Israel General Discussion: Annus Horribilis

[Hnv1]

Looking at the reform I don’t get what the massive opposition is given that it would still result in less say by politicians on who gets to be on the judicial branch than here in the US where every judicial appointment is made by the president and then has to be approved by the senate .

Mmmm. like. you. know. maybe. the. US. legal. system. is. like. really. really. bad?

It's a slippery slope to that abysmal abomination you yanks call a justice system, we're not willing to accept even a minor politicization of the judicial branch.

How do you put checks on the judicial system though if judges and lawyers can effectively have the most say who fills vacancies?

You guys unlike us dont even have a written constitution so that gives the Supreme Court more power as at least here in the US , the Supreme Court has to make their rulings on the basis of a written constitution while in Israel that does not seem to be the case which effectively can make your Supreme Court a Super Legislature.
 
Checks and Balances is one of the best ways to defend liberty and yes we do that better than any nation on earth despite the hate we and our system seem to get.

What a nonissue jeez. Let's start naming all the dictatorships that began with the executive branch overreaching. now let's compare it with the tyrannies led by the judiciary. oh, wait there are none!

We give politicians input, but the bottom line is that we want the nomination process to be professional, and we cultivate a liberal ethos among jurists.

Political power, of the harmful type that leads to persecution and human rights abuse, is held by the executive and legislative branches. not the judiciary. They are the ones that need to be checked, the judiciary requires only open dialogue.

[jaichind]

If I were Netanyahu I would push for a vote on the reform bill ASAP and indicate that if it failed he will call for new elections and let the electorate decide if they want to vote for a majority that would enact these reforms.

[Logical]

If I were Netanyahu I would simply flee to the US and give speaking tours at CPAC or whatever like Bolsonaro did instead of this.

[Hnv1]

If I were Netanyahu I would push for a vote on the reform bill ASAP and indicate that if it failed he will call for new elections and let the electorate decide if they want to vote for a majority that would enact these reforms.

LOL. there is absolutely no way Bibi takes this to the people, he will get absolutely smashed in the polls. in fact, he's already damaged goods.

[Antonio the Sixth]

Kudos to the Israeli people. An awe-inspiring show a strength by civil society that I hope will serve as an example for all countries where democracy and the rule of law are under attack. Hopefully this is the beginning of the end for Bibi and his whole authoritarian ethnonationalist political project.

[oldtimer]

Looking at the reform I don’t get what the massive opposition is given that it would still result in less say by politicians on who gets to be on the judicial branch than here in the US where every judicial appointment is made by the president and then has to be approved by the senate .

Mmmm. like. you. know. maybe. the. US. legal. system. is. like. really. really. bad?

It's a slippery slope to that abysmal abomination you yanks call a justice system, we're not willing to accept even a minor politicization of the judicial branch.

How do you put checks on the judicial system though if judges and lawyers can effectively have the most say who fills vacancies?

You guys unlike us dont even have a written constitution so that gives the Supreme Court more power as at least here in the US , the Supreme Court has to make their rulings on the basis of a written constitution while in Israel that does not seem to be the case which effectively can make your Supreme Court a Super Legislature.
 
Checks and Balances is one of the best ways to defend liberty and yes we do that better than any nation on earth despite the hate we and our system seem to get.

Every country - except Poland - has some checks and balances on government appointing judges. The US system is terrible, but even there you have a separate congress and President. Other countries have a tradition of appointing according to recommendations of a professional committee. Israel's parliamentary system means the coalition controls the government. If you give the coalition full control of appointing even 1 Supreme Court judge per term, the supreme court ceases to have independence. Under the current reform there will be one (1) branch - the coalition.

Greece also has a parliamentary government that appoints the judiciary.

[Hnv1]

Not over. The right is trying to marshal their people to Jerusalem and Bibi is thinking of going through. He’s playing a very dangerous game

[lfromnj]

I do wonder how many of the American posters here who oppose the reform also support packing SCOTUS

[H.E. VOLODYMYR ZELENKSYY]

I do wonder how many of the American posters here who oppose the reform also support packing SCOTUS

Probably a lot of them, since Trump and Netanyahu are best buddies.

[Gass3268]

I do wonder how many of the American posters here who oppose the reform also support packing SCOTUS

McConnell already packed the court when they didn't allow a vote in 2016.

[Cashew]

I do wonder how many of the American posters here who oppose the reform also support packing SCOTUS

Meh, I don't like Netanyahu but something needed to be done, a shame it turned out to be him. It seems like parliamentary supremacy should be the norm in a country without a written constitution.

[Angel of Death]

So where's Bibi?

[Hnv1]

So where's Bibi?

Physically? He's in the Knesset atm trying to appease Ben Gvir

[Hnv1]

Otzma agree to postpone the legislation in exchange for Ben Gvir getting a private militia.

 that. I’m heading out to protest.

[Okay, maybe Mike Johnson is a competent parliamentarian.]

Otzma agree to postpone the legislation in exchange for Ben Gvir getting a private militia.

 that. I’m heading out to protest.

I can't help but feel that this is or will be or would be quite a few alufs' reaction to this idea as well.

[Darthpi – Anti-Florida Activist]

Otzma agree to postpone the legislation in exchange for Ben Gvir getting a private militia.

 that. I’m heading out to protest.

This government needs to be brought down before full-scale ethnic cleansing and civil war break out. Because that's what a Kahanist-run militia would be doing.

[Sestak]

state sanctioned Kahanist army. What a ing sh**tshow.

[No War, but the War on Christmas]

Yeah that's certainly a twist; and just another example for why any cooperation with the anti-democratic hard-right/religious extremists is always a mistake, that will come back to bite you, as has been proven throughout history again and again.

It isn't possible to build a healthy, modern society on exclusionist values.

[OSR stands with Israel]

Good of Netanyahu to not back down. He may lose now, but it is better to lose with conviction and courage than to surrender without taking a stand.

Nice to see it confirmed that the modern GOP is actually hostile to democracy.

This proposal is by definition making the judicial process more democratic. Now you can argue that’s a bad thing due to a nature of what a judiciary deals with but please stop with these nonsense talking points .

[Upper Canada Tory]

Good of Netanyahu to not back down. He may lose now, but it is better to lose with conviction and courage than to surrender without taking a stand.

Nice to see it confirmed that the modern GOP is actually hostile to democracy.

This proposal is by definition making the judicial process more democratic. Now you can argue that’s a bad thing due to a nature of what a judiciary deals with but please stop with these nonsense talking points .

One of the main problems with Israeli democracy that contribute to the relatively excessive power of the Supreme Court, but at the same time make it justifiable to preserve Israel's liberal democratic system, is the lack of checks and balances in Israel, and by extension, the lack of a constitution. One of the only existing checks and balances in Israel's system is the Supreme Court - without it, Israel would essentially be under the majority rule of a unicameral legislature in a single branch of government. A lot of the debate around this judicial overhaul and override clause ignores this and gives rise to misleading comparisons (such as the fact that Supreme Court judges in the US are confirmed by votes in the House and the Senate or the fact that Canada has a 'notwithstanding clause' in its constitution). 'Democratizing' the judiciary, which is supposed to be an independent branch of government, means nothing when the legislative branch can already legislate (mostly) without the limits of a constitution or other houses or branches of government. If judicial overreach is a problem in Israel, then work on implementing a clear set of checks and balances, or else the unwritten constitution will inevitably be largely left up to the interpretation of the courts.

[OSR stands with Israel]

Good of Netanyahu to not back down. He may lose now, but it is better to lose with conviction and courage than to surrender without taking a stand.

Nice to see it confirmed that the modern GOP is actually hostile to democracy.

This proposal is by definition making the judicial process more democratic. Now you can argue that’s a bad thing due to a nature of what a judiciary deals with but please stop with these nonsense talking points .

One of the main problems with Israeli democracy that contribute to the relatively excessive power of the Supreme Court, but at the same time make it justifiable to preserve Israel's liberal democratic system, is the lack of checks and balances in Israel, and by extension, the lack of a constitution. One of the only existing checks and balances in Israel's system is the Supreme Court - without it, Israel would essentially be under the majority rule of a unicameral legislature in a single branch of government. A lot of the debate around this judicial overhaul and override clause ignores this and gives rise to misleading comparisons (such as the fact that Supreme Court judges in the US are confirmed by votes in the House and the Senate or the fact that Canada has a 'notwithstanding clause' in its constitution). 'Democratizing' the judiciary, which is supposed to be an independent branch of government, means nothing when the legislative branch can already legislate (mostly) without the limits of a constitution or other houses or branches of government. If judicial overreach is a problem in Israel, then work on implementing a clear set of checks and balances, or else the unwritten constitution will inevitably be largely left up to the interpretation of the courts.

Yeah my issue with the current system is without a written constitution, how do you stop the judiciary from basically just interpreting the law however they really want . So some reform I think has to be made , and maybe yes this is a bad reform given the circumstances in Israel but I also think a judiciary should also have checks placed on it .

[Upper Canada Tory]

Good of Netanyahu to not back down. He may lose now, but it is better to lose with conviction and courage than to surrender without taking a stand.

Nice to see it confirmed that the modern GOP is actually hostile to democracy.

This proposal is by definition making the judicial process more democratic. Now you can argue that’s a bad thing due to a nature of what a judiciary deals with but please stop with these nonsense talking points .

One of the main problems with Israeli democracy that contribute to the relatively excessive power of the Supreme Court, but at the same time make it justifiable to preserve Israel's liberal democratic system, is the lack of checks and balances in Israel, and by extension, the lack of a constitution. One of the only existing checks and balances in Israel's system is the Supreme Court - without it, Israel would essentially be under the majority rule of a unicameral legislature in a single branch of government. A lot of the debate around this judicial overhaul and override clause ignores this and gives rise to misleading comparisons (such as the fact that Supreme Court judges in the US are confirmed by votes in the House and the Senate or the fact that Canada has a 'notwithstanding clause' in its constitution). 'Democratizing' the judiciary, which is supposed to be an independent branch of government, means nothing when the legislative branch can already legislate (mostly) without the limits of a constitution or other houses or branches of government. If judicial overreach is a problem in Israel, then work on implementing a clear set of checks and balances, or else the unwritten constitution will inevitably be largely left up to the interpretation of the courts.

Yeah my issue with the current system is without a written constitution, how do you stop the judiciary from basically just interpreting the law however they really want . So some reform I think has to be made , and maybe yes this is a bad reform given the circumstances in Israel but I also think a judiciary should also have checks placed on it .

I would agree that a judiciary should also have checks placed on it, however not as extensive as the ones proposed in Israel's current legislation.

[Absentee Voting Ghost of Ruin]

Good of Netanyahu to not back down. He may lose now, but it is better to lose with conviction and courage than to surrender without taking a stand.

Nice to see it confirmed that the modern GOP is actually hostile to democracy.

This proposal is by definition making the judicial process more democratic. Now you can argue that’s a bad thing due to a nature of what a judiciary deals with but please stop with these nonsense talking points .

At its core democracy means that government belongs (and is responsible to) the public as a body, not to some sub-set thereof (whether that sub-set is one king, many oligarchs, or one political party is beside the point),

What Netanyahu is very obviously doing here - allowing simple majority to over-ride the court, and his government to potentially stack the court - is destructive to rule of law, and anti-democratic (much as when Republicans do similar things to stack courts and erode rule of law in the US). That's why people are protesting - because its destructive and obvious.

[Torrain]

Yeah my issue with the current system is without a written constitution, how do you stop the judiciary from basically just interpreting the law however they really want . So some reform I think has to be made , and maybe yes this is a bad reform given the circumstances in Israel but I also think a judiciary should also have checks placed on it .

But you do appreciate that if these "checks" are approved, they're removing some of the only checks and balances against the Knesset?

[OSR stands with Israel]

Yeah my issue with the current system is without a written constitution, how do you stop the judiciary from basically just interpreting the law however they really want . So some reform I think has to be made , and maybe yes this is a bad reform given the circumstances in Israel but I also think a judiciary should also have checks placed on it .

But you do understand that if these "checks" are approved, they're literally removing some of the final checks and balances against the Knesset?

Yeah honestly I don’t know what needs to be done but something should be done . Preferably there would be a written constitution but without that , I don’t really know how checks can be made .

Maybe the reform could be having the president appoint members to the Commission rather than parliament so you keep checks and balances