Biden admin offers famous convicted Russian arms dealer (Viktor Bout) exchange for Griner, Whelan

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

If you oppose a prisoner swap, would you rather do one of these things?

• Leave her there for her entire sentence
• Send in a special forces team to extract her from the prison
• Bribe the prison administrator to "let her escape" and have the CIA smuggle her out of the country

• Once Russia is fully defeated and has to withdraw from Ukraine offer to lift the sanctions in exchange for her.

[Stand With Israel. Crush Hamas]

If you oppose a prisoner swap, would you rather do one of these things?

• Leave her there for her entire sentence
• Send in a special forces team to extract her from the prison
• Bribe the prison administrator to "let her escape" and have the CIA smuggle her out of the country

• Once Russia is fully defeated and has to withdraw from Ukraine offer to lift the sanctions in exchange for her.

Not only could that be several years, but there's every chance that Putin just starts massacring foreign prisoners at some point when he seems to be on his last legs.

If someone opposes a prisoner swap on principle, they have to be okay with the likelihood that we get back her body eventually in the same way we did Otto Warmbier's.

[Schiff for Senate]

If you oppose a prisoner swap, would you rather do one of these things?

• Leave her there for her entire sentence
• Send in a special forces team to extract her from the prison
• Bribe the prison administrator to "let her escape" and have the CIA smuggle her out of the country

Out of these three, the first one. She knew the risk and can serve as a powerful example of what happens when you decide to go to Russia in the middle of a war.

[Chancellor Tanterterg]

If you oppose a prisoner swap, would you rather do one of these things?

• Leave her there for her entire sentence
• Send in a special forces team to extract her from the prison
• Bribe the prison administrator to "let her escape" and have the CIA smuggle her out of the country

Out of these?  The first one and it’s really a no-brainer.  Exchanging her for Bout is 2+2 = 22 level idiotic.

If you oppose a prisoner swap, would you rather do one of these things?

• Leave her there for her entire sentence
• Send in a special forces team to extract her from the prison
• Bribe the prison administrator to "let her escape" and have the CIA smuggle her out of the country

Out of these three, the first one. She knew the risk and can serve as a powerful example of what happens when you decide to go to Russia in the middle of a war.

Also, this is just objectively an extraordinarily bad trade for us.  A major arms dealer for some random athlete is just not a worthwhile prisoner swap for us.  I don’t mean to be overly harsh, but this does matter.  We’d be trading an extremely high value prisoner for an extremely low value one.  Plus, rewarding Russia like this for kidnapping American citizens sets a very dangerous precedent.  Maybe next time, Russia will abduct some other American and demand Assange’s release in exchange?  I mean, it worked once, right?  

Finally, even if you support the swap, there was no talk of prisoner swaps when an American no one had heard of was imprisoned, but some random athlete gets arrested and suddenly we’ll trade anyone to secure her release?  What a load of BS!

[Schiff for Senate]

If you oppose a prisoner swap, would you rather do one of these things?

• Leave her there for her entire sentence
• Send in a special forces team to extract her from the prison
• Bribe the prison administrator to "let her escape" and have the CIA smuggle her out of the country

Out of these?  The first one and it’s really a no-brainer.  Exchanging her for Bout is 2+2 = 22 level idiotic.

If you oppose a prisoner swap, would you rather do one of these things?

• Leave her there for her entire sentence
• Send in a special forces team to extract her from the prison
• Bribe the prison administrator to "let her escape" and have the CIA smuggle her out of the country

Out of these three, the first one. She knew the risk and can serve as a powerful example of what happens when you decide to go to Russia in the middle of a war.

Also, this is just objectively an extraordinarily bad trade for us (a major arms dealer for some random athlete, not to be overly harsh but this does matter).  

Absolutely agreed. And I do think that even if we ARE going to release Bout, he’s really not worth just 2 people. I would say wait and see. It’s very possible more idiots go to Russia and get arrested. If there are more people, then giving up Bout in exchange for all of them might not be a bad trade. But for just these two? Honestly not worth releasing a dangerous arms dealer. See if more Americans go to Russia first and if Russia is willing to give more than just 2 people in exchange for Bout. And if they aren’t, or if no other American gets captured, really just keep Bout under lock and key 🔐 instead of going with this terrible and one sided exchange.

[Horus]

Why her specifically? She's not the only person imprisoned overseas under questionable circumstances. Is it the fame? Pretty gross and elitist if so.

[Stand With Israel. Crush Hamas]

Why her specifically? She's not the only person imprisoned overseas under questionable circumstances. Is it the fame? Pretty gross and elitist if so.

She's a famous black lesbian and a lot of people on the left are blaming the US for her plight because she gets paid so much less than an NBA star of equivalent prestige. Fair or not, this puts a lot of pressure on Biden to get her home to calm tensions with his base of support.

[ηєω ƒяσηтιєя]

She's a famous black lesbian and a lot of people on the left are blaming the US for her plight because she gets paid so much less than an NBA star of equivalent prestige. Fair or not, this puts a lot of pressure on Biden to get her home to calm tensions with his base of support.

People who make this argument don't understand supply & demand nor do they understand revenue.

The NBA (which financially supports the WNBA, btw) makes an EXPONENTIALLY HIGHER amount of revenue than the WNBA and thus is able to pay it's athletes higher salaries. Also, WAAAAAAAAAAAAAYYYYYYYYY more people watch the NBA and buy NBA merchandize than those who do the same for the WNBA.

The MLS (the top men's soccer league in the US) doesn't pay players the same salary as the Big Four leagues (NFL, NBA, MLB, NHL) and no one bats an eye. That's because the MLS has much lower revenue and ratings than the Big Four.

Also, let's not ignore the big elephant in the room. Women (on average/in general) do NOT watch the WNBA (and women's sports at large). The overwhelming majority of WNBA TV viewers are actually men. If more women watched the WNBA then that would mean more $$$ for WNBA and thus higher salaries for the players.

Finally, the amount of women who watch sports/are avid sports fans is MUCH LOWER than the amount of men who watch sports/are avid sports fans.

[Stand With Israel. Crush Hamas]

She's a famous black lesbian and a lot of people on the left are blaming the US for her plight because she gets paid so much less than an NBA star of equivalent prestige. Fair or not, this puts a lot of pressure on Biden to get her home to calm tensions with his base of support.

People who make this argument don't understand supply & demand nor do they understand revenue.

The NBA (which financially supports the WNBA, btw) makes an EXPONENTIALLY HIGHER amount of revenue than the WNBA and thus is able to pay it's athletes higher salaries. Also, WAAAAAAAAAAAAAYYYYYYYYY more people watch the NBA and buy NBA merchandize than those who do the same for the WNBA.

The MLS (the top men's soccer league in the US) doesn't pay players the same salary as the Big Four leagues (NFL, NBA, MLB, NHL) and no one bats an eye. That's because the MLS has much lower revenue and ratings than the Big Four.

Also, let's not ignore the big elephant in the room. Women (on average/in general) do NOT watch the WNBA (and women's sports at large). The overwhelming majority of WNBA TV viewers are actually men. If more women watched the WNBA then that would mean more $$$ for WNBA and thus higher salaries for the players.

Finally, the amount of women who watch sports/are avid sports fans is MUCH LOWER than the amount of men who watch sports/are avid sports fans.

All accurate, but this doesn't change the fact that it's become an emotionally-charged issue and if Biden is seen as failing/abandoning her, the whole party could wind up paying a price in turnout.

[○∙◄☻¥tπ[╪AV┼cVê└]

If you oppose a prisoner swap, would you rather do one of these things?

• Leave her there for her entire sentence
• Send in a special forces team to extract her from the prison
• Bribe the prison administrator to "let her escape" and have the CIA smuggle her out of the country

That second one isn't happening. Iran did a much more straight-forward version of the 3rd option, which was just have bail at $500k a person.

[Chancellor Tanterterg]

She's a famous black lesbian and a lot of people on the left are blaming the US for her plight because she gets paid so much less than an NBA star of equivalent prestige. Fair or not, this puts a lot of pressure on Biden to get her home to calm tensions with his base of support.

People who make this argument don't understand supply & demand nor do they understand revenue.

The NBA (which financially supports the WNBA, btw) makes an EXPONENTIALLY HIGHER amount of revenue than the WNBA and thus is able to pay it's athletes higher salaries. Also, WAAAAAAAAAAAAAYYYYYYYYY more people watch the NBA and buy NBA merchandize than those who do the same for the WNBA.

The MLS (the top men's soccer league in the US) doesn't pay players the same salary as the Big Four leagues (NFL, NBA, MLB, NHL) and no one bats an eye. That's because the MLS has much lower revenue and ratings than the Big Four.

Also, let's not ignore the big elephant in the room. Women (on average/in general) do NOT watch the WNBA (and women's sports at large). The overwhelming majority of WNBA TV viewers are actually men. If more women watched the WNBA then that would mean more $$$ for WNBA and thus higher salaries for the players.

Finally, the amount of women who watch sports/are avid sports fans is MUCH LOWER than the amount of men who watch sports/are avid sports fans.

All accurate, but this doesn't change the fact that it's become an emotionally-charged issue and if Biden is seen as failing/abandoning her, the whole party could wind up paying a price in turnout.

No one is going to not vote b/c of how Biden handles this

[beaver2.0]

First off, I don't think marijuana possession should be a crime so no one should be in jail for that. 

That being said, you have a responsibility to follow the law when you go to a foreign country.  If it was something like milk, for example, it would be understandable if she broke the law.  Who would expect milk to be illegal somewhere.  But hashish oil?  I'm pretty sure that's still legal in many jurisdictions even within the United States.  One would think that a traveler would at least consider that.

Nine years is, of course, a very long sentence for what she did and is unfair, but I am curious to know if it is in line with what other Americans/foreigners in similar situations get.  There's a point to be made that her sexual orientation is a factor here and that makes this case different than that of the other American man that was recently arrested for a similar crime.

It is a very unfortunate situation and I have to believe that the Russian government chose to go after this rather than cover it up as they might do in less tense times, but I don't think the potential harm that can be caused by releasing an arms dealer is outweighed here.  It's unfortunate, but that's how I see it.

[Anzeigenhauptmeister]

But hashish oil?  I'm pretty sure that's still legal in many jurisdictions even within the United States.

You mean illegal?

[7,052,770]

Does Russia even want this arms dealer?

If so, can we possibly trade him for Griner, Whalen, AND the two Americans captured fighting for Ukraine?

[GeorgiaModerate]

https://twitter.com/SpiroAgnewGhost/status/1555718435518050304

[Anzeigenhauptmeister]

Does Russia even want this arms dealer?

If so, can we possibly trade him for Griner, Whalen, AND the two Americans captured fighting for Ukraine?

https://twitter.com/CNN/status/1555469854777417728

[Fuzzy Bear]

I loathe Brittany Griner.  She's an anti-American lowlife, and I don't particularly care that she has it rough. 

Nonetheless, I believe that our government should make every effort to bring her back.  She IS an American citizen, that should count for something, and the sentence she is receiving is cruel and inhumane.  She should be aided by our government in reversing this legal injustice and bringing her home.

Perfect justice, however, would require her to have to walk to freedom through a long line of American Vietnam Veterans silently affirming that our government brought her home.  She should be reminded how many Leftist Lowlifes cursed these men when they came home for a war they neither started nor chose to fight, but served anyway because they loved their Country and would not turn their backs on their Country when their Country called them.  She needs to see their decency and virtue and feel at depth her indecency and utter lack of virtue.  And she needs to realize that their "Welcome Home!" to Brittanny Griner is GRACE and not an ENTITLEMENT.

In a world aimed at REAL reconciliation that would happen.

[Stand With Israel. Crush Hamas]

She's a famous black lesbian and a lot of people on the left are blaming the US for her plight because she gets paid so much less than an NBA star of equivalent prestige. Fair or not, this puts a lot of pressure on Biden to get her home to calm tensions with his base of support.

People who make this argument don't understand supply & demand nor do they understand revenue.

The NBA (which financially supports the WNBA, btw) makes an EXPONENTIALLY HIGHER amount of revenue than the WNBA and thus is able to pay it's athletes higher salaries. Also, WAAAAAAAAAAAAAYYYYYYYYY more people watch the NBA and buy NBA merchandize than those who do the same for the WNBA.

The MLS (the top men's soccer league in the US) doesn't pay players the same salary as the Big Four leagues (NFL, NBA, MLB, NHL) and no one bats an eye. That's because the MLS has much lower revenue and ratings than the Big Four.

Also, let's not ignore the big elephant in the room. Women (on average/in general) do NOT watch the WNBA (and women's sports at large). The overwhelming majority of WNBA TV viewers are actually men. If more women watched the WNBA then that would mean more $$$ for WNBA and thus higher salaries for the players.

Finally, the amount of women who watch sports/are avid sports fans is MUCH LOWER than the amount of men who watch sports/are avid sports fans.

All accurate, but this doesn't change the fact that it's become an emotionally-charged issue and if Biden is seen as failing/abandoning her, the whole party could wind up paying a price in turnout.

No one is going to not vote b/c of how Biden handles this

All I have is anecdata, but I can tell you that some people are very angry about this case. They keep bringing up the false equivalency of "What if it was LeBron/Brady", which doesn't get that this would just give Russia MORE leverage - either of them probably would have been sentenced to death with a ticking clock for all US aid to Ukraine to end. But that doesn't seem to matter. They view the fact that Biden isn't moving heaven and earth to bring her back as a betrayal.

[world.execute(me)]

If you oppose a prisoner swap, would you rather do one of these things?

• Leave her there for her entire sentence
• Send in a special forces team to extract her from the prison
• Bribe the prison administrator to "let her escape" and have the CIA smuggle her out of the country

Out of these three, the first one. She knew the risk and can serve as a powerful example of what happens when you decide to go to Russia in the middle of a war.

I get not thinking this exchange is worth it, but this level of active contempt for Grimer is kind of weird and vile.

[President Johnson]

An arms dealer for a basketball player is not a fair deal in my opinion. It's actually outrageous, especially also requesting Germany to release a convicted felon who murdered a political opponent in the middle of Berlin.

[Fuzzy Bear]

An arms dealer for a basketball player is not a fair deal in my opinion. It's actually outrageous, especially also requesting Germany to release a convicted felon who murdered a political opponent in the middle of Berlin.

In terms of how you frame the issue, certainly.  It's a worse deal than the one Obama negotiated for the return of Bowe Bergdahl.

Griner is a useless individual for whom I have nothing but contempt.  Even so, she is an American citizen unjustly imprisoned, and imprisoned probably because Russia knew they could leverage our collective decency and grace.  So, yes, I would advise that a deal be made and I would support such a deal.  Just as long as everyone recognizes that we would be helping someone who is a complete ingrate, I'm fine with that.  Gratitude to America should not be a prerequisite for their government to act on a citizen's behalf like this, but ingratitude ought to be recognized.

[Schiff for Senate]

If you oppose a prisoner swap, would you rather do one of these things?

• Leave her there for her entire sentence
• Send in a special forces team to extract her from the prison
• Bribe the prison administrator to "let her escape" and have the CIA smuggle her out of the country

Out of these three, the first one. She knew the risk and can serve as a powerful example of what happens when you decide to go to Russia in the middle of a war.

I get not thinking this exchange is worth it, but this level of active contempt for Grimer is kind of weird and vile.

It's not active contempt of her. It's active and great contempt of her supremely and extremely idiotic decision (and yeah, to some extent, there's some contempt in there for Grimer for causing this entire mess too - sue me). I mean, come on! Does she have rocks for brains or something? The situation between America and Russia is extremely tense right now and Russia is in the middle of a war! She went there anyway. She took that risk. And now, rather than letting an arms dealer loose to get her back, I think it's better she spends however long she's got to spend there, because that way her foolish choice can serve some purpose - in showing Americans that going to Russia is a FOOLISH choice and that if you do so, you WON'T be necessarily bailed out by the US government.

[7,052,770]

It's not active contempt of her. It's active and great contempt of her supremely and extremely idiotic decision (and yeah, to some extent, there's some contempt in there for Grimer for causing this entire mess too - sue me). I mean, come on! Does she have rocks for brains or something? The situation between America and Russia is extremely tense right now and Russia is in the middle of a war! She went there anyway. She took that risk. And now, rather than letting an arms dealer loose to get her back, I think it's better she spends however long she's got to spend there, because that way her foolish choice can serve some purpose - in showing Americans that going to Russia is a FOOLISH choice and that if you do so, you WON'T be necessarily bailed out by the US government.

She was dumb to take her vape pen with her, sure, but I'm not going to fault a WNBA player for playing for even more money during the offseason in Russia, since they all do that. Maybe the WNBA should pay better salaries than the Russian league?

It's not like she was a random tourist. She went over there for her job, and just did the normal, standard thing for a female professional basketball player.

[Schiff for Senate]

Does Russia even want this arms dealer?

If so, can we possibly trade him for Griner, Whalen, AND the two Americans captured fighting for Ukraine?

I would say wait for a while and see if more Americans go and get themselves captured. If so, maybe it is a reasonable swap to give up Bout in exchange for all of them. If this happens and Russia is willing to engage in such a trade, Griner can thank her lucky stars and come back home. If NOT - as in, if more Americans DON'T get captured, or if Russia is only willing to give up a few people for Bout - then I'm perfectly all right with keeping a dangerous arms dealer locked up, and Griner locked up in Russia too. Griner (and Griner+Whelan) is not worth Bout. I don't care if she's a celebrity or star player (which I don't think she is but I could be wrong), she's not worth a "merchant of death."

[Schiff for Senate]

It's not active contempt of her. It's active and great contempt of her supremely and extremely idiotic decision (and yeah, to some extent, there's some contempt in there for Grimer for causing this entire mess too - sue me). I mean, come on! Does she have rocks for brains or something? The situation between America and Russia is extremely tense right now and Russia is in the middle of a war! She went there anyway. She took that risk. And now, rather than letting an arms dealer loose to get her back, I think it's better she spends however long she's got to spend there, because that way her foolish choice can serve some purpose - in showing Americans that going to Russia is a FOOLISH choice and that if you do so, you WON'T be necessarily bailed out by the US government.

She was dumb to take her vape pen with her, sure, but I'm not going to fault a WNBA player for playing for even more money during the offseason in Russia, since they all do that. Maybe the WNBA should pay better salaries than the Russian league?

It's not like she was a random tourist. She went over there for her job, and just did the normal, standard thing for a female professional basketball player.

When there are historically high sanctions and a WAR is going on, things change. It's not rocket science to think you're putting yourself at risk by even going to Russia in this extremely tense situation, let alone when you (as you said) decide to take a vape pen with you too. Griner had to have known the risk. She decided to go there anyway because she wanted some extra $$$ or whatever. So she took that risk, and now she's facing (very serious and unfair, to be sure - but hardly unforeseeable) consequences for it. I don't CARE if this is what typically happens in the WNBA - when a war is going on, you might need to diverge from 'typical,' and Griner should understand that - or even if Griner is the backbone of the team. She's not worth releasing such a dangerous man.