorsement of Israeli military policy "anti-semitic" were silent. I know my history and I know what side I stand on - with hundreds of Jewish intellectuals deeply concerned with their community's liberation and deeply familiar with anti-Jewish violence, so I resent a lot of what you're saying here because it's ahistorical and seemingly just another fig leaf in the long history of anti-leftism, which is itself deeply entangled with the history of anti-semitism.

[brucejoel99]

https://twitter.com/BarbaraLeeForCA/status/1730637737101873623

[Secretary of State Liberal Hack]

Yes, BUT WHY IS IT ONE OF THE BIGGEST ISSUES?

It is a cipher for colonialism. Even my WASP a** understands that. It's not even the best one IMO because after all we are arguing who is more evil: a right-wing racist Israeli government or an Islamic extremist organization that was originally created by the CIA and another right-wing racist Israeli government to halt Fatah's progress and stop the spread of socialism in the Arab world #missionaccomplished

Are you actually a professor, because this one of the dumbest most historically illiterate things I've seen on this forum and is a prime example of why American leftist political thought has so little success. The extent of CIA influence in the creation of the Muslim brotherhood is third order.

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

https://twitter.com/BarbaraLeeForCA/status/1730637737101873623

Bragging about an endorsement from one of the most blatantly corrupt members of Congress?

[Sir Mohamed]

https://twitter.com/BarbaraLeeForCA/status/1730637737101873623

Bragging about an endorsement from one of the most blatantly corrupt members of Congress?

The exact number of votes that will switch as a result: 0.

[coloradocowboi]

Yes, BUT WHY IS IT ONE OF THE BIGGEST ISSUES?

It is a cipher for colonialism. Even my WASP a** understands that. It's not even the best one IMO because after all we are arguing who is more evil: a right-wing racist Israeli government or an Islamic extremist organization that was originally created by the CIA and another right-wing racist Israeli government to halt Fatah's progress and stop the spread of socialism in the Arab world #missionaccomplished

Are you actually a professor, because this one of the dumbest most historically illiterate things I've seen on this forum and is a prime example of why American leftist political thought has so little success. The extent of CIA influence in the creation of the Muslim brotherhood is third order.

I love how you bring no facts, just ad hominem insults and some weird obsession/familiarity with my previous posts.

Unlike you, instead of insults I have sources for my opinions which is probably why I am a college professor and you're just crying about it on the internet.

And this just furthers my point: moderate, pro-establishment people in here whine about how leftists are "out of touch" just because we maybe know something that you don't or have a different perspective. Then you same people ask why we don't turn out to vote or why we voted in Rashida Tlaib. It's cuz we disagree and you can't even fathom the disagreement because of your anger and hubris lol.

Read up on all this and then come back to talk to me like a grown adult. And for the love of God please don't tell me Haaretz or the Times of Israel is a "leftwing biased source" or something. Y'all move the football constantly, which is probably why I'm defending myself from personal attacks and you got upvoted despite saying absolutely nothing of communicative value.

(PS - I have never understood how linking sources works here and have even been moderated for doing it wrong, so hopefully this works but I'm happy to provide sources cuz again I have more than insults and name-calling to prove my point here)

https://theintercept.com/2018/02/19/hamas-israel-palestine-conflict/

https://www.democracynow.org/2023/10/20/divide_and_rule_how_israel_helped

https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/2023-10-20/ty-article-opinion/.premium/a-brief-history-of-the-netanyahu-hamas-alliance/0000018b-47d9-d242-abef-57ff1be90000


Finally, I'll just say that as someone more center left than leftist, I have been pushed into a corner on this issue which is exactly why I would vote for Barbara Lee. The notion that somehow you are either pro-Israel or pro-terrorism is the exact kind of false equivalence that turns people off pro-Israel advocacy. I am so tired of Zionists getting an exception to the rules about civility not only on this forum but every day life. Go ahead and insult my intelligence, because if that's all you have to say than maybe you're the one who is historically (or otherwise) illiterate not me

[Secretary of State Liberal Hack]

Yes, BUT WHY IS IT ONE OF THE BIGGEST ISSUES?

It is a cipher for colonialism. Even my WASP a** understands that. It's not even the best one IMO because after all we are arguing who is more evil: a right-wing racist Israeli government or an Islamic extremist organization that was originally created by the CIA and another right-wing racist Israeli government to halt Fatah's progress and stop the spread of socialism in the Arab world #missionaccomplished

Are you actually a professor, because this one of the dumbest most historically illiterate things I've seen on this forum and is a prime example of why American leftist political thought has so little success. The extent of CIA influence in the creation of the Muslim brotherhood is third order.

I love how you bring no facts, just ad hominem insults and some weird obsession/familiarity with my previous posts.

Unlike you, instead of insults I have sources for my opinions which is probably why I am a college professor and you're just crying about it on the internet.

And this just furthers my point: moderate, pro-establishment people in here whine about how leftists are "out of touch" just because we maybe know something that you don't or have a different perspective. Then you same people ask why we don't turn out to vote or why we voted in Rashida Tlaib. It's cuz we disagree and you can't even fathom the disagreement because of your anger and hubris lol.

Read up on all this and then come back to talk to me like a grown adult. And for the love of God please don't tell me Haaretz or the Times of Israel is a "leftwing biased source" or something. Y'all move the football constantly, which is probably why I'm defending myself from personal attacks and you got upvoted despite saying absolutely nothing of communicative value.

(PS - I have never understood how linking sources works here and have even been moderated for doing it wrong, so hopefully this works but I'm happy to provide sources cuz again I have more than insults and name-calling to prove my point here)

https://theintercept.com/2018/02/19/hamas-israel-palestine-conflict/

https://www.democracynow.org/2023/10/20/divide_and_rule_how_israel_helped

https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/2023-10-20/ty-article-opinion/.premium/a-brief-history-of-the-netanyahu-hamas-alliance/0000018b-47d9-d242-abef-57ff1be90000


Finally, I'll just say that as someone more center left than leftist, I have been pushed into a corner on this issue which is exactly why I would vote for Barbara Lee. The notion that somehow you are either pro-Israel or pro-terrorism is the exact kind of false equivalence that turns people off pro-Israel advocacy. I am so tired of Zionists getting an exception to the rules about civility not only on this forum but every day life. Go ahead and insult my intelligence, because if that's all you have to say than maybe you're the one who is historically (or otherwise) illiterate not me

When you post something with the intellectual rigor of an anti-vax or 9/11 conspiracy theory then expect harsh words. I'm sick of this self-victimizing complex that leftists have when called out on blatant lies they spew. I'm not even a zionist or a supporter of israel, but you just make up bs conspiracy theories in an attempt to preserve a binary good-vs-evil narrative .whole claim that the islamic brotherhood was created by the CIA to destroy Fatah's credibility is just blatantly untrue. The founding of the islamic brotherhood pre-dates the establishment of Fatah by some 31 years.

All your links make a different claim that Israel tacitly left hamas alone and hoped to play divide conquer between the palestinians. That's morally wrong and was a horrible idea as recent events show, but that's a very different claim from the one you making that it's some sort of proxy for the CIA or right-wing isralei goverment gone roughe.

[Oryxslayer]

https://twitter.com/CaliforniaLabor/status/1732164196295639379?t=D-JnoOblS5PZ_9Y...

I'm posting this here cause it came up in my feed, and I found it hilarious how useless this endorsement and statement is. Saying nothing may have legit been more productive.

[With you in spirit]

That's such a good troll endorsement.