Biden admin offers famous convicted Russian arms dealer (Viktor Bout) exchange for Griner, Whelan

[Woody]

https://edition.cnn.com/2022/07/27/politics/griner-whelan-biden-offer-viktor-bout-exchange-russia-arms-dealer/index.html

Washington (CNN)After months of internal debate, the Biden administration has offered to exchange Viktor Bout, a convicted Russian arms trafficker serving a 25-year US prison sentence, as part of a potential deal to secure the release of two Americans held by Russia, Brittney Griner and Paul Whelan, according to people briefed on the matter.

These sources told CNN that the plan to trade Bout for Whelan and Griner received the backing of President Joe Biden after being under discussion since earlier this year. Biden's support for the swap overrides opposition from the Department of Justice, which is generally against prisoner trades.

[Waldo]

I'd eat my hat if this wasn't Russia's plan from the beginning, and was the motive for arresting Griner in the first place. This is what happens when America looks weak on a global scale. Hardly surprising, since his friend and mentor taught him how to bargain for American prisoners with the Bergdhal exchange for five (FIVE!) top Taliban commanders, four of whom returned to the battlefield.

[Middle-aged Europe]

I'd eat my hat if this wasn't Russia's plan from the beginning, and was the motive for arresting Griner in the first place. This is what happens when America looks weak on a global scale. Hardly surprising, since his friend and mentor taught him how to bargain for American prisoners with the Bergdhal exchange for five (FIVE!) top Taliban commanders, four of whom returned to the battlefield.

As a close observer of the public opinion in my own country and looking as such from the outside at America I'd say the main reason why America might be construed as looking "weak" is the constant infighting, political polarization/radicalization and the ensuing gridlock. Specifically, Donald Trump is seen as a weakness because he is interpeted as dividing your country and eroding its institutions. I suppose Biden is also seen as weak because he is interpreted as being  paralyzed when it comes to effectively reigning in Trumpism.

The HIMARS systems and M777 howitzers that the U.S. has send to Ukraine are certainly not intepreted as a sign of weakness, although the usual suspects from the far left (and far right) around here tend to decry it as sign of American imperialism and brinkmanship that could lead to nuclear escalation.

[Waldo]

I'd eat my hat if this wasn't Russia's plan from the beginning, and was the motive for arresting Griner in the first place. This is what happens when America looks weak on a global scale. Hardly surprising, since his friend and mentor taught him how to bargain for American prisoners with the Bergdhal exchange for five (FIVE!) top Taliban commanders, four of whom returned to the battlefield.

As a close observer of the public opinion in my own country and looking as such from the outside at America I'd say the main reason why America might be construed as looking "weak" is the constant infighting, political polarization/radicalization and the ensuing gridlock. Specifically, Donald Trump is seen as a weakness because he is interpeted as dividing your country and eroding its institutions. I suppose Biden is also seen as weak because he is interpreted as being  paralyzed when it comes to effectively reigning in Trumpism.

The HIMARS systems and M777 howitzers that the U.S. has send to Ukraine are certainly not intepreted as a sign of weakness, although the usual suspects from the far left (and far right) around here tend to decry it as sign of American imperialism and brinkmanship that could lead to nuclear escalation.

I phrased it improperly. I should have said that this is what happens when America IS weak. Russia convinced Biden to free an international criminal in exchange for a girl who has a vape pen as if their offenses were similar in significance.

As a self-described close observer, consider broadening your perception beyond so-called Trumpism. Focusing on that makes it look like you have tunnel vision. The current administration is making plenty of mistakes all by itself.

[Anzeigenhauptmeister]

https://twitter.com/CNN/status/1555209623346597888

[Grumpier Than Uncle Joe]

No thanks.  The world is a safer place with the arms dealer under wraps.

[Torie]

Who in their right mind would visit Russia these days? Every tourist is a potential hostage.

[Horus]

Who in their right mind would visit Russia these days? Every tourist is a potential hostage.

She claims she was playing there to make extra money as the WNBA does not pay particularly well.

[7,052,770]

Who in their right mind would visit Russia these days? Every tourist is a potential hostage.

She claims she was playing there to make extra money as the WNBA does not pay particularly well.

Yes, most WNBA players do this in the offseason.

[Grumpier Than Uncle Joe]

Who in their right mind would visit Russia these days? Every tourist is a potential hostage.

She claims she was playing there to make extra money as the WNBA does not pay particularly well.

Yes, most WNBA players do this in the offseason.

Right.  Because of that, they had to know how the Russians are about this stuff.

[SWE]

I'd eat my hat if this wasn't Russia's plan from the beginning, and was the motive for arresting Griner in the first place. This is what happens when America looks weak on a global scale. Hardly surprising, since his friend and mentor taught him how to bargain for American prisoners with the Bergdhal exchange for five (FIVE!) top Taliban commanders, four of whom returned to the battlefield.

As a close observer of the public opinion in my own country and looking as such from the outside at America I'd say the main reason why America might be construed as looking "weak" is the constant infighting, political polarization/radicalization and the ensuing gridlock. Specifically, Donald Trump is seen as a weakness because he is interpeted as dividing your country and eroding its institutions. I suppose Biden is also seen as weak because he is interpreted as being  paralyzed when it comes to effectively reigning in Trumpism.

The HIMARS systems and M777 howitzers that the U.S. has send to Ukraine are certainly not intepreted as a sign of weakness, although the usual suspects from the far left (and far right) around here tend to decry it as sign of American imperialism and brinkmanship that could lead to nuclear escalation.

I phrased it improperly. I should have said that this is what happens when America IS weak. Russia convinced Biden to free an international criminal in exchange for a girl who has a vape pen as if their offenses were similar in significance.

As a self-described close observer, consider broadening your perception beyond so-called Trumpism. Focusing on that makes it look like you have tunnel vision. The current administration is making plenty of mistakes all by itself.

The fact that their offenses aren't comparable is why this deal had to be made. Biden made an unfortunate concession to prevent an extremely gross human rights violation. It sucks that the call had to be made, but it's a pretty easy call

[Grumpier Than Uncle Joe]

I'd eat my hat if this wasn't Russia's plan from the beginning, and was the motive for arresting Griner in the first place. This is what happens when America looks weak on a global scale. Hardly surprising, since his friend and mentor taught him how to bargain for American prisoners with the Bergdhal exchange for five (FIVE!) top Taliban commanders, four of whom returned to the battlefield.

As a close observer of the public opinion in my own country and looking as such from the outside at America I'd say the main reason why America might be construed as looking "weak" is the constant infighting, political polarization/radicalization and the ensuing gridlock. Specifically, Donald Trump is seen as a weakness because he is interpeted as dividing your country and eroding its institutions. I suppose Biden is also seen as weak because he is interpreted as being  paralyzed when it comes to effectively reigning in Trumpism.

The HIMARS systems and M777 howitzers that the U.S. has send to Ukraine are certainly not intepreted as a sign of weakness, although the usual suspects from the far left (and far right) around here tend to decry it as sign of American imperialism and brinkmanship that could lead to nuclear escalation.

I phrased it improperly. I should have said that this is what happens when America IS weak. Russia convinced Biden to free an international criminal in exchange for a girl who has a vape pen as if their offenses were similar in significance.

As a self-described close observer, consider broadening your perception beyond so-called Trumpism. Focusing on that makes it look like you have tunnel vision. The current administration is making plenty of mistakes all by itself.

The fact that their offenses aren't comparable is why this deal had to be made. Biden made an unfortunate concession to prevent an extremely gross human rights violation. It sucks that the call had to be made, but it's a pretty easy call

Easy call?  Neh.  It's an easy call not to hand over an arms dealer who literally will kill people.

[Chancellor Tanterterg]

This is a really stupid trade that will make the world more dangerous for Americans

[Schiff for Senate]

Make them an example of what happens when you decide to go to Russia despite all the danger. Not only that, you'll keep a very dangerous person (literally called "merchant of death", so...) behind bars rather than letting them walk free and create more danger.

This is BAD because it allows idiots to think that even if they DO go to Russia and get captured, it's okay because the American government will swoop in to rescue them, no matter the cost, and much more importantly, it lets loose a VERY DANGEROUS PERSON.

NOT WORTH IT!

[Ferguson97]

Getting Griner released is better optics than having her locked up. Let the world see that America will fight for its people.

[certified hummus supporter 🇵🇸🤝🇺🇸🤝🇺🇦]

Getting Griner released is better optics than having her locked up. Let the world see that America will fight for its people.

Sure, but is a damn arms dealer worth the cost to free her? I don't think so.

[Ferguson97]

Getting Griner released is better optics than having her locked up. Let the world see that America will fight for its people.

Sure, but is a damn arms dealer worth the cost to free her? I don't think so.

I know that, objectively, an arms dealer is more valuable, but it feels morally wrong to let her rot in a Russian prison. Freeing her and bringing her home is the right thing to do.

[Schiff for Senate]

Getting Griner released is better optics than having her locked up. Let the world see that America will fight for its people.

Sure, but is a damn arms dealer worth the cost to free her? I don't think so.

Agreed. It's not about "optics". It should be about safety. We're releasing a very dangerous arms dealer - again, he's literally called the ''manufacturer of death." Releasing him is honestly NOT worth the reward. And the added benefit of throwing Griner and Whelan to the mercy of the Russians is to send a very clear message to the American people: Go to Russia at your own risk. America will not bail you out if you make a foolish decision and face the wrath of the Russians.

[Schiff for Senate]

Getting Griner released is better optics than having her locked up. Let the world see that America will fight for its people.

Sure, but is a damn arms dealer worth the cost to free her? I don't think so.

I know that, objectively, an arms dealer is more valuable, but it feels morally wrong to let her rot in a Russian prison. Freeing her and bringing her home is the right thing to do.

Send a message to American people: America will not bail you out if you go to Russia and face Russian wrath. If you go to Russia, you do so at your own risk.
 
Griner knew the risk. She went anyway. Why should we make a decision that will let a dangerous person loose and very possibly endanger Americans in the future to bail her out now? It will just make dumb Americans considering going to Russia feel safer. OTOH, letting her rot in jail or whatever, not only allows us to keep a VERY DANGEROUS PERSON behind bars, but also really disincentivizes Americans from daring to go to Russia.

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

I don't understand why Russia wants Bout freed anyway. It's not like he was working on behalf of Russia, he was engaging in illegal arms dealing for profit which is illegal in Russia too. It'd be like if Canada arrested some American meth kingpin and the US demanded his release.

[Anzeigenhauptmeister]

The last words Brittney will hear from the outerworld:

[○∙◄☻¥tπ[╪AV┼cVê└]

FARC didn't quite go full Sinn Fein, but they mostly stopped fighting.

[Schiff for Senate]

AT THE VERY LEAST if they're going to release a dangerous arms dealer anyway, they should wait until more American morons fly to Russia and get themselves arrested so they can get more out of his release. Because I'm sure this won't be the last incident of Americans deciding to go to Russia, facing the consequences, and the government being forced to figure out a way to get them out.

[Anzeigenhauptmeister]

https://twitter.com/CNN/status/1555469854777417728

[7,052,770]

If you oppose a prisoner swap, would you rather do one of these things?

• Leave her there for her entire sentence
• Send in a special forces team to extract her from the prison
• Bribe the prison administrator to "let her escape" and have the CIA smuggle her out of the country