UK General Discussion: Rishecession

[Coldstream]

I don’t think the IDF are kind, I think they are cold and ruthless. And I think they’d make mincemeat of the decaying ruins of an army 14 years of Tory government has left us with. We can’t beat them militarily, and we have no economic influence to bare since we’ve burned all our trading relationships. There is nothing we can do to make Israel or Hamas listen to us, (even if both sides weren’t already openly - and reasonably - contemptuous and distrusting of Britain) pretending otherwise may be comforting - but it is pretending nonetheless.

[afleitch]

Let's be blunt - they are furious because their totally principled, correct and in *no* way opportunistic deal with the SNP (their supposed sworn enemy, remember) was exposed for all to see.

What 'deal'?

This is getting a bit silly.

The SNP tabled their amendment. Protocol is for the government of the day to table theirs in response. That's how it works. The only thing that changed was the Speaker allowing a vote on Labour's amendment contrary to precedents on Opposition Day.

[Wiswylfen]

I don’t think the IDF are kind, I think they are cold and ruthless. And I think they’d make mincemeat of the decaying ruins of an army 14 years of Tory government has left us with. We can’t beat them militarily, and we have no economic influence to bare since we’ve burned all our trading relationships. There is nothing we can do to make Israel or Hamas listen to us, (even if both sides weren’t already openly - and reasonably - contemptuous and distrusting of Britain) pretending otherwise may be comforting - but it is pretending nonetheless.

The notion of war with Israel is rather outlandish—but I assume you are well-aware of that and just trying to tie it to any other actual action as a way to discredit the latter beyond the suggestion that we have no economic influence to speak of.

There is nothing 'reasonable' about the contempt for and distrust of us on the part of terrorists and the Israeli right. With the latter, it is little more than a decades-long grudge over us hanging terrorists; if only our right-wingers cared a tenth as much for our soldiers and civilians who were murdered as they do someone chanting a slogan they don't like and deem racist (on what grounds?)! It's such a shame Begin and Shamir weren't hanged.

[rc18]

https://twitter.com/SkyNews/status/1760648919229321517?s=20

The Speaker of the HoC of the United Kingdom is claiming he felt that if he didn't include
Labour's motion then he believed MPs may be killed or parliament itself may be attacked. Good to know we can get what we want if we just harass, intimidate, and threaten violence toward MPs.

The mistake wasn't just simply the decision to include Labour's motion, it was the fact that if things are as serious as the Speaker claims then why did he not inform parliament immediately of this subversion of our democracy?

This has opened Pandora's box, the situation is going to go downhill rather quickly.

[Filuwaúrdjan]

Whatever it is the people in question want, they quite literally haven't actually got it though, have they?

[afleitch]

I don't really follow that in not allowing Labour's weaker amendment, and therefore giving it precedent over the stronger worded amendment, Parliament was at risk.

[AustralianSwingVoter]

One of the last vestiges of British imperialism is a steadfast refusal to recognise our own impotence & irrelevance.

Exemplified by thinking the main constraint on Britain taking action in Israel is the dismal state of the British military, rather than really being constrained by the “special relationship” necessitating Britain toe the American line for better or worse.

[Coldstream]

One of the last vestiges of British imperialism is a steadfast refusal to recognise our own impotence & irrelevance.

Exemplified by thinking the main constraint on Britain taking action in Israel is the dismal state of the British military, rather than really being constrained by the “special relationship” necessitating Britain toe the American line for better or worse.

You’ve misunderstood me I think. I didn’t mean to imply that wasn’t it, of course the special relationship is the biggest restraint, I just assumed that was obvious.

My point was that even if this didn’t exist/we decided to assert independence we couldn’t.

[YL]

I get why the SNP are cross - 'they shot our fox!' and so on - but there is genuinely no coherent case for Conservative fury, or, rather, there is none that is actually coherently defensible. There is a case for annoyance of a sort: Hoyle ran for Speaker on a 'no innovations' ticket, just made one and it happens to be one that his pre-Speakership party wished for. But that's not grounds for fury, just a little grousing.

There's a reasonably plausible theory that the Conservatives thought they were in danger of losing the vote on the Labour amendment and that by boycotting it and kicking up a fuss about the Speaker they overshadowed that.

[AustralianSwingVoter]

One of the last vestiges of British imperialism is a steadfast refusal to recognise our own impotence & irrelevance.

Exemplified by thinking the main constraint on Britain taking action in Israel is the dismal state of the British military, rather than really being constrained by the “special relationship” necessitating Britain toe the American line for better or worse.

You’ve misunderstood me I think.

Actually I meant to quote Wiswylfen rather than yourself (oops), as he seems to more prescribe to that outdated view of Britain’s power and influence. Totally in agreement with you.

[Wiswylfen]

One of the last vestiges of British imperialism is a steadfast refusal to recognise our own impotence & irrelevance.

Exemplified by thinking the main constraint on Britain taking action in Israel is the dismal state of the British military, rather than really being constrained by the “special relationship” necessitating Britain toe the American line for better or worse.

You’ve misunderstood me I think.

Actually I meant to quote Wiswylfen rather than yourself (oops), as he seems to more prescribe to that outdated view of Britain’s power and influence. Totally in agreement with you.

Do tell me how I "[think] the main constraint on Britain taking action in Israel is the dismal state of the British military".

[Torrain]

At the end of a febrile Westminster week, some light relief from Ipsos, who’ve published a survey as part of a larger project on the importance of question ordering:

For the uninitiated.

[CumbrianLefty]

Yes, see, this is the difference between me and Emma Picken: whereas she and her ilk denigrate their own nation at every opportunity while defending some foreign country, I am proud of England--which has every capability to be a great power--and believe that the Labour right should not be an outgrowth of Luke Akehurst's We Believe in Israel.

Maybe it's just me, but I'm getting really fed up of Eustonite fossils gushing over how nice and kind the IDF is and how we would never have such concern for civilian lives.

The time for 'strongly worded letters' (which are more symbolic than anything else) has long passed. That we will take no action is a damning indictment of our government, but not of our power.

I do agree with you that evangelically pro-Israel types are deeply tiresome if not worse, but isn't this sort of post just evidence that you are far too online? Yes, so am I - which explains why, like you, I am amongst the maybe 0.01% of the population who knows who Emma Picken actually is - but even when it comes to Luke The Nuke, how important is he in reality outside social media?? There are reasons why he has never actually come close to becoming an MP, and now almost certainly never will.

[President Punxsutawney Phil]

At the end of a febrile Westminster week, some light relief from Ipsos, who’ve published a survey as part of a larger project on the importance of question ordering:

For the uninitiated.

Quite hilarious. Props to IPSOS.

[Wiswylfen]

Yes, see, this is the difference between me and Emma Picken: whereas she and her ilk denigrate their own nation at every opportunity while defending some foreign country, I am proud of England--which has every capability to be a great power--and believe that the Labour right should not be an outgrowth of Luke Akehurst's We Believe in Israel.

Maybe it's just me, but I'm getting really fed up of Eustonite fossils gushing over how nice and kind the IDF is and how we would never have such concern for civilian lives.

The time for 'strongly worded letters' (which are more symbolic than anything else) has long passed. That we will take no action is a damning indictment of our government, but not of our power.

I do agree with you that evangelically pro-Israel types are deeply tiresome if not worse, but isn't this sort of post just evidence that you are far too online? Yes, so am I - which explains why, like you, I am amongst the maybe 0.01% of the population who knows who Emma Picken actually is - but even when it comes to Luke The Nuke, how important is he in reality outside social media?? There are reasons why he has never actually come close to becoming an MP, and now almost certainly never will.

Alas, our politics are far too online and so I will engage with politics as it exists. I would say that an NEC member who is synonymous with Labour First is of some importance, yes; as, unfortunately, are Picken and 'Gordstein'.

[afleitch]

https://twitter.com/SaulStaniforth/status/1762152463816090079

It rumbles on.

[CumbrianLefty]

But the political world has already moved on.

Btw it is now reported that the Speaker's meeting with Starmer that has so exercised some was also attended by half a dozen officials - who have claimed that nothing improper went on.

[Earthling]

But the political world has already moved on.

Btw it is now reported that the Speaker's meeting with Starmer that has so exercised some was also attended by half a dozen officials - who have claimed that nothing improper went on.

Right-wing media. The Tories can always count on the media to help them out.

[Torrain]

In non-Anderson suspension news, Inverness MSP Fergus Ewing has had his appeal against his one-week suspension from the SNP denied, after five months of legal deliberation. He’s now hinting he may leave the party.

So much time, energy, importance and legal cash - applied to a seven day suspension.

Scottish politics at its wackiest.

[afleitch]

So much time, energy, importance and legal cash - applied to a seven day suspension.

Scottish politics at its wackiest.

He just couldn't take the 'L'

[President Punxsutawney Phil]

So much time, energy, importance and legal cash - applied to a seven day suspension.

Scottish politics at its wackiest.

He just couldn't take the 'L'

Knowing when to cut your losses is a good skill.

[Torrain]

So much time, energy, importance and legal cash - applied to a seven day suspension.

Scottish politics at its wackiest.

He just couldn't take the 'L'

Aye. While I am sympathetic to frustration with the Greens, the idea he could vote against a coalition minister in a confidence vote - and avoid penalty - does suggest either real arrogance, or that he was merely looking for an excuse to jump ship.

Given his reputation, quite likely both.

[Torrain]

The three Plaid MPs have signed the no-confidence motion in Hoyle, bringing the total to 86.

[CumbrianLefty]

The three Plaid MPs have signed the no-confidence motion in Hoyle, bringing the total to 86.

Duly sensationalised by some in the media as "an ENTIRE parliamentary party"

Not impossible that this was the SNP calling a favour in.

[Torrain]

Bridgen appeared to call for vaccine researchers to be put to death in the Commons this afternoon.

He’s definitely getting worse - you’d hope there was someone who could intervene, before he does or says something that causes legitimate harm to himself or others.