Marjorie Taylor-Greene Seeks to Criminalize Gender-Affirming Care for Minors

[🐒Gods of Prosperity🔱🐲💸]

Aside from the Gender part,

This would violate Medical Freedom of Doctors to practice however they want, and would violate interstate commerce as well.

It’s a private medical service, offered freely by the provider.

Whether or not it should, I don't think an unrestricted freedom of doctors to practice however they want is a thing that's ever been legally recognized.

[Saint Milei]

Imagine being upset at this lmao.

[Trans Rights Are Human Rights]

Once again, simply not similar to the Tuskegee experiment. I think you should revisit the basic structure of that operation (i.e., what the victims thought was happening vs. what was actually happening, what remedies they were allowed to seek out, etc.) before you try to use it as a cudgel in these debates. Just because a medical treatment may have some implications for fertility does not mean that it is Tuskegee-esque.

Yes, but have you considered: Satan is compelling hot tomboys to become ineffable transmen?

[T'Chenka]

Imagine being upset at this lmao.

Charming.

[Darthpi – Anti-Florida Activist]

Imagine being upset at this lmao.

Imagine being upset at treating trans people as something other than an outgroup to be used to rally political opposition.

[Trans Rights Are Human Rights]

Imagine being upset at this lmao.

Okay, I'll bite. Why shouldn't I be? The bill will forcibly detransition me, as someone who can't afford hormones without insurance, and ban higher education from teaching trans healthcare, preventing new doctors from being informed about transgender people.

[Darthpi – Anti-Florida Activist]

Once again, simply not similar to the Tuskegee experiment. I think you should revisit the basic structure of that operation (i.e., what the victims thought was happening vs. what was actually happening, what remedies they were allowed to seek out, etc.) before you try to use it as a cudgel in these debates. Just because a medical treatment may have some implications for fertility does not mean that it is Tuskegee-esque.

Yes, but have you considered: Satan is compelling hot tomboys to become ineffable transmen?

This is such a beautiful level of dismissive mockery, I am in awe.

[Saint Milei]

Imagine being upset at this lmao.

Okay, I'll bite. Why shouldn't I be? The bill will forcibly detransition me, as someone who can't afford hormones without insurance, and ban higher education from teaching trans healthcare, preventing new doctors from being informed about transgender people.

Wait until you're 18

[Saint Milei]

Imagine being upset at this lmao.

Charming.

I try my best

[T'Chenka]

I think his point is that in both cases patients received treatment that was morally questionable. The difference obviously is that the Tuskegee experiments were intentionally misleading and harmful while here the doctors are probably doing what they think is right on an emotional level, but the science is nowhere near settled yet and the side effects irreversible.

It's a sloppy comparison but it isn't totally wrong. If I'm understanding it properly. Now do I think there's some kind of insidious agenda to purposefully sterilize children? No, that's crazy. What we're seeing are parents who don't know how to say no combined with doctors who don't want to be labeled as bigots.

Why are you assuming that the doctors are trying to talk the parents into hormone therapy? I haven't seen any evidence of that. I was under the impression that it was more mentioned as a possibility by doctors that families can choose to explore if they want, or in some cases, families need to talk their doctors into it. I could be wrong here, I admit it, but nobody has posted anything credible on Atlas that I've seen showing that doctors are the ones pushing HRT onto kids / families.

It's not so much as doctors are pushing it on patients, it's that they feel the emotional benefits of receiving the therapy outweigh the irreversible side effects and often downplay said side effects.

Is there evidence that doctors are downplaying the side effects and not being open with families about how there are still things that we don't know about HRT side effects? Or are doctors sharing this information and families are choosing HRT anyways despite that? Because it's two VERY different things.

[Horus]

I think his point is that in both cases patients received treatment that was morally questionable. The difference obviously is that the Tuskegee experiments were intentionally misleading and harmful while here the doctors are probably doing what they think is right on an emotional level, but the science is nowhere near settled yet and the side effects irreversible.

It's a sloppy comparison but it isn't totally wrong. If I'm understanding it properly. Now do I think there's some kind of insidious agenda to purposefully sterilize children? No, that's crazy. What we're seeing are parents who don't know how to say no combined with doctors who don't want to be labeled as bigots.

Why are you assuming that the doctors are trying to talk the parents into hormone therapy? I haven't seen any evidence of that. I was under the impression that it was more mentioned as a possibility by doctors that families can choose to explore if they want, or in some cases, families need to talk their doctors into it. I could be wrong here, I admit it, but nobody has posted anything credible on Atlas that I've seen showing that doctors are the ones pushing HRT onto kids / families.

It's not so much as doctors are pushing it on patients, it's that they feel the emotional benefits of receiving the therapy outweigh the irreversible side effects and often downplay said side effects.

Is there evidence that doctors are downplaying the side effects and not being open with families about how there are still things that we don't know about HRT side effects? Or are doctors sharing this information and families are choosing HRT anyways despite that? Because it's two VERY different things.

I mean the common thing to do in medicine these days is to put the feelings of the patient first. Just like doctors now are encouraged to not to tell fat patients to lose weight because it might make them sad.

[Trans Rights Are Human Rights]

Imagine being upset at this lmao.

Okay, I'll bite. Why shouldn't I be? The bill will forcibly detransition me, as someone who can't afford hormones without insurance, and ban higher education from teaching trans healthcare, preventing new doctors from being informed about transgender people.

Wait until you're 18

I'm 21. Did you read the bill?

[world.execute(me)]

Y'all seem completely unaware of the massive good hormones do for us. Not taking puberty blockers means having one's body massively transformed in a deeply distressing way that cannot be reversed with current technology. When it comes to Puberty blockers and HRT vs. the wrong puberty, both have negative side effects, but at least the negative effects of puberty blockers are mostly reversible if you just stop taking them before getting HRT. And the vast majority of kids who go on puberty blockers continue to HRT. BTW the fertility concerns about puberty blockers are not supported

https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lanchi/article/PIIS2352-4642(21)00139-5/fulltext

Puberty blockers are falsely claimed to cause infertility and to be irreversible, despite no substantiated evidence.

My life would be far worse right now if I had to wait until age 18 to get treatment. Listen to the many trans people who would and will be hurt by these policies. Please.

[Joe Republic]

I don't remember who this Robinson Crusoe person is or when I put them on ignore, but it looks like nothing of value was lost.  May I suggest others try to do the same?

[TheDeadFlagBlues]

What's the point in beating around the bush: arguments about "irreversible consequences for minors" are clever ways of concealing transphobic sentiment. If you think that dysphoria is a serious mental condition that can be alleviated through treatment of "transitioning" to a different gender presentation, this argument is totally unwarranted and nonsensical.

Many medical treatments are unnecessary and unwarranted but pursued anyways out of a belief that they are necessary. Mistakes are made and damage can be done. We do not see calls to outlaw various treatments because "the effects could be irreversible". We do not see anyone saying "electro shock therapy should be outlawed because the effects could be irreversible".

By and large, what I see here is a kind of stark bigotry, where various posters have decided that transgender people are probably fooling themselves or that parents who love their kids "don't know what's best". Who knows what's best? Strangers on the Internet who think that being transgender is probably some kind of fabricated hoax.

I think it's basically fair to raise concerns about these issues and I think parents should have authority. Also, you should be required to have a prescription to access these treatments and there should be regulations for minors.

[Saint Milei]

Imagine being upset at this lmao.

Okay, I'll bite. Why shouldn't I be? The bill will forcibly detransition me, as someone who can't afford hormones without insurance, and ban higher education from teaching trans healthcare, preventing new doctors from being informed about transgender people.

Wait until you're 18

I'm 21. Did you read the bill?

No I just read the op and some comments. If it stops people older than 18 from transitioning, that's not good

[Saint Milei]

Actually just show me where in the bill does it prohibit care for adults

[TheDeadFlagBlues]

I'll add this little fun anecdote: it isn't entirely uncommon for teenage boys to be prescribed 5AR inhibitors to treat hair loss. These drugs block hormones (DHT) to prevent hair loss. Dermatologists sometimes prescribe these drugs to minors. I don't see any outcry about "potentially reversible side effects" or anything like that. Now, one can argue that this is because few are aware that this is done, which is true, but I'll guess that even if everyone in America was made aware of this, there would be no outcry whatsoever.

To be clear, I think you'd be a really dense person, basically a moron, to take issue with this. Why? People should have autonomy over what they put into their own body. It's their life, not your life. Mind your own business and move on, sickos. That said, I think it's telling that there's a lot of controversy over "puberty blockers!!!" but no one is discussing "irreversible side-effects" of giving those of short stature human growth hormone (actually quite risky!) or this case or a myriad of others. I specifically selected these because they are cosmetic treatments not dissimilar to gender transition.

edit: I'll elaborate more on giving human growth hormone to teenagers who are of "idiopathic" short-stature since it's probably a better example. It's fairly dangerous to do this, whereas you can't really say that about my other example. "the risk of developing a cardiovascular event like a heart attack or stroke was two-thirds higher for men and twice as high for women than among 50,036 untreated but otherwise similar people." and this treatment is given to teenagers because they'll end up being shorter than average. It's totally cosmetic!

[Mr. Reactionary]

Actually just show me where in the bill does it prohibit care for adults

I think shes referring to where it prohibits federal money from paying for the treatments including for adults, rather than a ban on it altogether for adults.

[Saint Milei]

Actually just show me where in the bill does it prohibit care for adults

I think shes referring to where it prohibits federal money from paying for the treatments including for adults, rather than a ban on it altogether for adults.

Lmao nvm. dogsht bill

[T'Chenka]

Which is their considered opinion, whereas you are a poster on Atlas forum who....does what exactly? What on Earth gave you the impression that you have some special expertise to offer on these matters? Why should anyone trust you over a doctor who specializes in dealing with these matters?

Of course, never in history has the medical establishment been wrong about anything. We should just adhere to everything they say and not ask questions. Just listen to the experts and nod.

So basically, your argument is "my feelings / bias tell me that I shouldn't trust the experts on this". Compelling stuff.

[Horus]

Which is their considered opinion, whereas you are a poster on Atlas forum who....does what exactly? What on Earth gave you the impression that you have some special expertise to offer on these matters? Why should anyone trust you over a doctor who specializes in dealing with these matters?

Of course, never in history has the medical establishment been wrong about anything. We should just adhere to everything they say and not ask questions. Just listen to the experts and nod.

So basically, your argument is "my feelings / bias tell me that I shouldn't trust the experts on this". Compelling stuff.

You're assuming all experts have a hive minded agreement on this matter which couldn't be further from the truth either.

[7,052,770]

Of course, never in history has the medical establishment been wrong about anything. We should just adhere to everything they say and not ask questions. Just listen to the experts and nod.

It is other medical experts who should be challenging the consensus, not random lay people who don't really know what they're talking about, instead relying on feelings and political views.

[Horus]

Of course, never in history has the medical establishment been wrong about anything. We should just adhere to everything they say and not ask questions. Just listen to the experts and nod.

It is other medical experts who should be challenging the consensus, not random lay people who don't really know what they're talking about, instead relying on feelings and political views.

In that case no one without a post doctorate in endocrinology or whatever should be commenting on gender affirming care for minors.

[T'Chenka]

Which is their considered opinion, whereas you are a poster on Atlas forum who....does what exactly? What on Earth gave you the impression that you have some special expertise to offer on these matters? Why should anyone trust you over a doctor who specializes in dealing with these matters?

Of course, never in history has the medical establishment been wrong about anything. We should just adhere to everything they say and not ask questions. Just listen to the experts and nod.

So basically, your argument is "my feelings / bias tell me that I shouldn't trust the experts on this". Compelling stuff.

You're assuming all experts have a hive minded agreement on this matter which couldn't be further from the truth either.

Nah. I know opinions differ, but I have yet to see a non-fringe faction of experts who aren't hacks claim that the possible side effects are dangerous enough that puberty blockers and HRT should not be given to kids. Are their factions that claim kids and their families should be heavily warned about the pros and cons before deciding? Sure. I actually agree with that faction.