Will Turkey and Hungary Sign Off on Admitting Finland and Sweden Into NATO?

[Frodo]

They seem to be taking their sweet time.... 

[No War, but the War on Christmas]

I’m honestly done with both these authoritarian drama queens, it should’ve been a 2 for 2 trade for Sweden and Finland.

[NewYorkExpress]

Hungary won't. Viktor Orban is like Trump, literally taking orders from Moscow.

I think Turkey eventually does.

[CumbrianLefty]

Orban probably wouldn't if it was just down to him.

Which is why he needs to be pressured into doing the right thing.

[SnowLabrador]

I’m honestly done with both these authoritarian drama queens, it should’ve been a 2 for 2 trade for Sweden and Finland.

[LAKISYLVANIA]

I'm not sure why we just can't kick them from every European institution.

Turkey probably eventually will (and Erdogan is likely to lose the next election). But Hungary has no place here. If the Hungarians really want to be in the EU for a longer time, they should vote Orban out. If they vote for Orban, they should leave.

Orban is also a pussy, stop profiting from Europe if you're against it, and leave the EU instead of being critical and authoritarian while still taking its benefits.

There should be consequences, and Hungary in this state has absolutely no place in the EU or NATO.

Also veto rights are ridicilous, it's one of the reasons why the EU doesn't work as it should work, because none of the good proposals get through because there's always some nation that is against. Anti-EU people can literally boost Euroskepticism by voting against good proposals. The EU is largely seen as ineffective and this is a common critic, but whose fault is it.

Obviously the EU also should be less bureaucratic and more directly democratic, and should also be more aware of serving its people, instead of serving high business interests primarily, but that's the case for every western power. It isn't gonna change in the UK for example, even if they left the EU. For that, the system needs to change. It's why i'm at the end in favour of European integration and some extent even federalisation, but it should be more democratic & more socialist & more independent from foreign powers, instead of being reliant on others, or being US sidekick (and pulling weird faces towards Trump when he somehow suggested we should contribute more to NATO... that was definitely disrespectful. It also means standing up when a foreign leader doesn't offer you a chair because of your gender because principles matter).

[Isaak]

Of course, they will.

Türkiye is a safe bet as long as Sweden/Finland stick to their end of the bargain, extradite criminals and PKK terrorists (what they already do) and give the needed guarantees.

Hungary will also ratify in the end. Órban likes to play the troublemaker in European affairs but he has no reason to fight a battle that promises no real political gain. Especially not since the U.S. is so strongly in favor of admission.

[Lord Halifax]

Türkiye

lol

[Coldstream]

Turkey will, despite everything Erdogan prefers the West to Russia.

Orban will eventually, he knows that he has no support in the West at all and that if he overplays his hand the money tap will get turned off.

Though frankly I’d throw both of them out and take Finland & Sweden that way.

[FEMA Camp Administrator]

I’m honestly done with both these authoritarian drama queens, it should’ve been a 2 for 2 trade for Sweden and Finland.

Oh yeah I really want my alliance to cede control of the Bosporous.

[CumbrianLefty]

Erdogan has been more bark than bite over this so far, hopefully that will continue.

[TheReckoning]

I’m honestly done with both these authoritarian drama queens, it should’ve been a 2 for 2 trade for Sweden and Finland.

Oh yeah I really want my alliance to cede control of the Bosporous.

And to have an ostracized country right in the heart of continent.

[Frodo]

Expert: Finland, Sweden NATO accession not likely till next summer

[Kahane's Grave Is A Gender-Neutral Bathroom]

I'm not sure why we just can't kick them from every European institution.

Turkey probably eventually will (and Erdogan is likely to lose the next election). But Hungary has no place here. If the Hungarians really want to be in the EU for a longer time, they should vote Orban out. If they vote for Orban, they should leave.

Orban is also a pussy, stop profiting from Europe if you're against it, and leave the EU instead of being critical and authoritarian while still taking its benefits.

There should be consequences, and Hungary in this state has absolutely no place in the EU or NATO.

Also veto rights are ridicilous, it's one of the reasons why the EU doesn't work as it should work, because none of the good proposals get through because there's always some nation that is against. Anti-EU people can literally boost Euroskepticism by voting against good proposals. The EU is largely seen as ineffective and this is a common critic, but whose fault is it.

Obviously the EU also should be less bureaucratic and more directly democratic, and should also be more aware of serving its people, instead of serving high business interests primarily, but that's the case for every western power. It isn't gonna change in the UK for example, even if they left the EU. For that, the system needs to change. It's why i'm at the end in favour of European integration and some extent even federalisation, but it should be more democratic & more socialist & more independent from foreign powers, instead of being reliant on others, or being US sidekick (and pulling weird faces towards Trump when he somehow suggested we should contribute more to NATO... that was definitely disrespectful. It also means standing up when a foreign leader doesn't offer you a chair because of your gender because principles matter).

Turkey is important with the whole strait thing, and Erdogan looks likely to lose in 2023. I think two for two is fair though, so let's do Sweden and Finland for Hungary and Belgium.

As you mentioned, Belgium does enough for NATO, so I don't see why they can't be on their own. Ya'll hate us anyway.

This is a win for everyone- countries that are under threat from an authoritarian regime get security, and sh**tposters from Menen can simp for Russia on r/GenZedong complaining about how everything America does is bad and how the worst thing that ever happened to you was a Jew being Prime Minister of Belgium.

[Conservatopia]

I'm not sure why we just can't kick them from every European institution.

Turkey probably eventually will (and Erdogan is likely to lose the next election). But Hungary has no place here. If the Hungarians really want to be in the EU for a longer time, they should vote Orban out. If they vote for Orban, they should leave.

Orban is also a pussy, stop profiting from Europe if you're against it, and leave the EU instead of being critical and authoritarian while still taking its benefits.

There should be consequences, and Hungary in this state has absolutely no place in the EU or NATO.

Also veto rights are ridicilous, it's one of the reasons why the EU doesn't work as it should work, because none of the good proposals get through because there's always some nation that is against. Anti-EU people can literally boost Euroskepticism by voting against good proposals. The EU is largely seen as ineffective and this is a common critic, but whose fault is it.

Obviously the EU also should be less bureaucratic and more directly democratic, and should also be more aware of serving its people, instead of serving high business interests primarily, but that's the case for every western power. It isn't gonna change in the UK for example, even if they left the EU. For that, the system needs to change. It's why i'm at the end in favour of European integration and some extent even federalisation, but it should be more democratic & more socialist & more independent from foreign powers, instead of being reliant on others, or being US sidekick (and pulling weird faces towards Trump when he somehow suggested we should contribute more to NATO... that was definitely disrespectful. It also means standing up when a foreign leader doesn't offer you a chair because of your gender because principles matter).

Turkey is important with the whole strait thing, and Erdogan looks likely to lose in 2023. I think two for two is fair though, so let's do Sweden and Finland for Hungary and Belgium.

As you mentioned, Belgium does enough for NATO, so I don't see why they can't be on their own. Ya'll hate us anyway.

This is a win for everyone- countries that are under threat from an authoritarian regime get security, and sh**tposters from Menen can simp for Russia on r/GenZedong complaining about how everything America does is bad and how the worst thing that ever happened to you was a Jew being Prime Minister of Belgium.

I've never seen so much ignorance in one post before.

[Kahane's Grave Is A Gender-Neutral Bathroom]

I'm not sure why we just can't kick them from every European institution.

Turkey probably eventually will (and Erdogan is likely to lose the next election). But Hungary has no place here. If the Hungarians really want to be in the EU for a longer time, they should vote Orban out. If they vote for Orban, they should leave.

Orban is also a pussy, stop profiting from Europe if you're against it, and leave the EU instead of being critical and authoritarian while still taking its benefits.

There should be consequences, and Hungary in this state has absolutely no place in the EU or NATO.

Also veto rights are ridicilous, it's one of the reasons why the EU doesn't work as it should work, because none of the good proposals get through because there's always some nation that is against. Anti-EU people can literally boost Euroskepticism by voting against good proposals. The EU is largely seen as ineffective and this is a common critic, but whose fault is it.

Obviously the EU also should be less bureaucratic and more directly democratic, and should also be more aware of serving its people, instead of serving high business interests primarily, but that's the case for every western power. It isn't gonna change in the UK for example, even if they left the EU. For that, the system needs to change. It's why i'm at the end in favour of European integration and some extent even federalisation, but it should be more democratic & more socialist & more independent from foreign powers, instead of being reliant on others, or being US sidekick (and pulling weird faces towards Trump when he somehow suggested we should contribute more to NATO... that was definitely disrespectful. It also means standing up when a foreign leader doesn't offer you a chair because of your gender because principles matter).

Turkey is important with the whole strait thing, and Erdogan looks likely to lose in 2023. I think two for two is fair though, so let's do Sweden and Finland for Hungary and Belgium.

As you mentioned, Belgium does enough for NATO, so I don't see why they can't be on their own. Ya'll hate us anyway.

This is a win for everyone- countries that are under threat from an authoritarian regime get security, and sh**tposters from Menen can simp for Russia on r/GenZedong complaining about how everything America does is bad and how the worst thing that ever happened to you was a Jew being Prime Minister of Belgium.

I've never seen so much ignorance in one post before.

Laki is an anti-Semitic sh**tposter from Menen. That's not ignorant.

Most people in Europe hate America (and it's not entirely unjustified). That's not ignorant.

[MaxQue]

I'm not sure why we just can't kick them from every European institution.

Turkey probably eventually will (and Erdogan is likely to lose the next election). But Hungary has no place here. If the Hungarians really want to be in the EU for a longer time, they should vote Orban out. If they vote for Orban, they should leave.

Orban is also a pussy, stop profiting from Europe if you're against it, and leave the EU instead of being critical and authoritarian while still taking its benefits.

There should be consequences, and Hungary in this state has absolutely no place in the EU or NATO.

Also veto rights are ridicilous, it's one of the reasons why the EU doesn't work as it should work, because none of the good proposals get through because there's always some nation that is against. Anti-EU people can literally boost Euroskepticism by voting against good proposals. The EU is largely seen as ineffective and this is a common critic, but whose fault is it.

Obviously the EU also should be less bureaucratic and more directly democratic, and should also be more aware of serving its people, instead of serving high business interests primarily, but that's the case for every western power. It isn't gonna change in the UK for example, even if they left the EU. For that, the system needs to change. It's why i'm at the end in favour of European integration and some extent even federalisation, but it should be more democratic & more socialist & more independent from foreign powers, instead of being reliant on others, or being US sidekick (and pulling weird faces towards Trump when he somehow suggested we should contribute more to NATO... that was definitely disrespectful. It also means standing up when a foreign leader doesn't offer you a chair because of your gender because principles matter).

Turkey is important with the whole strait thing, and Erdogan looks likely to lose in 2023. I think two for two is fair though, so let's do Sweden and Finland for Hungary and Belgium.

As you mentioned, Belgium does enough for NATO, so I don't see why they can't be on their own. Ya'll hate us anyway.

This is a win for everyone- countries that are under threat from an authoritarian regime get security, and sh**tposters from Menen can simp for Russia on r/GenZedong complaining about how everything America does is bad and how the worst thing that ever happened to you was a Jew being Prime Minister of Belgium.

I've never seen so much ignorance in one post before.

Laki is an anti-Semitic sh**tposter from Menen. That's not ignorant.

Most people in Europe hate America (and it's not entirely unjustified). That's not ignorant.

NATO is headquartered and based in Belgium. That's ignorant.

[Helsinkian]

The Hungarian opposition tried to get a vote in the parliament on the NATO admission of Finland and Sweden. Fidesz MPs blocked the vote.

Then today we hear that Hungary has negotiated a "deferred payment plan" for Russian gas -- basically they don't have to pay anything for it next winter.

So yeah, Orbán is bought and paid for. I just wonder how the Hungarian people can reconcile this blatant russophilia with the memory of 1956.

And Turkey is still demanding extraditions of dissidents. Turkey and Hungary are the only countries not to have ratified, but I would not expect much progress in the next few months.

[Storr]

Tweet thread from a Hungarian journalist:

https://twitter.com/panyiszabolcs/status/1576962998630985729?s=20&t=EsJLtxIr...

https://twitter.com/panyiszabolcs/status/1576967111993278464?s=20&t=EsJLtxIr...

https://twitter.com/panyiszabolcs/status/1576970194421182464?s=20&t=EsJLtxIr...

https://twitter.com/panyiszabolcs/status/1576974419464835077?s=20&t=EsJLtxIr...

[Torie]

What is the time table to bounce Hungary from NATO?

[Alben Barkley]

It will happen eventually. The US can be very, VERY persuasive.

[Coldstream]

Expel Turkey & Hungary and substitute Sweden and Finland. See how well Orban does without Western money propping him up.

[TiltsAreUnderrated]

Expel Turkey & Hungary and substitute Sweden and Finland. See how well Orban does without Western money propping him up.

Turkey isn't going to be expelled. Orban knows very well that Hungary might be if they are the only roadblock, so he will simply drag his feet unless/until Turkey is no longer obstructing Finland and Sweden.

[Lord Halifax]

Expel Turkey & Hungary and substitute Sweden and Finland. See how well Orban does without Western money propping him up.

Turkey isn't going to be expelled. Orban knows very well that Hungary might be if they are the only roadblock, so he will simply drag his feet unless/until Turkey is no longer obstructing Finland and Sweden.

It's very complicated. There are no provisions in the North Atlantic Treaty for suspension of membership rights or expulsion of a member.

You'd need to claim that a member state is in material breach of the treaty, and that it is severe and persistent enough to effectively repudiate the treaty. The other NATO member states would then be entitled to suspend the operation of the treaty "in whole or in part" or to terminate it either in their relations with the defaulting state or generally, but all of that would require a unanimous decision of the North Atlantic Council (excl. the offending state). I'm not sure e.g. Croatia or Bulgaria would support such radical measures against Hungary even if Turkey agreed to them.

[Isaak]

Expel Turkey & Hungary and substitute Sweden and Finland. See how well Orban does without Western money propping him up.

Turkey isn't going to be expelled. Orban knows very well that Hungary might be if they are the only roadblock, so he will simply drag his feet unless/until Turkey is no longer obstructing Finland and Sweden.

It's very complicated. There are no provisions in the North Atlantic Treaty for suspension of membership rights or expulsion of a member.

You'd need to claim that a member state is in material breach of the treaty, and that it is severe and persistent enough to effectively repudiate the treaty. The other NATO member states would then be entitled to suspend the operation of the treaty "in whole or in part" or to terminate it either in their relations with the defaulting state or generally, but all of that would require a unanimous decision of the North Atlantic Council (excl. the offending state). I'm not sure e.g. Croatia or Bulgaria would support such radical measures against Hungary even if Turkey agreed to them.

In fact, even the idea is absurd. No NATO member is obliged to support enlargement let alone ratifying the accession of membership candidates. That's entirely their decision – and if they don't want to, they're well within their rights.

Finland and Sweden are applicants, nothing more. They have no God-given right to join within a specific time period.

That being said, delaying the process is not the same as rejecting it; I am still convinced that both will ultimately come on board.
___

PS: General remark, but "Expel X from NATO/Expel Y from EU/Sanction Z/Nuke them all" is not how politics are conducted in the real world. This also applies to all these maximalist positions when it comes to Ukraine.