Israel General Discussion: Annus Horribilis

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Well this thread is already exactly as much of a disaster as I would expect.

Nah this is not representative. We usually run out the weirdos from the far right and the tankies quite fast. Israel threads are usually very informative and civil.

Ignoring the fascist, government formation is expected to be pretty fast. Bibi wants to do it in 2 weeks. The Haredim are expected to increase their power from the previous Bibi government. Shas, the second biggest party (assuming Smotrich and Ben Gvir split), traditionally took the Home Ministry for Deri, Religious Affairs and another low-level Ministry. I suspect they'll want to take Home for Deri again because that's where he can do corruption the most, but gotta assume they'll want another high profile Ministry (and Religious Affairs, of course). For UTJ, I think they said something about wanting higher profile Ministries too. Rumours say Housing and Construction (Deputy Minister in a Minister's level) for leader Yitzhak Goldknopf (that's gonna be a jawbreaker) because that allows them to favor haredim in housing, and Moshe Gafni will want to return to funnel money to haredi causes in the Finance Committee. But I gotta assume they'll want another Ministry (or Deputy Ministry with Minister's power yada yada) this time.

For RZ, Smotrich is aiming for one of the big 3 Ministries- Foreign Affairs (very unlikely, I think even he realizes he shouldn't be the face of Israel), Finance or Defense. My guess is he slightly prefers Defence, but probably won't get it because Bibi wouldn't want him in a national security position. So Smotrich is probably our next Finance Minister.

As a side note, Lots of wealthy straight "liberals" are cheering him on for this position because he'll be "responsible" (read: extremely capitalistic for everyone except settlers who'll get fat welfare). They also liked his tenure as Transportation Minister because he answered texts and pretended to work hard (while Michaeli, because she's a shrill leftist woman, gets no credit for overdue longterm investments in public transportation and is mocked for only doing feminist virtue signaling).

Anyway, I assume RZ will want another medium-level Ministry for its 2nd place, Ofir Sofer, and possibly even a third one for Simcha Rothman or Orit Strook. In Otzma, Ben Gvir seems adamant on getting Internal Security, and it seems like Likud is leaning towards granting his request. No other Ministry where I can really see him, he only cares about muscle. However Otzma probably gets a second Ministry for its number 2, some nazi homophobe or another named Itzhak Wasserlauf. Idk yet which one it'll be.

In Likud, as usual, they'll fight for the scraps Netanyahu leaves them. Yariv Levin as Bibi's closest man probably has first choice- he might get Justice if Bibi really decides to go hardcore against the courts, and if not maybe Speaker or Foreign. Miri Regev will probably return to Transportation. Dany Danon wants Knesset Speaker, I think he'll get it only if Bibi's favored (like Levin) get something good. Both Nir Barkat And Yisrael Katz want Finance, but as it'll probably go to Smotrich Bibi will have to find a good consolation prize- maybe the Foreign Ministry (which btw no one seems to want because they know Bibi leaves it to dry and gives no credit to the Minister for anything) or Education. Amir Ohana is another contender for Foreign or another high profile Ministry. Dudi Amsalem is a nuisance who wants Justice, I highly doubt he gets it but Bibi will have to find a consolation price for him. Finally, Yoav Galant is considered likely to get the Defense Ministry. The two Yamina betrayers, Silman and Chikli, are also contenders for Ministries. With so few women, gotta assume Silman gets her wish for the Health Ministry. Idk what Chikli gets- maybe something like Culture and Sports.

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I offer a pan-Israeli-posters regulation: the finance\chancellor\treasury ministry will be named the treasury (closer in translation to the Hebrew word).
It is rumored Deri'i is eying the treasury (and putting one past Lieberman). We'll see. Shas will get the first and biggest slice, then UTJ, then Smotric, then Ben Gvir, then Likud.

The speaker will most likely be Akunis and not Danon as Bibi doesn't trust Danon. Levin is 90% guaranteed Justice. Defence will go to Galant. Foreign Office is a tight one for Bibi, and I'll put my money on Ron Dremer as an outside appointment.

Deal Also an outside appointment sounds problematic for Bibi- will really anger the Likud MKs who are clamouring for scraps. If Ohana\Barkat\Katz don't get Foreign, then they have to get another lower Ministry, which means another Likud MK won't get his, etc. Giving Chikli and Silman Ministries will be angering enough.

As for Treasury, if Deri gets it, and Levin gets Justice, where does that leave Smotrich? Education? Transportation? I think he'll cause problems in that case.

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Rumors that Netanyahu is going to keep the one-seat Noam out of the coalition. Like I thought, they got Avi Maoz to say outrageous homophobic stuff to scare the LGBT community and then pretend to protect us by keeping him out, while giving the worst activist homophobes from the Otzma and RZ list a ton of unchecked powers on issues of health and rights, and gutting the ability of the courts to protect us

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Classic Israeli pink washing. Maoz will be out, Ohana will get the Foreign Office, and internally the government could repress minorities but host a pompous pride parade in Tel Aviv.

Not "pink washing" if Netanyahu keeps his promise and the new government does not roll back any gay rights.

Since when is not rolling back rights an accomplishment to be proud of?

Anyhow my point was that LGBT rights were never under real risk, it’s quite a politically lucrative cow to milk and Israel is a seasoned milkman. Ethnic minorities on the other hand might actually meet adversarial government policy and they don’t enjoy the PR lobby the gay community has.
The pink washing would be parading Ohana around the world as our gay foreign secretary

In addition to that which I totally agree with, LGBT rights will be rolled back. They might not cancel pride parades, but they will let their ultra-homophobic Ministers curb funding and support for the weakest parts of the LGBT community, such as trans people and closeted people. No protection will be offered by the gutted Courts. Slowly, so as to not make too much noise, whatever liberalism Israel had will be eroded. And Arabs will of course be the chief to suffer.

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Ben Gvir posted and then deleted a eulogy for judeo-nazi terrorist Kahana: "Murdered as a martyr", "I had the privilege to learn his writings", "in his yeshivah there was love for everyone"

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Ben Gvir posted and then deleted a eulogy for judeo-nazi terrorist Kahana: "Murdered as a martyr", "I had the privilege to learn his writings", "in his yeshivah there was love for everyone"

Does he lionise Baruch Goldstein as well?

Used to, claims he doesn't anymore. Up to smart people to decide if they believe him...

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Government formation in Israel is, as usual, slow.
The main obstacle is that Smotric wants one of the Treasury or Defence, when Bibi hates any independent minded people around him (no he does not care about Biden as some suggest).

It appears the incoming coalition will first elect a new speaker and then amend the basic law is some way that will allow Deri'i to be appointed minister despite him recent tax offenses conviction.


Galon announced she steps down as chair of Meretz. It seems everyone wants to see the party die, but perhaps Golan will flex to grab it. Considering the substantial debt the party's in I can't see any benefit in taking it

Are people inside Meretz actually willing to let it go, along with their influence and jobs etc?

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Foreign posters:
This is a thread for the tidbits of everyday Israeli politics. Any profound thoughts on the strategic aspects of the conflict can go into one of a dozen other threads where our "panel of experts" weighs in. Please do not clog this thread with random takes about the conflict.

thank you.

Hey. Reminder!!! Stop conflictposting unless it's relevant current news about Israeli politics. Take your debatesTM elsewhere please.

Anyway, Likud and Noam signed a coalition agreement, MK Avi Maoz will be a Deputy Minister and head an "Agency for Jewish and National identity". So there will be an official government agency whose leader's single most important issue is harassing the LGBTQ community, women etc. I will say part of what he's being given is Nativ, the agency aimed at former Soviet Jews, which he has actual experience on from past activism against the iron curtain.

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Coalition agreements signed so far (chronological order):

1. Likud-Otzma (6 seats): Ben Gvir Minister of National Security (Internal Security with increased authorities) and member of Israel's cabinet. Two more Ministries, Negev and Galilee Development for Itzhak Wasserlauf and Heritage (?) For Amichai Eliyahu, a rabbie with extreme homophobic record who called Merav Michaeli's surrogacy "a baby from Amazon". One Deputy Ministry (Economy). Two Committee chairmanships, Internal Security and the Committee for the Natural Gas Fund. 6 seats, 6 jobs for the Kahanists.
2. Likud-Noam (1 seat): Deputy Ministry in the PM's office for Avi Maoz, and leading the aforementioned new Agency for Jewish and National Identity.

Shas and UTJ are expected soon. UTJ apparently demanded a metro in Bnei Brak which would mean years of delay because of no construction in Shabbat, which at this point is just comical.

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A summary of our new government so far:
- Twice-convicted felon Deri is the Home Minister and also the Minister of Health. Israel does not have a full-time health minister
- The Ministries of Education, Transportation and Defense are torn to pieces and ministers will have no authority.
- Smotrich is the Minister of Finance and is also responsible for the Civil Administration in the West Bank and the coordination of the government's actions in the territories (security coordination with the Palestinians), that is, he controls the West Bank instead of the Minister of Defense.
- All issues of religious and ultra-Orthodox education were expropriated from the Ministry of Education and transferred to sectoral politicians, ditto for the issues of transportation for the ultra-Orthodox. Avi Maoz from Noam gets authority over secular education too.
- Current agreement fully funds haredi schools that do not teach math, English or Hebrew (and thus are useless) as much as normal schools, and forces regional authorities to fund them too (regional authorities already said it means their education systems will collapse).

Israel has no government. Only way to describe them is a cartel of gangs that took power and split the loot between them according to personal interests and greed.

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Oh and yesterday, incoming Finance Minister Smotrich talked about his economic philosophy: "socialism and capitalism were tried, but no one tried this- if we apply the laws of the Torah, we'll have economic prosperity."

Good luck...

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Some of the clauses of the coalition agreement between Likud and UTJ:
- A Rabbinate representative will participate in the Shabbat work permit committee
- Electricity will not be produced on Saturday
- The government will finance Geniza (basically burying instead of trashing) of holy books
- The government will establish and finance bodies that will answer halachic questions received from the public
- The number of gender segregated beaches in the country will be expanded
- Haredi cities will benefit from an additional discount on public transportation
- Budget for ultra-Orthodox culture in the Ministry of Education - at least 100 million
- Affirmative preference will be given to ultra-Orthodox in government companies
- Hospital administrators will be able to prohibit the bringing of bread on Pesach
- More Talmud studies for secular students
- The closure of the Reform Department in the Diaspora Ministry will be considered
- Any government service provided online will also be provided over the phone or face to face (good, actually)
- The kosher phone reform of the previous government will be canceled

Approaching Iran levels. Honestly the electricity part is bizarre to me, I can't imagine them going for it- it's kipuach nefesh, life or death. I guess we'll see.

Likud: "we didn't agree to some of the parts, including electricity in Shabbat and and more segregated beaches", UTJ leader denies Likud's denial: "everything is decided"
So in sum, they agreed on it, someone leaked, and Likud got spooked

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Israeli Youth Lead Turn to the Far Right as Violence Increases

Of course. I've called this for a decade now.

In most countries the youth lean left, but in Israel they are reactionary religious conservatives. It won't be long before gay rights are rolled back there too making Israel even more indistinguishable from the neighbors it constantly claims moral superiority over.

Any evidence on the LGBTQ rights part?

Israel is unique politically on the matter, with those on the left actually less accepting of gay people than those in the center. I would assume part of this is similar to Reagan nostalgia in that older Israelis remember the old leftist governments.

Younger Israelis lean more to the right in terms of hating Palestinians, but the idea that most of them have Iranian-level takes on LGBTQ rights is comical.

I don’t think the Israeli left is less accepting of gay people than the centre. The centre likes their rich gay men and women but I don’t think you’ll find queer/trans issues penetrate right of Meretz. If by left you mean the Arab parties then yes but it’s not on leftist ground like the Greek communists, and calling them left is a little superficial.

Among some of the veterans (me included) there is sometimes a sense where LGBT topics come instead of the Palestinian issue and turns us into a sectarian bloc instead of offering a more comprehensive ideology that can speak to most Israelis on their terms. And a lot of us have a very leftist objection to funding the commodification of children in the third world so rich Israeli gays could form families.

Yeah, saying the center is more pro gay than the left makes no sense and isn't backed by polls.

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According to the agreement between Likud and Otzma, they will repeal the section that cites "racist incitement" as a reason to ban a candidate or party, which is the section used to ban Marzel and Ben Ari. Looking forward to our newest nazi stars next election!

Additionally, journalists Nadav Eyal reported about black lists the Noam party compiled of out LGBT people in the media, in education, government organizations, NGOs and more.

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The next government:
PM - Bibi
Defence - Yoav Galant (Likud)
Foreign office - still undecided. A possible rotation between Cohn and Katz (Likud) where the other one will be the Energy Minister meanwhile.
Justice - Levine (Likud). sh**t hits the fan
Home office + Health - Deri’i Shas
Education- Yoav Kisch (Likud)
National Security (formerly internal security) - Ben Gvir
Housing - Goldknopf (UTJ)
Agriculture - Dichter (Likud)
Transportation - Regev (Likud)
Communication - Kari’i (Likud)
Immigration - Sofer (RZ)
Welfare - Margi (Shas)
Tourism - Haim Katz (Likud)
Economy - Nir Barkat (Likud)
Environment- Idit Sliman (Likud)
Religious affairs - Malchieli (Shas)

There will be numerous other faux ministries of no importance

Speaker - Ohana (Likud)


Edelstein, Amsalem, Danon and Bitan are out of cabinet and will be a pain in Bibi’s arse in the house.


This is hands down the worst government Israel ever had. There will be blood.

I think we could add Gila Gamliel as a potential pain now that he gave Environment to Silman instead of her, no?

Aside from that, full list including minor Ministries:

PM - Bibi
Defence - Yoav Galant (Likud)
Treasury (look Hnv, I'm being a good boy) + Minister in the Defense Ministry (West Bank governor) - Smotrich (RZ)
Justice - Levine (Likud)
Home office + Health - Deri’i (Shas)
Education- Yoav Kisch (Likud)
National Security (formerly internal security) - Ben Gvir (Otzma)
Housing - Goldknopf (UTJ)
Agriculture - Dichter (Likud)
Transportation - Regev (Likud)
Communication - Kari’i (Likud)
Immigration - Sofer (RZ)
Welfare - Margi (Shas)
Tourism - Haim Katz (Likud)
Economy - Nir Barkat (Likud)
Environment- Idit Sliman (Likud)
Religious affairs - Malchieli (Shas)
Social Equality and Diaspora - Chikli (Likud) - homophobe in charge of gay rights, yay!
Culture and Sports - Miki Zohar (Likud)
Science and Technology - Ofir Akunis (Likud)
Jerusalem and Tradition - Meir Porush (UTJ)
Negev and Galilee - Itzhak Waserlauf (Otzma)
Minister for Heritage Issues - Amichai Eliyahu (Otzma)
"National Missions" Minister - Orit Strook (RZ)
Minister in the PM's office: Galit Distel (Likud), very... charming character
Minister in the Education Ministry: Haim Biton (Shas)
Undecided- Foreign, Energy, Intelligence, Regional Cooperation

Several Deputy Ministers as well: Home and Health (Moshe Arbel, Shas), Agriculture (Moshe Abutbul, Shas), Finance (Michal Waldinger, RZ), Transportation+PM's office (Ori Maklev, UTJ), PM's office (Avi Maoz, Noam).

In the Knesset, Amir Ohana will be Speaker, while Edlestein is rumoured to get the coveted Foreign and Defense committee chairmanship, Simcha Rothman will be the Constitution committee chair (sicko), Shas will have the Health and Education committees, and ofc Gafni from UTJ will be the Finance committee chairman.

EDIT: looking like Bibi is tired of Katz, Eli Cohen said he'll be Foreign Minister.

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Full list:

PM - Bibi
Defence - Yoav Galant (Likud)
Treasury (look Hnv, I'm being a good boy) + Minister in the Defense Ministry (West Bank governor) - Smotrich (RZ)
Justice - Levine (Likud)
Home office + Health - Deri’i (Shas)
Education- Yoav Kisch (Likud)
National Security (formerly internal security) - Ben Gvir (Otzma)
Housing - Goldknopf (UTJ)
Agriculture - Dichter (Likud)
Transportation - Regev (Likud)
Communication - Kari’i (Likud)
Immigration - Sofer (RZ)
Welfare - Margi (Shas)
Tourism - Haim Katz (Likud)
Economy - Nir Barkat (Likud)
Environment- Idit Sliman (Likud)
Religious affairs - Malchieli (Shas)
Social Equality and Diaspora - Chikli (Likud) - homophobe in charge of gay rights, yay!
Culture and Sports - Miki Zohar (Likud)
Science and Technology - Ofir Akunis (Likud)
Jerusalem and Tradition - Meir Porush (UTJ)
Negev and Galilee - Itzhak Waserlauf (Otzma)
Minister for Heritage Issues - Amichai Eliyahu (Otzma)
"National Missions" Minister - Orit Strook (RZ)
Minister in the PM's office: Galit Distel (Likud), very... charming character
Minister in the Education Ministry: Haim Biton (Shas)
Strategic Affairs - Ron Dermer (GOP)

Several Deputy Ministers as well: Home and Health (Moshe Arbel, Shas), Agriculture (Moshe Abutbul, Shas), Finance (Michal Waldinger, RZ), Transportation+PM's office (Ori Maklev, UTJ), PM's office (Avi Maoz, Noam).

In the Knesset, Amir Ohana will be Speaker, while Edlestein is rumoured to get the coveted Foreign and Defense committee chairmanship, Simcha Rothman will be the Constitution committee chair (sicko), Shas will have the Health and Education committees, and ofc Gafni from UTJ will be the Finance committee chairman.

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So it appears that Netanyahu will appoint Gila Gamliel as Intelligence Minister. Honestly I'm confused - she reportedly refused to be Social Equality Minister after Environmental Protection was taken from her, and it's much more influential than Intelligence, a basically meaningless role. She'd have far more influence as a slightly-rebelious MK if she banded with Bitan, Amsalem, Edlestein and Danon to get some concessions.

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Fun stat- the government will have 4 women out of 32. 3 of them in bullsh**t roles, only Regev in a real Ministry (transportation)

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Update on Israel's new government the past few days:
- Otzma MK called for arresting Lapid and Gantz for treason
- Other Otzma MK said "someone who murders an Arab should go to prison, someone who murders a Jew should be killed"
- Likud MK said he prefers a Jewish murderer (Yigal Amir, in that context) to an Arab murderer (reasoning for taking away the citizenship from Palestinian terrorists and not Yigal Amir)
- Ben Gvir directed the police to get more violent with anti-government protests following a peaceful and successful protest in Saturday

So far it's all talk, but as hnv said... does not bode well. As I am without a car attending protests isn't easy for me but I'll definitely try to attend as many as possible in the future.

Edit: Amichai Eliyahu, the so-called "Heritage Minister" (I piss on his type of heritage personally) supports the MK's statement about Lapid and Gantz.

[America Needs R'hllor]

Update on Israel's new government the past few days:
- Otzma MK called for arresting Lapid and Gantz for treason
- Other Otzma MK said "someone who murders an Arab should go to prison, someone who murders a Jew should be killed"
- Likud MK said he prefers a Jewish murderer (Yigal Amir, in that context) to an Arab murderer (reasoning for taking away the citizenship from Palestinian terrorists and not Yigal Amir)
- Ben Gvir directed the police to get more violent with anti-government protests following a peaceful and successful protest in Saturday

So far it's all talk, but as hnv said... does not bode well. As I am without a car attending protests isn't easy for me but I'll definitely try to attend as many as possible in the future.

Edit: Amichai Eliyahu, the so-called "Heritage Minister" (I piss on his type of heritage personally) supports the MK's statement about Lapid and Gantz.

And declared the Palestinian flag a terrorist symbol.

Yep. Though this is actually not entirely new - the police and military have been confiscation and taking down Palestinian flags in Israel and even the West Bank for a while now. This is sporadically enforced and inconsistent from what I've seen (for example not enforced in most of yesterday's protests), but still obviously a grave attack on free speech.

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Shocked that Hnv still didn't comment on this legal matter, so I'll have to suffice:

Israeli supreme court ruled that Aryeh Deri can't serve as a Minister because as part of his plea deal he promised to leave politics. Now the ball is in the government's hands - Shas hinted they'll collapse the government if Deri isn't Minister, so this might spiral into a constitutional crisis.

Chief Justice Esther Hayuth made a girlboss move on the government - they didn't just rule it's extremely unreasonable to let Deri back to a Ministry (as expected) but also that he broke his word to the court when he claimed he's leaving politics to get a sweet plea deal and then claimed he didn't actually mean to retire. This means that the government's planned course of action - abolishing the non reasonability cause for supreme court decisions - won't save Deri because they also used a doctrine called "judicial paralysis" which says a person cannot use a legal argument (here- "I never meant to retire") after using a contradicting argument earlier ("I'm leaving politics"). There is pretty much no legal way for the government to keep Deri as Minister now. Game on.

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There was a shooting at a Jerusalem synagogue. 5 killed, ten victims total including injured. That's not including the shooter who was "neutralized".

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-64430491

Seven dead now. This has just handed the Israelis a casus belli for another round of attacks on Gaza.

This is the wrong way to look at this. Israel usually has no interest to attack Gaza (of course, with this government you never know). What usually happens is Israel starts a round of arrests and special operations in the West Bank, the Gaza organizations respond with missiles, Israel strikes back, and it begins. Certainly could happen again.

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Will there be a shred of accountability now that their god leader is running things or...?
https://www.timesofisrael.com/settlers-said-to-rampage-in-huwara-after-deadly-attack-set-fire-to-cars-and-homes/

The government response ranged from "we understand the anger but taking the law into your hands is bad" (Bibi, Gallant) to liking a tweet supporting this then issuing a meek condemnation (Smotrich) to silence and implicit support (Ben Gvir).

MK Tzvi Fogel (Otzma) openly praised the pogrom in Huwarah and says he "likes to see it", several RZ MKs join lawless settlers in taking over a settlement the IDF has already cleared several times, Minister Ben Gvir set to give statement on in a few hours from said illegal settlement and hasn't commented on the pogrom yet.

This is extremely, extremely grim. The blood of both Jews and Arabs is on the settler's hands. At this point I don't even care about bibi's corruption, I just want a unity government without RZ that, while I won't support it politically, will at least bring calm and reach an agreement on settlement construction freeze with the Americans. I'm not willing to die for these people.

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This government is going to fall by the end of June. Mark my words.

Where's the will for it though? I can't see any party who would gain:
- Likud are in power, and might very well lose a re-do
- The haredim can't realistically expect any better outcome than this government
- RZ can't expect any better jobs, authorities and offices than they have in this government

Who will break the government?

[America Needs R'hllor]

This government is going to fall by the end of June. Mark my words.

Where's the will for it though? I can't see any party who would gain:
- Likud are in power, and might very well lose a re-do
- The haredim can't realistically expect any better outcome than this government
- RZ can't expect any better jobs, authorities and offices than they have in this government

Who will break the government?

Either Ben Gvir skips to play the “they held my hands and I couldn’t deal with terror”, or they simply can’t pass a budget considering the insane amounts the Haredi and Ben Gvir demand with the rest of the budgetary commitments. Together with the growing protests and intensifying economic situation they will simply disintegrate trying to pass a budget.

Will do the closest a non-religious man can do to praying for this.