Turns out some unions in St. Paul are f[inks]ing vile

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

https://twitter.com/StarTribune/status/1546650546341154817

In lawsuits filed late last year, the St. Paul Police Federation, Firefighters Local 21 and St. Paul's Tri-Council said the city violated state labor laws and collective bargaining agreements by failing to negotiate the terms of the policy with unions.

I support unions other than police ones (which need to be outright banned) but not the non-police ones here. This is just vile like those disgusting healthcare worker ones in New York who thankfully got swatted down while trying to defend the anti-vaxxer trash infesting the New York healthcare system.

Hopefully the state Supreme Court overrules this and then St. Paul can CLEANSE ITSELF OF FILTH.

[If my soul was made of stone]

On the Waterfront (1954)

[lakeview]

"I like unions, unless they're police unions or they challenge a requirement to take a two-years-out-of-date flu shot to keep your job. Those unions need to be extirpated."

Democrats in 2022, everybody!

[Lief 🗽]

I don’t really know how anyone can look at the disgusting policies public sector unions have forced on the public over the last two or three years and still support their existence. Whether it’s protecting child murdering cops, defending antivax nut jobs, keeping the schools closed, or actively making public transit worse and more expensive, it’s clear that their impact on the public they supposedly serve is overwhelmingly negative.

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

"I like unions, unless they're police unions or they challenge a requirement to take a two-years-out-of-date flu shot to keep your job. Those unions need to be extirpated."

Democrats in 2022, everybody!

It's not a flu shot. Covid has nothing to do with the flu, completely different types of viruses.

[Del Tachi]

"Unions are only good when cos-playing as anti-capitalists, not when advocating for the interests of their members that I happen to disagree with!"

[President Punxsutawney Phil]

As someone who firmly believes in the right to organize, I think it's dangerous to point to some particular professions of which their members do things you object to and claim that is a reason they have no right to have a union. That's a road to a very dark place.
A union's number one job is acting on behalf of the interests of its members. This means that there are occasions in which they can and should be ignored, but they still have a voice, an important one, and taking that voice away is vindicative beyond all reason.

[lakeview]

"I like unions, unless they're police unions or they challenge a requirement to take a two-years-out-of-date flu shot to keep your job. Those unions need to be extirpated."

Democrats in 2022, everybody!

It's not a flu shot. Covid has nothing to do with the flu, completely different types of viruses.

Wasn't my point.

But thanks for telling me that Covid isn't the flu. I've never heard that before. /s

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

"I like unions, unless they're police unions or they challenge a requirement to take a two-years-out-of-date flu shot to keep your job. Those unions need to be extirpated."

Democrats in 2022, everybody!

It's not a flu shot. Covid has nothing to do with the flu, completely different types of viruses.

Wasn't my point.

But thanks for telling me that Covid isn't the flu. I've never heard that before. /s

You're the one who referred to it as the flu so if you knew that you're intentionally spreading misinformation.

[TheDeadFlagBlues]

Unions protect workers against intrusive employer coercion, which is exactly what they are supposed to be doing.

[lakeview]

"I like unions, unless they're police unions or they challenge a requirement to take a two-years-out-of-date flu shot to keep your job. Those unions need to be extirpated."

Democrats in 2022, everybody!

It's not a flu shot. Covid has nothing to do with the flu, completely different types of viruses.

Wasn't my point.

But thanks for telling me that Covid isn't the flu. I've never heard that before. /s

You're the one who referred to it as the flu so if you knew that you're intentionally spreading misinformation.

No, I referred to the Covid shot as a "two-years-out-of-date flu shot." Which, for all intents and purposes, it is. At least five people understood my metaphor, since that's how many people have recommended my post.

If there's no reason to mandate a two-years-out-of-date flu shot, there's no reason to mandate the Covid shots, because the effect on overall health of the population is the same: practically nothing. I'm not going to argue with you on this. Mandating a shot for a form of a virus that isn't circulating anymore is lunacy. At some point, we need to start agreeing that the sky is blue.

[TheDeadFlagBlues]

"I like unions, unless they're police unions or they challenge a requirement to take a two-years-out-of-date flu shot to keep your job. Those unions need to be extirpated."

Democrats in 2022, everybody!

It's not a flu shot. Covid has nothing to do with the flu, completely different types of viruses.

This isn't relevant. The question is whether or not we should accept employers having control over intimate healthcare decisions. I wouldn't want employers trying to mandate smoking cessation or other intrusive controls. I wouldn't want them to mandate treatments against depression either. COVID-19 is a virus so there's a negative externality if someone isn't vaccinated - someone's choice to not get vaccinated affects others. At the same time, in practice, the risk to others is pretty negligible so long as they are vaccinated so I'm not sure why we need these draconian measures.

There are other ways of encouraging vaccination, such as continuing to make vaccinations free, continued PR campaigns, and possible financial incentives, that don't involve putting a gun to the head of workers. I can see the merits of making police or firefighters getting vaccinated - they aren't any old workers - but, also, the possibility of even 1% of them deciding to quit is very, very costly.

[Okay, maybe Mike Johnson is a competent parliamentarian.]

Employers--including the state in its capacity as an employer--are not the proper entity to be imposing public health requirements, nor is the employment relationship the proper level of social control at which to impose them.

[TheDeadFlagBlues]

Employers--including the state in its capacity as an employer--are not the proper entity to be imposing public health requirements, nor is the employment relationship the proper level of social control at which to impose them.

Democrats generating lots of reasons for Republicans to vote. Imagine that you're some anti-vaxx firefighter in a blue state and you rarely vote. I think you'd be voting in every election from now on, even if you end up getting vaccinated, purely out of spite?

What is the point of this? We increase vaccination rates by 0.3 or 0.5% among healthy adults and make 10% of them really, really, really angry and believe in even more absurd conspiracy theories?

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

"I like unions, unless they're police unions or they challenge a requirement to take a two-years-out-of-date flu shot to keep your job. Those unions need to be extirpated."

Democrats in 2022, everybody!

It's not a flu shot. Covid has nothing to do with the flu, completely different types of viruses.

This isn't relevant. The question is whether or not we should accept employers having control over intimate healthcare decisions. I wouldn't want employers trying to mandate smoking cessation or other intrusive controls. I wouldn't want them to mandate treatments against depression either. COVID-19 is a virus so there's a negative externality if someone isn't vaccinated - someone's choice to not get vaccinated affects others. At the same time, in practice, the risk to others is pretty negligible so long as they are vaccinated so I'm not sure why we need these draconian measures.

There are other ways of encouraging vaccination, such as continuing to make vaccinations free, continued PR campaigns, and possible financial incentives, that don't involve putting a gun to the head of workers. I can see the merits of making police or firefighters getting vaccinated - they aren't any old workers - but, also, the possibility of even 1% of them deciding to quit is very, very costly.

Honestly it mostly comes down to that anti-vaxxers are all complete morons who think Joe Rogan, Alex Jones or stupid Boomer Facebook memes are valid sources of medical information and we're better off without them in public positions.

[TheDeadFlagBlues]

"I like unions, unless they're police unions or they challenge a requirement to take a two-years-out-of-date flu shot to keep your job. Those unions need to be extirpated."

Democrats in 2022, everybody!

It's not a flu shot. Covid has nothing to do with the flu, completely different types of viruses.

This isn't relevant. The question is whether or not we should accept employers having control over intimate healthcare decisions. I wouldn't want employers trying to mandate smoking cessation or other intrusive controls. I wouldn't want them to mandate treatments against depression either. COVID-19 is a virus so there's a negative externality if someone isn't vaccinated - someone's choice to not get vaccinated affects others. At the same time, in practice, the risk to others is pretty negligible so long as they are vaccinated so I'm not sure why we need these draconian measures.

There are other ways of encouraging vaccination, such as continuing to make vaccinations free, continued PR campaigns, and possible financial incentives, that don't involve putting a gun to the head of workers. I can see the merits of making police or firefighters getting vaccinated - they aren't any old workers - but, also, the possibility of even 1% of them deciding to quit is very, very costly.

Honestly it mostly comes down to that anti-vaxxers are all complete morons who think Joe Rogan, Alex Jones or stupid Boomer Facebook memes are valid sources of medical information and we're better off without them in public positions.

It isn't a job requirement for a police officer or a firefighter to be good at anything but their job, which as far as I can tell doesn't relate to knowing facts about vaccines. In fact, I doubt there's any correlation between being a good firefighter and knowing facts about vaccines or viruses?

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

I was going to muse if Derek Chauvin is vaccinated but then remembered the vaccine wasn't out yet when he committed his murder....but he totally strikes me as someone who wouldn't be.

[lakeview]

"I like unions, unless they're police unions or they challenge a requirement to take a two-years-out-of-date flu shot to keep your job. Those unions need to be extirpated."

Democrats in 2022, everybody!

It's not a flu shot. Covid has nothing to do with the flu, completely different types of viruses.

This isn't relevant. The question is whether or not we should accept employers having control over intimate healthcare decisions. I wouldn't want employers trying to mandate smoking cessation or other intrusive controls. I wouldn't want them to mandate treatments against depression either. COVID-19 is a virus so there's a negative externality if someone isn't vaccinated - someone's choice to not get vaccinated affects others. At the same time, in practice, the risk to others is pretty negligible so long as they are vaccinated so I'm not sure why we need these draconian measures.

There are other ways of encouraging vaccination, such as continuing to make vaccinations free, continued PR campaigns, and possible financial incentives, that don't involve putting a gun to the head of workers. I can see the merits of making police or firefighters getting vaccinated - they aren't any old workers - but, also, the possibility of even 1% of them deciding to quit is very, very costly.

Honestly it mostly comes down to that anti-vaxxers are all complete morons who think Joe Rogan, Alex Jones or stupid Boomer Facebook memes are valid sources of medical information and we're better off without them in public positions.

Great, thank you for confirming our prior that, for people like you, "public health" isn't much more than a pretext for rooting people out of public-sector jobs if you don't like their beliefs.

If we take that now-strengthened prior and apply it to the topic of this thread, then we see that this union's actions amount to protecting their members from a witch hunt.

Thank you again for providing clarity!

[PSOL]

Vaccine mandates are an excuse for firing off workers.

[Schiff for Senate]

"I like unions, unless they're police unions or they challenge a requirement to take a two-years-out-of-date flu shot to keep your job. Those unions need to be extirpated."

Democrats in 2022, everybody!

It's not a flu shot. Covid has nothing to do with the flu, completely different types of viruses.

This isn't relevant. The question is whether or not we should accept employers having control over intimate healthcare decisions. I wouldn't want employers trying to mandate smoking cessation or other intrusive controls. I wouldn't want them to mandate treatments against depression either. COVID-19 is a virus so there's a negative externality if someone isn't vaccinated - someone's choice to not get vaccinated affects others. At the same time, in practice, the risk to others is pretty negligible so long as they are vaccinated so I'm not sure why we need these draconian measures.

There are other ways of encouraging vaccination, such as continuing to make vaccinations free, continued PR campaigns, and possible financial incentives, that don't involve putting a gun to the head of workers. I can see the merits of making police or firefighters getting vaccinated - they aren't any old workers - but, also, the possibility of even 1% of them deciding to quit is very, very costly.

Those cost a good amount of money that really could be put to better use. Those campaigns really need to end now - those who were going to ever get voluntarily vaccinated have gotten the shot, and anybody who hasn’t gotten it in the past year plus probably won’t be getting it. The PR campaigns have gone on for too long actually and wasted too much money. Everybody knows the shot is available and has been told enough times that they should get it. At this point, either force them to get it (vaccination mandates - not that I’m saying I necessarily support them) or accept that 99% of those currently unvaccinated will remain so, and that prolonged PR campaigns won’t convince them if they haven’t been able to do so for over a year. I can think of more than enough other things the money these PR campaigns are wasting should be spent on instead.

Vaccine mandates are an excuse for firing off workers.

If your job means anything at all to you then you should get a shot that only ensures the safety of you and those around you. Not wanting to be safe and ensure a safe workplace really seems like a strange hill for employees/unions to want to die on.

[Schiff for Senate]

"I like unions, unless they're police unions or they challenge a requirement to take a two-years-out-of-date flu shot to keep your job. Those unions need to be extirpated."

Democrats in 2022, everybody!

It's not a flu shot. Covid has nothing to do with the flu, completely different types of viruses.

This isn't relevant. The question is whether or not we should accept employers having control over intimate healthcare decisions. I wouldn't want employers trying to mandate smoking cessation or other intrusive controls. I wouldn't want them to mandate treatments against depression either. COVID-19 is a virus so there's a negative externality if someone isn't vaccinated - someone's choice to not get vaccinated affects others. At the same time, in practice, the risk to others is pretty negligible so long as they are vaccinated so I'm not sure why we need these draconian measures.

There are other ways of encouraging vaccination, such as continuing to make vaccinations free, continued PR campaigns, and possible financial incentives, that don't involve putting a gun to the head of workers. I can see the merits of making police or firefighters getting vaccinated - they aren't any old workers - but, also, the possibility of even 1% of them deciding to quit is very, very costly.

Honestly it mostly comes down to that anti-vaxxers are all complete morons who think Joe Rogan, Alex Jones or stupid Boomer Facebook memes are valid sources of medical information and we're better off without them in public positions.

Great, thank you for confirming our prior that, for people like you, "public health" isn't much more than a pretext for rooting people out of public-sector jobs if you don't like their beliefs.

If we take that now-strengthened prior and apply it to the topic of this thread, then we see that this union's actions amount to protecting their members from a witch hunt.

Thank you again for providing clarity!

Being against a safe, effective and important vaccine is not a belief - it’s a mental illness.

[lakeview]

"I like unions, unless they're police unions or they challenge a requirement to take a two-years-out-of-date flu shot to keep your job. Those unions need to be extirpated."

Democrats in 2022, everybody!

It's not a flu shot. Covid has nothing to do with the flu, completely different types of viruses.

This isn't relevant. The question is whether or not we should accept employers having control over intimate healthcare decisions. I wouldn't want employers trying to mandate smoking cessation or other intrusive controls. I wouldn't want them to mandate treatments against depression either. COVID-19 is a virus so there's a negative externality if someone isn't vaccinated - someone's choice to not get vaccinated affects others. At the same time, in practice, the risk to others is pretty negligible so long as they are vaccinated so I'm not sure why we need these draconian measures.

There are other ways of encouraging vaccination, such as continuing to make vaccinations free, continued PR campaigns, and possible financial incentives, that don't involve putting a gun to the head of workers. I can see the merits of making police or firefighters getting vaccinated - they aren't any old workers - but, also, the possibility of even 1% of them deciding to quit is very, very costly.

Honestly it mostly comes down to that anti-vaxxers are all complete morons who think Joe Rogan, Alex Jones or stupid Boomer Facebook memes are valid sources of medical information and we're better off without them in public positions.

Great, thank you for confirming our prior that, for people like you, "public health" isn't much more than a pretext for rooting people out of public-sector jobs if you don't like their beliefs.

If we take that now-strengthened prior and apply it to the topic of this thread, then we see that this union's actions amount to protecting their members from a witch hunt.

Thank you again for providing clarity!

Being against a safe, effective and important vaccine is not a belief - it’s a mental illness.

I'm definitely sane and I can't mentally place myself in a reality where getting a vaccine for a viral variant that isn't even circulating anymore is "important."

Make it make sense. Or consider questioning your premises.

[Schiff for Senate]

"I like unions, unless they're police unions or they challenge a requirement to take a two-years-out-of-date flu shot to keep your job. Those unions need to be extirpated."

Democrats in 2022, everybody!

It's not a flu shot. Covid has nothing to do with the flu, completely different types of viruses.

This isn't relevant. The question is whether or not we should accept employers having control over intimate healthcare decisions. I wouldn't want employers trying to mandate smoking cessation or other intrusive controls. I wouldn't want them to mandate treatments against depression either. COVID-19 is a virus so there's a negative externality if someone isn't vaccinated - someone's choice to not get vaccinated affects others. At the same time, in practice, the risk to others is pretty negligible so long as they are vaccinated so I'm not sure why we need these draconian measures.

There are other ways of encouraging vaccination, such as continuing to make vaccinations free, continued PR campaigns, and possible financial incentives, that don't involve putting a gun to the head of workers. I can see the merits of making police or firefighters getting vaccinated - they aren't any old workers - but, also, the possibility of even 1% of them deciding to quit is very, very costly.

Honestly it mostly comes down to that anti-vaxxers are all complete morons who think Joe Rogan, Alex Jones or stupid Boomer Facebook memes are valid sources of medical information and we're better off without them in public positions.

Great, thank you for confirming our prior that, for people like you, "public health" isn't much more than a pretext for rooting people out of public-sector jobs if you don't like their beliefs.

If we take that now-strengthened prior and apply it to the topic of this thread, then we see that this union's actions amount to protecting their members from a witch hunt.

Thank you again for providing clarity!

Being against a safe, effective and important vaccine is not a belief - it’s a mental illness.

I'm definitely sane

With all due respect, we have only your word for that.

(To address the rest of your post though, the viral variant is, in fact, circulating.)

[lakeview]

"I like unions, unless they're police unions or they challenge a requirement to take a two-years-out-of-date flu shot to keep your job. Those unions need to be extirpated."

Democrats in 2022, everybody!

It's not a flu shot. Covid has nothing to do with the flu, completely different types of viruses.

This isn't relevant. The question is whether or not we should accept employers having control over intimate healthcare decisions. I wouldn't want employers trying to mandate smoking cessation or other intrusive controls. I wouldn't want them to mandate treatments against depression either. COVID-19 is a virus so there's a negative externality if someone isn't vaccinated - someone's choice to not get vaccinated affects others. At the same time, in practice, the risk to others is pretty negligible so long as they are vaccinated so I'm not sure why we need these draconian measures.

There are other ways of encouraging vaccination, such as continuing to make vaccinations free, continued PR campaigns, and possible financial incentives, that don't involve putting a gun to the head of workers. I can see the merits of making police or firefighters getting vaccinated - they aren't any old workers - but, also, the possibility of even 1% of them deciding to quit is very, very costly.

Honestly it mostly comes down to that anti-vaxxers are all complete morons who think Joe Rogan, Alex Jones or stupid Boomer Facebook memes are valid sources of medical information and we're better off without them in public positions.

Great, thank you for confirming our prior that, for people like you, "public health" isn't much more than a pretext for rooting people out of public-sector jobs if you don't like their beliefs.

If we take that now-strengthened prior and apply it to the topic of this thread, then we see that this union's actions amount to protecting their members from a witch hunt.

Thank you again for providing clarity!

Being against a safe, effective and important vaccine is not a belief - it’s a mental illness.

I'm definitely sane

With all due respect, we have only your word for that.

(To address the rest of your post though, the viral variant is, in fact, circulating.)

The variant that the vaccine was designed for is circulating in approximately what proportion, compared to the newer variants?

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

He vaccine while not designed for the current variant does provide some protection. If it didn't we'd see hospitals filling up and infection surging. That's not happening because even if people vaccinated catch it because the antibodies aren't effective, the T-cells are and it's basically just a cold. So this it's not a big threat to the healthcare system. But that's only true because so many people are vaccinated.