Spain mandates commercial AC no lower than 27C/81F, heat during winter no higher than 19C/66F

[politicallefty]

Link.

If you’re heading to Spain this summer, prepare to feel a bit toastier than usual. The Spanish government has just passed a decree that makes it illegal in lots of public places to set the air-conditioning below 27C.

The rule applies to public buildings such as airports, bars, cinemas, rail stations, shopping centres and theatres. While the law doesn’t apply to households, Spaniards are being encouraged to follow the same rules at home.

And it isn’t just summer air-con temperatures that are being targeted by Spain’s new law. Come winter, public buildings also won’t be allowed to set their heating above 19C, while lights in shop windows will be required to be turned off by 10pm.

I'm sure there will be many here that will justify this, but those AC temperatures are way too high. I can understand the restrictions during the winter. The heat temperature isn't great, but it's tolerable with layers. You don't have that luxury in the summer. You can only take off so many layers before you're inappropriate in public. That's also not to mention that AC is far more efficient over heat. Most space heaters I've seen run at 1500W while a 5000 BTU window AC runs at 400-450W.

[dead0man]

how could this possibly be enforceable?

edit-oh, missed that this was only a law for "public" places, so I suppose it's enforced via narcs

[parochial boy]

Good idea, you know, if you want to be serious about climate change at some point you maybe actually need to reduce energy consumption.

In any case the problem as far as AC in particular goes (and heating too partly) actually goes beyond just carbon emissions. For a start, AC is an enormous factor when it comes to raising outdoor temperatures, and when you have a big urban heat island effect - especially in Spanish cities that tend not to be overly endowed with green or open spaces - they can contribute to night time temperatures being 7 or more degrees celsius above the surrounding countryside. Which obviously is something that makes it more uncomfortable for everyone, but especially the people who are particularly vulnerable to heatwaves and have less access to a climatised environment. ie, old people and homeless people.

And there is also the ongoing energy crisis in Europe that means a pretty immediate requirement to reduce energy reduction this winter. Spain isn't as badly exposed as elsewhere as it imports relatively little Russian gas, but is still signed up to the plan to reduce gas consumption by 25% (a little thing called solidarity, which our Northern European friends might want to take note of) and so needs to find ways to get there.

[politicallefty]

how could this possibly be enforceable?

edit-oh, missed that this was only a law for "public" places, so I suppose it's enforced via narcs

Yeah. I don't know if it was part of the final law, but I thought I'd read that it also required doors to be closed when running AC or heat. I'm on board with that part.

Personally, you'll have to get my AC out of my cold dead hands. I like it at 68F when I'm trying to sleep. If a business in this country tries to keep their AC at what Spain wants, they're not getting my business and I'm pretty sure that's how most people feel. If you try that here, you'll have a true bipartisan revolution.

[100% pro-life no matter what]

I'm strongly against this, but I do want to note that 81 in Spain would feel very different than 81 in the US (at least east of the Rockies) because it's way less humid over there.

[It’s so Joever]

Agree with the A/C cap, disagree with the heating cap (based and warm room pilled)

[ملكة كرينجيتوك]

Personally, you'll have to get my AC out of my cold dead hands. I like it at 68F when I'm trying to sleep. If a business in this country tries to keep their AC at what Spain wants, they're not getting my business and I'm pretty sure that's how most people feel. If you try that here, you'll have a true bipartisan revolution.

68 F at night is overkill, even by SF standards. You can’t even cool a house or apartment in Portland or Seattle down to that temperature by opening all the windows on a summer night.

81 F at night sounds awful unless those AC units are good at dehumidifying.

[politicallefty]

68 F at night is overkill, even by SF standards. You can’t even cool a house or apartment in Portland or Seattle down to that temperature by opening all the windows on a summer night.

81 F at night sounds awful unless those AC units are good at dehumidifying.

I don't live in the Bay Area and it's a window unit with the door closed. It's great for sleeping. When I use central AC, I like 72-74F. I find anything above a room temp of 74 uncomfortable to sleep in. There's no such thing as a comfortable 81F, humid or not.

Agree with the A/C cap, disagree with the heating cap (based and warm room pilled)

That's backward. You can add layers or blankets when it's cold. There's a limit as to what you can do in polite company in terms of removing layers.

[ملكة كرينجيتوك]

68 F at night is overkill, even by SF standards. You can’t even cool a house or apartment in Portland or Seattle down to that temperature by opening all the windows on a summer night.

81 F at night sounds awful unless those AC units are good at dehumidifying.

I don't live in the Bay Area and it's a window unit with the door closed. It's great for sleeping. When I use central AC, I like 72-74F. I find anything above a room temp of 74 uncomfortable to sleep in. There's no such thing as a comfortable 81F, humid or not.

True, but I've never experienced a non-humid 81 F indoors. Have probably slept (very poorly) in hotter indoor conditions before, I think it could've gotten up to 85 F where I was staying during the climax of the Sept 2020 smoke season?

[It’s so Joever]

68 F at night is overkill, even by SF standards. You can’t even cool a house or apartment in Portland or Seattle down to that temperature by opening all the windows on a summer night.

81 F at night sounds awful unless those AC units are good at dehumidifying.

I don't live in the Bay Area and it's a window unit with the door closed. It's great for sleeping. When I use central AC, I like 72-74F. I find anything above a room temp of 74 uncomfortable to sleep in. There's no such thing as a comfortable 81F, humid or not.

Agree with the A/C cap, disagree with the heating cap (based and warm room pilled)

That's backward. You can add layers or blankets when it's cold. There's a limit as to what you can do in polite company in terms of removing layers.

Yes but I personally dislike the cold far more with a burning (or should I say freezing) passion. And everyone knows that what I want in policy is what matters.

[_.]

Personally, you'll have to get my AC out of my cold dead hands. I like it at 68F when I'm trying to sleep. If a business in this country tries to keep their AC at what Spain wants, they're not getting my business and I'm pretty sure that's how most people feel. If you try that here, you'll have a true bipartisan revolution.

68 F at night is overkill, even by SF standards. You can’t even cool a house or apartment in Portland or Seattle down to that temperature by opening all the windows on a summer night.

81 F at night sounds awful unless those AC units are good at dehumidifying.

81 F at night is how I live!
Too cold honestly.

Image Link

[Aurelius]

Good idea, you know, if you want to be serious about climate change at some point you maybe actually need to reduce energy consumption.

In any case the problem as far as AC in particular goes (and heating too partly) actually goes beyond just carbon emissions. For a start, AC is an enormous factor when it comes to raising outdoor temperatures, and when you have a big urban heat island effect - especially in Spanish cities that tend not to be overly endowed with green or open spaces - they can contribute to night time temperatures being 7 or more degrees celsius above the surrounding countryside. Which obviously is something that makes it more uncomfortable for everyone, but especially the people who are particularly vulnerable to heatwaves and have less access to a climatised environment. ie, old people and homeless people.

And there is also the ongoing energy crisis in Europe that means a pretty immediate requirement to reduce energy reduction this winter. Spain isn't as badly exposed as elsewhere as it imports relatively little Russian gas, but is still signed up to the plan to reduce gas consumption by 25% (a little thing called solidarity, which our Northern European friends might want to take note of) and so needs to find ways to get there.

Only if you're irrationally opposed to nuclear power and carbon capture. Many in the climate cult are not merely seeking mitigation, they actively want to reduce people's standards of living for their own ideological ends.

With enough buildout of those two technologies, we can get CO2 back down to 350 and reduce warming to 2 degrees without changing our way of life one inch. Thus the fact that they are so rarely advocated by the people flying around the planet to fearmonger should raise eyebrows.

[ملكة كرينجيتوك]

Good idea, you know, if you want to be serious about climate change at some point you maybe actually need to reduce energy consumption.

In any case the problem as far as AC in particular goes (and heating too partly) actually goes beyond just carbon emissions. For a start, AC is an enormous factor when it comes to raising outdoor temperatures, and when you have a big urban heat island effect - especially in Spanish cities that tend not to be overly endowed with green or open spaces - they can contribute to night time temperatures being 7 or more degrees celsius above the surrounding countryside. Which obviously is something that makes it more uncomfortable for everyone, but especially the people who are particularly vulnerable to heatwaves and have less access to a climatised environment. ie, old people and homeless people.

And there is also the ongoing energy crisis in Europe that means a pretty immediate requirement to reduce energy reduction this winter. Spain isn't as badly exposed as elsewhere as it imports relatively little Russian gas, but is still signed up to the plan to reduce gas consumption by 25% (a little thing called solidarity, which our Northern European friends might want to take note of) and so needs to find ways to get there.

Only if you're irrationally opposed to nuclear power and carbon capture. Many in the climate cult are not merely seeking mitigation, they actively want to reduce people's standards of living for their own ideological ends.

With enough buildout of those two technologies, we can get CO2 back down to 350 and reduce warming to 2 degrees without changing our way of life one inch. Thus the fact that they are so rarely advocated by the people flying around the planet to fearmonger should raise eyebrows.

We won't be able to build out those two technologies quickly enough to be able to get global average CO2 levels down to 350 ppm if we don't also adopt renewables and drastic urban planning reforms. You can't scale up CO2 capture and build S019-tons of nuclear power points overnight.

[If my soul was made of stone]

Good idea, you know, if you want to be serious about climate change at some point you maybe actually need to reduce energy consumption.

In any case the problem as far as AC in particular goes (and heating too partly) actually goes beyond just carbon emissions. For a start, AC is an enormous factor when it comes to raising outdoor temperatures, and when you have a big urban heat island effect - especially in Spanish cities that tend not to be overly endowed with green or open spaces - they can contribute to night time temperatures being 7 or more degrees celsius above the surrounding countryside. Which obviously is something that makes it more uncomfortable for everyone, but especially the people who are particularly vulnerable to heatwaves and have less access to a climatised environment. ie, old people and homeless people.

And there is also the ongoing energy crisis in Europe that means a pretty immediate requirement to reduce energy reduction this winter. Spain isn't as badly exposed as elsewhere as it imports relatively little Russian gas, but is still signed up to the plan to reduce gas consumption by 25% (a little thing called solidarity, which our Northern European friends might want to take note of) and so needs to find ways to get there.

Only if you're irrationally opposed to nuclear power and carbon capture. Many in the climate cult are not merely seeking mitigation, they actively want to reduce people's standards of living for their own ideological ends.

With enough buildout of those two technologies, we can get CO2 back down to 350 and reduce warming to 2 degrees without changing our way of life one inch. Thus the fact that they are so rarely advocated by the people flying around the planet to fearmonger should raise eyebrows.

1. Carbon capture is an insane greenwashing joke that inevitably results in enough direct or indirect emissions to offset its supposed gains and ultimately serves to relegitimize fossil fuels
2. The insistence of people like you that environmentalist thought not beholden to capitalist realism is some sort of neopagan death cult is deeply untrue, but in a way that makes me wish it were real

[Lief 🗽]

Disgusting law, any warmer than 70 is barbaric.

[parochial boy]

Good idea, you know, if you want to be serious about climate change at some point you maybe actually need to reduce energy consumption.

In any case the problem as far as AC in particular goes (and heating too partly) actually goes beyond just carbon emissions. For a start, AC is an enormous factor when it comes to raising outdoor temperatures, and when you have a big urban heat island effect - especially in Spanish cities that tend not to be overly endowed with green or open spaces - they can contribute to night time temperatures being 7 or more degrees celsius above the surrounding countryside. Which obviously is something that makes it more uncomfortable for everyone, but especially the people who are particularly vulnerable to heatwaves and have less access to a climatised environment. ie, old people and homeless people.

And there is also the ongoing energy crisis in Europe that means a pretty immediate requirement to reduce energy reduction this winter. Spain isn't as badly exposed as elsewhere as it imports relatively little Russian gas, but is still signed up to the plan to reduce gas consumption by 25% (a little thing called solidarity, which our Northern European friends might want to take note of) and so needs to find ways to get there.

Only if you're irrationally opposed to nuclear power and carbon capture. Many in the climate cult are not merely seeking mitigation, they actively want to reduce people's standards of living for their own ideological ends.

With enough buildout of those two technologies, we can get CO2 back down to 350 and reduce warming to 2 degrees without changing our way of life one inch. Thus the fact that they are so rarely advocated by the people flying around the planet to fearmonger should raise eyebrows.

We won't be able to build out those two technologies quickly enough to be able to get global average CO2 levels down to 350 ppm if we don't also adopt renewables and drastic urban planning reforms. You can't scale up CO2 capture and build S019-tons of nuclear power points overnight.

Exactly, carbon capture isn’t even close to being at a stage where it can be deployed massively. Nuclear power is expensive, takes literally more than a decade to gear up a new nuclear power station and in any case is made even more technically difficult by the fact that it has ben so long since it was deployed massively that we sinply lack the technical skills to do so at the moment. Even then it singularly doesn’t solve the issues around problems like transportation, industrial processes or agriculture.

Claiming there is some quick and easy solution to climate change is just a dishonest tactic from people who don’t want to acknowledge the scale of the project and the challenge ahead. Or worse, it is indicative of quite how we have a society are collectively unable to resolve any of the problems that we are facing because we don’t want to admit that it means having to do something that is difficult and complicated.

It will take a lot of different things, from renewables to upgrading infrastructure to new technologies to, yes, straight out finding ways to reduce energy consumption and more. If you think you can just avoid what you don’t like you are unfortunately being mislead

[CumbrianLefty]

The insistence of people like you that environmentalist thought not beholden to capitalist realism is some sort of neopagan death cult is deeply untrue, but in a way that makes me wish it were real

Well, its true of a fringe element within it. You still get the odd "population control" enthusiast popping up in the mainstream Green parties even now.

[Former President tack50]

Well, regarding the summer temperatures, about 2 weeks ago I was in the mountains of my home island, in fact in the warmest part of it, where temps were easily reaching 38C or 100F (a surprisingly dry heat, but still). I went into a store that was a bit of an early adopter fo the law and had their window AC unit set to 27C. It was cold enough. Would I have preferred a couple degrees less? Yes. But 27 was more than enough to notice the difference between indoors and outdoors.

I supppose around 6 months from now I'll let you know regarding winter temperatures since I'll be in Madrid, even thoush last winter was quite warm.