Will Student Loan forgiveness stand? Nope.

[jojoju1998]

So crazy that an entire political party has made not repaying your debts into one of their core platform planks.

Congress can and should lower interest rates, no reason to gouge people on these. But there is just no world where taxpayers who didn’t go to college should subsidize those who did.

Maybe fiscal responsibility will make a comeback this year, but I doubt it. Probably Biden will do some other thing to keep people from paying their debts.

Wait until you find out about public k-12 education.

Non-sequitur. Everyone’s kids get to take advantage of those schools, and they’re free. Yes taxpayers without children are subsidizing those with children but that’s much less bad than the non college educated (aka the poorest Americans) subsidizing the college educated (aka the wealthiest and most privileged).

Assuming that most College educated people have a good paying job.


Skilled trade workers are affluent as well, and no one's complying about subsidizing trade schools.....

[Skill and Chance]

So crazy that an entire political party has made not repaying your debts into one of their core platform planks.

Congress can and should lower interest rates, no reason to gouge people on these. But there is just no world where taxpayers who didn’t go to college should subsidize those who did.

Maybe fiscal responsibility will make a comeback this year, but I doubt it. Probably Biden will do some other thing to keep people from paying their debts.

Wait until you find out about public k-12 education.

Non-sequitur. Everyone’s kids get to take advantage of those schools, and they’re free. Yes taxpayers without children are subsidizing those with children but that’s much less bad than the non college educated (aka the poorest Americans) subsidizing the college educated (aka the wealthiest and most privileged).

I actually don't think this is the best argument FWIW, because at least in terms of federal income taxes, we are talking about the wealthiest subset of those who didn't go to college subsidizing the poorest subset of those who did.  People who make median non-college grad incomes generally don't pay federal income taxes in any meaningful way.  The owner of a large plumbing company who makes $350K today and has made 6 figures since age 25 contributing to paying off debt owed by a barista making $35K isn't obviously regressive just because the barista has a graduate degree.  The average student loan borrower isn't a medical student any more.

The stronger arguments are sanctity of contracts ("you knew what you signed when you signed it"), perverse individual incentives ("I don't need to try as hard to get scholarships/fellowships now or work for a few years to save up for grad school"), and perverse institutional incentives ("let's charge $100K/year for a degree in underwater basket weaving now instead of justt $50K, because they won't have to pay it back anyway").

[Skill and Chance]

So crazy that an entire political party has made not repaying your debts into one of their core platform planks.

Congress can and should lower interest rates, no reason to gouge people on these. But there is just no world where taxpayers who didn’t go to college should subsidize those who did.

Maybe fiscal responsibility will make a comeback this year, but I doubt it. Probably Biden will do some other thing to keep people from paying their debts.

Wait until you find out about public k-12 education.

Non-sequitur. Everyone’s kids get to take advantage of those schools, and they’re free. Yes taxpayers without children are subsidizing those with children but that’s much less bad than the non college educated (aka the poorest Americans) subsidizing the college educated (aka the wealthiest and most privileged).

Assuming that most College educated people have a good paying job.


Skilled trade workers are affluent as well, and no one's complying about subsidizing trade schools.....

Yes, I jut replied about this.  It's a delicate matter.  You can't generalize med school style "guaranteed 6 figures for life unless you commit a crime" status to all student loan borrowers anymore. 

[Arizona Iced Tea]

Biden messed up by promising people that their loans would be forgiven before it got through SCOTUS.  Politicians don't follow promises all the time, but to tell a group drowning in debt and desperate for anything and then give them hope only for it to be shattered is going to hurt more. Now you have millions of Millennials/GenZers in rage who are now making it their lifelong goal to pack the court so they can get what they want without paying stuff back.

[Pres Mike]

Lets be honest. Most non-college graduates don't pay any taxes.

[Progressive Pessimist]

I can't say I'm surprised and so that blunts the disappointment of this ruling, especially since I would have benefited from this. It's still infuriating nonetheless. This Supreme Court majority has proven that they don't actually care about laws or jurisprudence, so I've become conditioned to feel the same about their rulings which are feeling more and more ideological, political, and spiteful every term.

On the other hand, this case was always going to be a win-win for Biden when it comes to political interests: if it was held up he'd have another accomplishment to campaign on, if it was struck down it just further reinforces the referendum on the Supreme Court that 2024 could turn into.

[John Dule]

Because of tradition which may or may not be questioned, and at the end of the day comes down to what people are willing to tolerate. We most certainly do not "overthrow a military power" by electing new presidents, because presidential elections do not fundamentally change militaries or the people who work for them.

People are "willing to tolerate" our system because they understand that imperfect stability is better than chaos. Presidential elections change the person who commands the armed forces, which is more important than who "works for them." If your law-of-the-jungle approach were true, presidents would never step down.

We already live in an authoritarian country. People's individual liberties have been compromised or outright ignored for most of its history. The so-called "land of the free" currently houses 20% of the world's incarcerated people despite making 4% of the global population. Challenging the factors which created these problems is the exact opposite of "authoritarian."

Wow, you're so cool. You can identify problems. Now please offer some solutions other than "The strong shall rule over the weak."

[Bleach Blonde Bad Built Butch Bodies for Biden]

Because of tradition which may or may not be questioned, and at the end of the day comes down to what people are willing to tolerate. We most certainly do not "overthrow a military power" by electing new presidents, because presidential elections do not fundamentally change militaries or the people who work for them.

People are "willing to tolerate" our system because they understand that imperfect stability is better than chaos. Presidential elections change the person who commands the armed forces, which is more important than who "works for them." If your law-of-the-jungle approach were true, presidents would never step down.

The problem of a president refusing to leave office would be resolved by the Secret Service. Guys who have, you know, guns. It all would come down to who has more military power and Trump would've sooner been taken out by the National Guard than for his plan to succeed. Most likely, if 1/6 had escalated to that point, Trump would have decided to exit by the mere threat of violent retaliation. Laws do not and cannot enforce themselves. But would you realistically expect the military to keep Trump in power because he's the commander?

We already live in an authoritarian country. People's individual liberties have been compromised or outright ignored for most of its history. The so-called "land of the free" currently houses 20% of the world's incarcerated people despite making 4% of the global population. Challenging the factors which created these problems is the exact opposite of "authoritarian."

Wow, you're so cool. You can identify problems. Now please offer some solutions other than "The strong shall rule over the weak."

I'm not a Libertarian, so I don't adhere to that philosophy. I posted my solutions earlier in another thread. The Constitution should be fundamentally rethought with the Bill of Rights staying intact. Will I get everything I want? No. Do I think people would ever dare say "The Senate should be restructured or abolished?" No. And as long as the status quo is skewed to favor the preferred policy outcomes of the party that won the Popular Vote once in the last eight presidential elections, there won't be any change and absolutely nothing I post here is going to change that.

It's your prerogative to worship a two-and-a-half century document, with all the corruption that it has and currently enables, without any regard for the consequences, as you have openly stated. Sorry that I am not a member of your cult. But I have as much right to sow the seeds of doubt in political institutions as you do with religious ones.

[HisGrace]

I'm not even that big on executive authority and I fail to see why the president doesn't have the power to forgive federal debt at will as the country's chief law enforcement officer. Regardless of what anyone thinks of the merits of Biden's policy this is a very legally dubious decision.

[Donerail]

I fail to see why the president doesn't have the power to forgive federal debt at will as the country's chief law enforcement officer.

The President is commander-in-chief of the armed forces, but he is not a law enforcement officer and does not have a domestic "police power." When it comes to spending money, he only has the powers Congress gives him by statute.

[dead0man]

Lets be honest. Most non-college graduates don't pay any taxes.

indeed, I am an exceptional human being (non-college grad that pays a lot of taxes)

[Badger]

Lets be honest. Most non-college graduates don't pay any taxes.

Peak Atlas ( in the worst sense of the phrase)

[jaichind]

I'm not even that big on executive authority and I fail to see why the president doesn't have the power to forgive federal debt at will as the country's chief law enforcement officer. Regardless of what anyone thinks of the merits of Biden's policy this is a very legally dubious decision.

Because doing so is an expenditure and will require Congressional approval.  Only Congress can appropriate money.

[Amenhotep Bakari-Sellers]

All the CRT did was defer it til 24 anyways we don't have to CRT packing but Congress is more likely to send a CRT packing bill to Biden in 24 anyways

[Pres Mike]

Lets be honest. Most non-college graduates don't pay any taxes.

Peak Atlas ( in the worst sense of the phrase)

Why? In any given year, 47-53% of Americans do not pay income taxes. This inculdes people who pay nothing but also people whose tax returns are more than what they paid.

This group is mostly retired, disabled, low income and working class. Uusally households making less than 70k a year. There is a huge overlap of none college graduates and low income households

[Pres Mike]

Lets be honest. Most non-college graduates don't pay any taxes.

Peak Atlas ( in the worst sense of the phrase)

Why? In any given year, 47-53% of Americans do not pay income taxes. This inculdes people who pay nothing but also people whose tax returns are more than what they paid.

This group is mostly retired, disabled, low income and working class. Uusally households making less than 70k a year. There is a huge overlap of none college graduates and low income households

The irony is, student loan forgivness will be mostly paid by taxes paid by college graduates!

[MaxQue]

Lets be honest. Most non-college graduates don't pay any taxes.

Peak Atlas ( in the worst sense of the phrase)

Why? In any given year, 47-53% of Americans do not pay income taxes. This inculdes people who pay nothing but also people whose tax returns are more than what they paid.

This group is mostly retired, disabled, low income and working class. Uusally households making less than 70k a year. There is a huge overlap of none college graduates and low income households

The irony is, student loan forgivness will be mostly paid by taxes paid by college graduates!

Which is fine. The people who got more from their college education are paying more for it while the people who got less from it pay less.

[Skill and Chance]

Lets be honest. Most non-college graduates don't pay any taxes.

Peak Atlas ( in the worst sense of the phrase)

Why? In any given year, 47-53% of Americans do not pay income taxes. This inculdes people who pay nothing but also people whose tax returns are more than what they paid.

This group is mostly retired, disabled, low income and working class. Uusally households making less than 70k a year. There is a huge overlap of none college graduates and low income households

The irony is, student loan forgivness will be mostly paid by taxes paid by college graduates!

Which is fine. The people who got more from their college education are paying more for it while the people who got less from it pay less.

Yes, but this does call into question the narrative that student loan forgiveness is a regressive policy.  To the extent that non-college grads will be paying off the loans of college grads, it will be the non-college grads who still found a way to make 6 figures paying for the college grads and even postgrads who didn't find a way make 6 figures.  Is a master plumber with several employees who makes $350K subsidizing an adjunct professor making $35K an inherently regressive policy just because the adjunct has a PhD?  IDK.  There's also going to a lot of inheriting the family business style privilege among wealthy non-college grads.

[HisGrace]

I'm not even that big on executive authority and I fail to see why the president doesn't have the power to forgive federal debt at will as the country's chief law enforcement officer. Regardless of what anyone thinks of the merits of Biden's policy this is a very legally dubious decision.

Because doing so is an expenditure and will require Congressional approval.  Only Congress can appropriate money.

That just seems a reach to me. The expenditure was using tax money to make the loans in the first place, how it is collected is the purview of the executive branch.

[Fight for Trump]

Lets be honest. Most non-college graduates don't pay any taxes.

... and?

[Fmr. Pres. Duke]

The biggest issue for me with loan forgiveness is it doesn't tackle the root of the problem when it comes to obscene tuition costs. You can forgive loans now but what happens next year? College freshmen all over the country enroll in universities and accumulate debt. Do we forgive $10k of loans every year? And at what income level?

You have many private universities charging an excess of $80-90k/year. How does one fix that? I don't know.

[jaichind]

The biggest issue for me with loan forgiveness is it doesn't tackle the root of the problem when it comes to obscene tuition costs. You can forgive loans now but what happens next year? College freshmen all over the country enroll in universities and accumulate debt. Do we forgive $10k of loans every year? And at what income level?

You have many private universities charging an excess of $80-90k/year. How does one fix that? I don't know.

Take away student loans at such low rates.  Student loans at such low rates artificially lower the cost of college in the short run and artificially creates demand for a college education that is not justified from a cost-benefit point of view.  This merely pushed up the market price for college education which in turn creates more pressure to make cheap student loans available.

[OSR stands with Israel]

Here are a solution: Limit the amount of student loans you get to the cost of instate universities and require the rest of be cosigned by the out of state university.
 

[Fmr. Pres. Duke]

The biggest issue for me with loan forgiveness is it doesn't tackle the root of the problem when it comes to obscene tuition costs. You can forgive loans now but what happens next year? College freshmen all over the country enroll in universities and accumulate debt. Do we forgive $10k of loans every year? And at what income level?

You have many private universities charging an excess of $80-90k/year. How does one fix that? I don't know.

Take away student loans at such low rates.  Student loans at such low rates artificially lower the cost of college in the short run and artificially creates demand for a college education that is not justified from a cost-benefit point of view.  This merely pushed up the market price for college education which in turn creates more pressure to make cheap student loans available.

I've long agreed that the ease of getting student loans has pushed up the cost of college because the schools can get away with it thanks to loan money.

But where is the money going? How can one reel it in? These are things I really don't know or understand. Do we steer students away from less useful majors? Cut back departments entirely? I know when I went to college, I majored in political science and economics. I knew poli sci was useless, and if I hadn't gone to law school, I wanted to have a major to fall back on for a real job, so I studied economics in the event I wanted to go into finance. I ended up going to law school and becoming an attorney, but a lot of others don't think like I do, they think in the moment and ignore the long term ramifications of their choices.

All I know is the basic notion of forgiving current loans does not solve this problem. It gets votes for sure, but that's all it really does.

[President Johnson]

While I personally support Biden's measure, I'd actually say it's something that should be done through the legislative way. Sadly, Republicans have little desire to get anything meaningful done.

I guess the entire education system is in dire need for some reforms, especially making a higher education not depended on the financial status of a child's parents. It's wrong and even from an economic perspective makes little sense since it's a waste of potential.