UK General Discussion: Rishecession

[TheTide]

Wasn't she seen as a Kinnockite (well, Soft Left anyway) candidate in the 1989 by-election? I think she always retained the troublemaking instincts of her IMG days. She nominated both John McDonnell and Jeremy Corbyn for the leadership IIRC.

[JimJamUK]

Wasn't she seen as a Kinnockite (well, Soft Left anyway) candidate in the 1989 by-election? I think she always retained the troublemaking instincts of her IMG days. She nominated both John McDonnell and Jeremy Corbyn for the leadership IIRC.

At the 2017 election she presented herself as a Corbynite fighting the Tory-lite Lib Dems. I think she still considers herself Labour inclined, but it’s hard to tell since her output seems to consist almost entirely of hard Brexit and hard unionism these days.

[LabourJersey]

https://twitter.com/TUVonline/status/1776526536134279202

Nightmare blunt rotation.

At an Orange Hall, no less!

[Flyersfan232]

Wasn't she seen as a Kinnockite (well, Soft Left anyway) candidate in the 1989 by-election? I think she always retained the troublemaking instincts of her IMG days. She nominated both John McDonnell and Jeremy Corbyn for the leadership IIRC.

At the 2017 election she presented herself as a Corbynite fighting the Tory-lite Lib Dems. I think she still considers herself Labour inclined, but it’s hard to tell since her output seems to consist almost entirely of hard Brexit and hard unionism these days.

fetterman?

[TheTide]

Wasn't she seen as a Kinnockite (well, Soft Left anyway) candidate in the 1989 by-election? I think she always retained the troublemaking instincts of her IMG days. She nominated both John McDonnell and Jeremy Corbyn for the leadership IIRC.

At the 2017 election she presented herself as a Corbynite fighting the Tory-lite Lib Dems. I think she still considers herself Labour inclined, but it’s hard to tell since her output seems to consist almost entirely of hard Brexit and hard unionism these days.

fetterman?

Tulsi Gabbard is the better parallel.

[GoTfan]

Wasn't she seen as a Kinnockite (well, Soft Left anyway) candidate in the 1989 by-election? I think she always retained the troublemaking instincts of her IMG days. She nominated both John McDonnell and Jeremy Corbyn for the leadership IIRC.

At the 2017 election she presented herself as a Corbynite fighting the Tory-lite Lib Dems. I think she still considers herself Labour inclined, but it’s hard to tell since her output seems to consist almost entirely of hard Brexit and hard unionism these days.

fetterman?

Tulsi Gabbard is the better parallel.

Mark Latham?

[MayorCarcetti]

https://twitter.com/TUVonline/status/1776526536134279202
Nightmare blunt rotation.

At an Orange Hall, no less!

On that note, it's also quite interesting that Ann Widdecombe, a Catholic will be there too. Might be the first one to ever step inside those doors!

[Torrain]

https://twitter.com/TUVonline/status/1776526536134279202
Nightmare blunt rotation.

At an Orange Hall, no less!

On that note, it's also quite interesting that Ann Widdecombe, a Catholic will be there too. Might be the first one to ever step inside those doors!

Only Nixon could go to China. Maybe only Widdecombe can go to the Orange Hall? /s

Always thought it was kind of telling that she talks about her two defections (party and church), in very similar language. She tells very similar "it was the last straw" anecdotes about both (brexit and the ordination of women, etc etc).

It's odd - she still seems to want to be taken seriously, (no one buys an entire collection of Hansard volumes, at the price they go for, to use a backdrop for media interviews unless they're incredibly image-conscious), despite her reality TV and HIGNFY stint. Wonder if she regrets leaning into the idea of herself as a figure of fun.

[TheTide]

https://twitter.com/TUVonline/status/1776526536134279202
Nightmare blunt rotation.

At an Orange Hall, no less!

On that note, it's also quite interesting that Ann Widdecombe, a Catholic will be there too. Might be the first one to ever step inside those doors!

Only Nixon could go to China. Maybe only Widdecombe can go to the Orange Hall? /s

Always thought it was kind of telling that she talks about her two defections (party and church), in very similar language. She tells very similar "it was the last straw" anecdotes about both (brexit and the ordination of women, etc etc).

It's odd - she still seems to want to be taken seriously, (no one buys an entire collection of Hansard volumes, at the price they go for, to use a backdrop for media interviews unless they're incredibly image-conscious), despite her reality TV and HIGNFY stint. Wonder if she regrets leaning into the idea of herself as a figure of fun.

Incidentally, she held a minority position within the Tory Party on the issue of hunting just as Hoey did within Labour. That is, there were/are on opposing sides of the issue.

[Torrain]

Incidentally, she held a minority position within the Tory Party on the issue of hunting just as Hoey did within Labour. That is, there were/are on opposing sides of the issue.

*sigh* Of course Widdecombe's anti-hunting and pro-death penalty. Not sure why I'd expect anything else from her, but the whole "hunting is perfomative cruelty, but we should hang our fellow man to make an example for those scurrilous working classes" thing is such a surreal position.

It is interesting how she and Hooey mirror each other.

Certainly, Hooey being pro-hunting doesn't surprise me. Maybe it's family experience bleeding through (my father's a County Down man who spent a disproportionate amount of his adolescence snaring and fishing, and *his* father was no different), but I've always assumed that NI was fairly traditional on that front, certainly long past the formative years of Hooey.

[CumbrianLefty]

Hoey was one of only two Labour MPs to vote against a hunting ban when the original bill sponsored by Mike Foster was first voted on in late 1997 - Llin Golding being the other.

(I almost wrote "the late Llin Golding", but a google revealed she is still alive at 91)

[Filuwaúrdjan]

The Leader of the Conservative group on Leicester City Council (who was originally a Labour councillor who defected in 2022) has defected to Labour. This may or may not be related to a recent incident in a car park in which it is alleged that he was assaulted by another Conservative councillor (who has since been suspended).

[YL]

William Wragg has resigned from both his 1922 Committee and select committee roles.

[Torrain]

Slightly surprised it took this long. The Chancellor’s very generous defence of his behaviour suggests he’ll make it to the election, (somehow with the whip intact), unless more comes out.

[CumbrianLefty]

Which could quite easily happen, but I suppose the Tories have little to lose in gambling that it won't.

[Alcibiades]

Not that it makes much of a difference at this point, but I suppose the Tories would also quite like to avoid what would surely be yet another by-election thrashing, given that Wragg only had a majority of 10% over the Lib Dems at the last election.

[Filuwaúrdjan]

Not that it makes much of a difference at this point, but I suppose the Tories would also quite like to avoid what would surely be yet another by-election thrashing, given that Wragg only had a majority of 10% over the Lib Dems at the last election.

That would appear to be the calculation. Bit odd, as you say, given that this parliament has less than a year left to run no matter and that this... mess... is going to be a problem for whoever the new Conservative candidate is, whether in a by-election or at the General Election.

[YL]

Wragg has now resigned the Conservative whip.

[Conservatopia]

The government has apparently killed off the proposed ban on gay/trans conversion therapy.

This might cause a small storm but everyone knew that it would never actually be passed under a Truss or Sunak government so I imagine it's unlikely to help or harm the Conservatives. Regardless of one's position on LGBT issues, and the ins and outs of so-called "conversion therapy", a ban would have been a rather serious threat to religious freedom and free speech and doubts have been raised about it for awhile now.

I expect my celebratory view on this won't be shared by the majority of the forum, but it comes from a free speech viewpoint.

[Torrain]

I think any chance of that passing this parliament died with Johnson’s authority in early 2022. Although it’s unclear how enthusiastic even he was, given the feet-dragging.

No chief whip was going to be enthused by the prospect of a public spat, with Alicia Kearns and Caroline Nokes in the red corner, and JRM and Miriam Cates in the blue corner.

The irony, of course, is that this will almost certainly surface in the next parliament, when Labour fancy watching the Tory backbenches have a public bust-up, while most others (bar the DUP and Duffield) heads through the Aye lobby.

If we end up with a Braverman or Badenoch as LOTO, wonder whether they will whip against, and risk a moment akin to IDS whipping against gay adoption.

[MaxQue]

The government has apparently killed off the proposed ban on gay/trans conversion therapy.

This might cause a small storm but everyone knew that it would never actually be passed under a Truss or Sunak government so I imagine it's unlikely to help or harm the Conservatives. Regardless of one's position on LGBT issues, and the ins and outs of so-called "conversion therapy", a ban would have been a rather serious threat to religious freedom and free speech and doubts have been raised about it for awhile now.

I expect my celebratory view on this won't be shared by the majority of the forum, but it comes from a free speech viewpoint.

Wonderful. It will cause Labour to pass a real ban instead of a Conservative fake ban with exceptions for various foreign "christian" cults.

[Oryxslayer]

I think any chance of that passing this parliament died with Johnson’s authority in early 2022. Although it’s unclear how enthusiastic even he was, given the feet-dragging.

No chief whip was going to be enthused by the prospect of a public spat, with Alicia Kearns and Caroline Nokes in the red corner, and JRM and Miriam Cates in the blue corner.

The irony, of course, is that this will almost certainly surface in the next parliament, when Labour fancy watching the Tory backbenches have a public bust-up, while most others (bar the DUP and Duffield) heads through the Aye lobby.

If we end up with a Braverman or Badenoch as LOTO, wonder whether they will whip against, and risk a moment akin to IDS whipping against gay adoption.

I mean that's the whole reason why they even bothered in the first place right? Labour will glide this through without much fanfare the moment they come to power. So why not push it yourself with all the pomp, and avoid a potential conflicted vote that is hard to explain to the public. From that perspective,  killing the proposal is yet another bad move by a Tory government that is running in circles.

[Dan the Roman]

I think any chance of that passing this parliament died with Johnson’s authority in early 2022. Although it’s unclear how enthusiastic even he was, given the feet-dragging.

No chief whip was going to be enthused by the prospect of a public spat, with Alicia Kearns and Caroline Nokes in the red corner, and JRM and Miriam Cates in the blue corner.

The irony, of course, is that this will almost certainly surface in the next parliament, when Labour fancy watching the Tory backbenches have a public bust-up, while most others (bar the DUP and Duffield) heads through the Aye lobby.

If we end up with a Braverman or Badenoch as LOTO, wonder whether they will whip against, and risk a moment akin to IDS whipping against gay adoption.

I mean that's the whole reason why they even bothered in the first place right? Labour will glide this through without much fanfare the moment they come to power. So why not push it yourself with all the pomp, and avoid a potential conflicted vote that is hard to explain to the public. From that perspective,  killing the proposal is yet another bad move by a Tory government that is running in circles.

Always an error to assume people do not genuinely believe in this as a point of principle. It's one reason I can't see someone like Alicia Kearns having much of a future. Because she does not share the fundamental moral values of the vast majority of the right on this issue(not to mention her Israel stuff).

This is like abortion. You can charge prolifers with fanaticism but you will not find an answer to their behavior in strategic political calculation.  They may be deluded as to how unpopular some of their preoccupations are, but at most that might change their tactics. They are fighting against mass murder. The belief that Western society is seeing an epidemic of child abuse is deeply held and Tory MPs have to reflect that.

Sunak does not have a future. Which is why I think it is something he believes.  That leaked video of him mocking trans women from a year ago reflects the real Rishi.  He has the luxury of riding off into the sunset, so for him this is pleasure not work. If he faced overwhelming pressure to pass this he would, but he genuinely does not like Trans people, does not like activists,  and does not like the self-righteousness of liberal Tories like Kearns and Nokes who insist on acting as though they represent a serious party running a serious government with some sort of future. If they aren't swept away by the tide, well they and Kemi deserve each other.

[Badger]

The government has apparently killed off the proposed ban on gay/trans conversion therapy.

This might cause a small storm but everyone knew that it would never actually be passed under a Truss or Sunak government so I imagine it's unlikely to help or harm the Conservatives. Regardless of one's position on LGBT issues, and the ins and outs of so-called "conversion therapy", a ban would have been a rather serious threat to religious freedom and free speech and doubts have been raised about it for awhile now.

I expect my celebratory view on this won't be shared by the majority of the forum, but it comes from a free speech viewpoint.

I respectfully suggest it is akin to practicing psychology without a license, or at least adhering to Long abolished and disproven theories like electric shock. Free Speech isn't the issue

[Alcibiades]

The belief that Western society is seeing an epidemic of child abuse is deeply held and Tory MPs have to reflect that.

Very few people in Britain — including very few Conservative voters — believe this. This is the language of the conspiratorial American far right.