Florida schools ordered to disobey federal LGBTQ protections

[Ferguson97]

Also holding up Bill “kids are faking being trans to be cool” Maher as a gold standard to be bringing into this area of discussion is quite silly

It's such a dumb premise. Tens of millions people want to see every LGBT person in this country dead, and these jackasses think that coming out gives them social clout? It's delusional.

[DaleCooper]

Also holding up Bill “kids are faking being trans to be cool” Maher as a gold standard to be bringing into this area of discussion is quite silly

It's such a dumb premise. Tens of millions people want to see every LGBT person in this country dead, and these jackasses think that coming out gives them social clout? It's delusional.

Is there polling data on this?

[SWE]

This is a misleading title as they are not violating federal law but instead arguing that Biden’s executive order does not have the authority to override  state law .

On one hand, Florida is unambiguously ordering its teachers to violate the law. On the other hand, Florida is saying that it isn't violating the law. Crazy how OP didn't acknowledge these two, equally strong point in the thread title

[Ferguson97]

Also holding up Bill “kids are faking being trans to be cool” Maher as a gold standard to be bringing into this area of discussion is quite silly

It's such a dumb premise. Tens of millions people want to see every LGBT person in this country dead, and these jackasses think that coming out gives them social clout? It's delusional.

Is there polling data on this?

In this day and age, people generally won't outright admit that they want to see a group of people dead.

[DaleCooper]

Also holding up Bill “kids are faking being trans to be cool” Maher as a gold standard to be bringing into this area of discussion is quite silly

It's such a dumb premise. Tens of millions people want to see every LGBT person in this country dead, and these jackasses think that coming out gives them social clout? It's delusional.

Is there polling data on this?

In this day and age, people generally won't outright admit that they want to see a group of people dead.

Do you have ESP?

[7,052,770]

Reminder that OSR's progressive belief that schools should recognize students' gender transition upon parental request is in stark contrast to Florida's law. He is defending the party and politicians that consider him to be a groomer and supporter of child molestation, and would be vocally saying so if he were more than just a random internet poster they've never heard of.

[OSR stands with Israel]

Also holding up Bill “kids are faking being trans to be cool” Maher as a gold standard to be bringing into this area of discussion is quite silly

It's such a dumb premise. Tens of millions people want to see every LGBT person in this country dead, and these jackasses think that coming out gives them social clout? It's delusional.

This is Beyond hyperbole

[Ferguson97]

Also holding up Bill “kids are faking being trans to be cool” Maher as a gold standard to be bringing into this area of discussion is quite silly

It's such a dumb premise. Tens of millions people want to see every LGBT person in this country dead, and these jackasses think that coming out gives them social clout? It's delusional.

This is Beyond hyperbole

I don't understand how you could possibly deny this. I'm not even saying this is true about a majority of Republicans. 20,000,000 is like 6% of the population. You don't think 20M people are homophobic enough to want to kill every LGBT person in the country?

[7,052,770]

20,000,000 might be a bit high, but to describe it as "beyond hyperbole" like the number is way, way lower than that is kinda ridiculous. Granted, OSR lives in "liberal Portland suburbia" where even the conservatives like him think it's OK for an elementary school student to gender transition, so likely he just doesn't have a clear perspective on how the people in red states typically think.

[OSR stands with Israel]

Also holding up Bill “kids are faking being trans to be cool” Maher as a gold standard to be bringing into this area of discussion is quite silly

It's such a dumb premise. Tens of millions people want to see every LGBT person in this country dead, and these jackasses think that coming out gives them social clout? It's delusional.

This is Beyond hyperbole

I don't understand how you could possibly deny this. I'm not even saying this is true about a majority of Republicans. 20,000,000 is like 6% of the population. You don't think 20M people are homophobic enough to want to kill every LGBT person in the country?

No they are not

[Brittain33]

Also holding up Bill “kids are faking being trans to be cool” Maher as a gold standard to be bringing into this area of discussion is quite silly

Yes, Bill Maher is a spokesman for the left the same way Ana Navarro or Jennifer Rubin speak for Republicans.

[OSR stands with Israel]

20,000,000 might be a bit high, but to describe it as "beyond hyperbole" like the number is way, way lower than that is kinda ridiculous. Granted, OSR lives in "liberal Portland suburbia" where even the conservatives like him think it's OK for an elementary school student to gender transition, so likely he just doesn't have a clear perspective on how the people in red states typically think.

I also think staff members should not be allowed to mention the idea a kid  May be off a different gender as well without getting permission from parents to even bring it up .

[7,052,770]

20,000,000 might be a bit high, but to describe it as "beyond hyperbole" like the number is way, way lower than that is kinda ridiculous. Granted, OSR lives in "liberal Portland suburbia" where even the conservatives like him think it's OK for an elementary school student to gender transition, so likely he just doesn't have a clear perspective on how the people in red states typically think.

I also think staff members should not be allowed to mention the idea a kid  May be off a different gender as well without getting permission from parents to even bring it up .

Sounds cool to me. Obviously teachers should not be encouraging cisgender kids to identify as trans. (Talk about fixing a nonexistent problem though.)

You're still a "groomer" to your hero Ron DeSantis.

[OSR stands with Israel]

20,000,000 might be a bit high, but to describe it as "beyond hyperbole" like the number is way, way lower than that is kinda ridiculous. Granted, OSR lives in "liberal Portland suburbia" where even the conservatives like him think it's OK for an elementary school student to gender transition, so likely he just doesn't have a clear perspective on how the people in red states typically think.

I also athink staff members should not be allowed to mention the idea a kid  May be off a different gender as well without getting permission from parents to even bring it up .

Sounds cool to me. Obviously teachers should not be encouraging cisgender kids to identify as trans. (Talk about fixing a nonexistent problem though.)

You're still a "groomer" to your hero Ron DeSantis.

Some of the problem is when kids go through depression, staff members or school therapists bring up the idea they may be trans and this should be severely limited .

[Alben Barkley]

Also holding up Bill “kids are faking being trans to be cool” Maher as a gold standard to be bringing into this area of discussion is quite silly

ROGD is a very real thing. It’s not the same as “faking it to be cool.” It’s just been known for time immemorial that teens, especially teen girls, are intensely vulnerable to peer pressure. And anyone who thinks the like 9000% increase in FTM trans identified females in that age group over the past few years, especially in cliques/groups, is just some natural coincidence is probably being intentionally dense.

[DaleCooper]

20,000,000 might be a bit high, but to describe it as "beyond hyperbole" like the number is way, way lower than that is kinda ridiculous. Granted, OSR lives in "liberal Portland suburbia" where even the conservatives like him think it's OK for an elementary school student to gender transition, so likely he just doesn't have a clear perspective on how the people in red states typically think.

I also think staff members should not be allowed to mention the idea a kid  May be off a different gender as well without getting permission from parents to even bring it up .

Sounds cool to me. Obviously teachers should not be encouraging cisgender kids to identify as trans. (Talk about fixing a nonexistent problem though.)

You're still a "groomer" to your hero Ron DeSantis.

A lot  of the problem is when kids go through depression, staff members or school therapists bring up the idea they may be trans and this should be severely limited .

Usually it's the parents or the kids themselves that have decided they are transgender and then look for a therapist who will affirm that and prescribe drugs for transition. I've never heard of a school counselor suggesting to depressed students that they are transgender. I have heard of situations where the kid has come out as transgender at school and then by the time the parents find out about it the kid has been going by a different name and pronouns for months at school already, but that's a different situation than what you are describing.

[Alben Barkley]

Also holding up Bill “kids are faking being trans to be cool” Maher as a gold standard to be bringing into this area of discussion is quite silly

It's such a dumb premise. Tens of millions people want to see every LGBT person in this country dead, and these jackasses think that coming out gives them social clout? It's delusional.

This is Beyond hyperbole

I don't understand how you could possibly deny this. I'm not even saying this is true about a majority of Republicans. 20,000,000 is like 6% of the population. You don't think 20M people are homophobic enough to want to kill every LGBT person in the country?

No I don’t, and I think the fact that you do is insane.

20,000,000 might be a bit high, but to describe it as "beyond hyperbole" like the number is way, way lower than that is kinda ridiculous. Granted, OSR lives in "liberal Portland suburbia" where even the conservatives like him think it's OK for an elementary school student to gender transition, so likely he just doesn't have a clear perspective on how the people in red states typically think.

To me it’s the people like Ferguson who seem to have never stepped in a red state in their lives who don’t understand how they think. Not even close to that many, even the most bigoted rednecks, literally want to genocide LGBT people. The types of people who might actually think that are such a small section of the country they are probably just in a circle Venn Diagram with open Neo-Nazis. It’s possible to think LGBT is sinful or even be disgusted by it without literally wanting to murder them all. If there were really that many who did there would be a lot more hate crimes than there actually are.

[7,052,770]

I guess there's also the difference in actively wanting all LGBT people dead vs. not having a problem with it if it happened.

The second bucket is probably an 8-digit number of Americans, while the first may be a 6-digit number.

[OSR stands with Israel]

20,000,000 might be a bit high, but to describe it as "beyond hyperbole" like the number is way, way lower than that is kinda ridiculous. Granted, OSR lives in "liberal Portland suburbia" where even the conservatives like him think it's OK for an elementary school student to gender transition, so likely he just doesn't have a clear perspective on how the people in red states typically think.

I also think staff members should not be allowed to mention the idea a kid  May be off a different gender as well without getting permission from parents to even bring it up .

Sounds cool to me. Obviously teachers should not be encouraging cisgender kids to identify as trans. (Talk about fixing a nonexistent problem though.)

You're still a "groomer" to your hero Ron DeSantis.

A lot  of the problem is when kids go through depression, staff members or school therapists bring up the idea they may be trans and this should be severely limited .

Usually it's the parents or the kids themselves that have decided they are transgender and then look for a therapist who will affirm that and prescribe drugs for transition. I've never heard of a school counselor suggesting to depressed students that they are transgender. I have heard of situations where the kid has come out as transgender at school and then by the time the parents find out about it the kid has been going by a different name and pronouns for months at school already, but that's a different situation than what you are describing.

I have heard of that though albeit it’s less of an occurrence then the situation you described and my policy proposal is mainly aimed to stop that as well(I shouldn’t have described it as a lot and will edit it )  .

[Ferguson97]

To me it’s the people like Ferguson who seem to have never stepped in a red state in their lives who don’t understand how they think. Not even close to that many, even the most bigoted rednecks, literally want to genocide LGBT people. The types of people who might actually think that are such a small section of the country they are probably just in a circle Venn Diagram with open Neo-Nazis. It’s possible to think LGBT is sinful or even be disgusted by it without literally wanting to murder them all. If there were really that many who did there would be a lot more hate crimes than there actually are.

There are many violent bigots who don't go on to commit hate crimes because they don't want to go to jail. They may definitely want to kill LGBT people, but they're not going to actually go through with it, because they know that they'll have to face consequences for their actions. Just like there are millions of men who would rape a woman if they were guaranteed to get away with it.

Absent the rule of law, LGBT Americans would be at immense risk of being murdered. And that goes for other minority groups as well - religious and racial minorities would be lynched by mobs. Millions of women would be raped and killed.

Again, we agree that this is a small portion of conservatives and a small portion of bigots who think like this. But it's way more people than you think. And you certainly aren't one of these people. You're transphobic, but I don't think that you're violently transphobic. You will never hurt anyone.

There's a reason that the anti-trans conservative movement is gaining momentum, and there's a reason that they're using dehumanizing language and accusing them of heinous crimes against children. That's how they're going to justify their crusade. "These trans people want to groom and molest your children. You think someone like that deserves to live?" You have to be blind to not see what's happening in front of you.

[Saint Milei]

good move

[The Undefeatable Debbie Stabenow]

Also holding up Bill “kids are faking being trans to be cool” Maher as a gold standard to be bringing into this area of discussion is quite silly

ROGD is a very real thing. It’s not the same as “faking it to be cool.” It’s just been known for time immemorial that teens, especially teen girls, are intensely vulnerable to peer pressure. And anyone who thinks the like 9000% increase in FTM trans identified females in that age group over the past few years, especially in cliques/groups, is just some natural coincidence is probably being intentionally dense.

Hmmmmm, tough to decide whose word I should take on this... your word, or the American Psychological Association and the American Psychiatric Association's word? You know, the groups that (among many other credible medical organizations) have explicitly stated that ROGD is not substantiated and is inappropriate to consider in clinical settings? Or we can turn to the most credible study on this topic by the Journal of Pediatrics, which once again contradicts the ROGD narrative.

An increase of a certain behavior within a population is not a smoking gun that peer pressure is causing people to do it, period.

[The Undefeatable Debbie Stabenow]

And to everyone arguing about whether large swaths of conservatives want LGBT+ people dead:

No, there is certainly not a significant contigent of Americans who would support an actual genocide or want to see people murdered. However, there is a significant contigent of people who think that LGBT+ people exist to the detriment of American society and who would be happier if they woke up one day and LGBT+ people had magically disappeared.

[No War, but the War on Christmas]

This thread is basically Queer peoples lived experiences and reality vs. OSR going 'actually guys, it's not that bad'.

[T'Chenka]

This thread is basically Queer peoples lived experiences and reality vs. OSR going 'actually guys, it's not that bad'.

I asked OSR this before (about sex ed) and never got a direct response :

So you think all of the extra teen mothers and abortions and STD epidemics are worth it so that socially conservative parents aren't triggered when their kid brings home a note that they aren't even going to sign anyways? I'm not trying to "own" you, I'm seriously asking.

I think it just comes down to Republicans often not understanding the gravity of bad things happening to people they don't personally know or have strong relationships with, so they tend to put too much weight on the grievances they have personal experience with and not enough weight on grievances that seem abstract to them. I could be 100% wrong here, and I can't read people's minds, but there is SOME evidence from studies that right wingers are comparatively more likely to think this way than people who aren't right wingers.