61% of Republicans now call Jan. 6 a “legitimate protest”

[Ferguson97]

https://twitter.com/AaronBlake/status/1545160678507511809

[TPIG]

And to think, at one point, more than 60% of them thought it wasn't legitimate. There was that little glimmer of hope in the days after Jan 6 when essentially everyone but the most hardened-Trumpists reacted in horror and saw it for what it was. Then the right-wing media apparatus got to work...

[Del Tachi]

It certainly was just as legitimate as CHAZ or Portland, which left-wing politicians and DAs (including folks in the Biden DOJ!) have been happy to sweep under the rug.   

[Alben Barkley]

It certainly was just as legitimate as CHAZ or Portland, which left-wing politicians and DAs (including folks in the Biden DOJ!) have been happy to sweep under the rug.   

I know you're not too stupid to not know the difference between nonsense like CHAZ and an attempt to coup the government via insurrection, so why are you pretending to be?

[Del Tachi]

It certainly was just as legitimate as CHAZ or Portland, which left-wing politicians and DAs (including folks in the Biden DOJ!) have been happy to sweep under the rug.   

I know you're not too stupid to not know the difference between nonsense like CHAZ and an attempt to coup the government via insurrection, so why are you pretending to be?

You're too blind with partisan motivations to see these two instances of the usurpation of civil authority as equivalent. 

[GeorgiaModerate]

It certainly was just as legitimate as CHAZ or Portland, which left-wing politicians and DAs (including folks in the Biden DOJ!) have been happy to sweep under the rug.   

I know you're not too stupid to not know the difference between nonsense like CHAZ and an attempt to coup the government via insurrection, so why are you pretending to be?

You're too blind with partisan motivations to see these two instances of the usurpation of civil authority as equivalent. 

You treat them as equivalent and you say that *he's* blind with partisan motivations?  Pot, meet kettle.

[Ferguson97]

It certainly was just as legitimate as CHAZ or Portland, which left-wing politicians and DAs (including folks in the Biden DOJ!) have been happy to sweep under the rug.   

I know you're not too stupid to not know the difference between nonsense like CHAZ and an attempt to coup the government via insurrection, so why are you pretending to be?

You're too blind with partisan motivations to see these two instances of the usurpation of civil authority as equivalent. 

Even if you think that these two instances are equivalent in kind, you cannot seriously believe that they are equivalent in degree.

[Del Tachi]

It certainly was just as legitimate as CHAZ or Portland, which left-wing politicians and DAs (including folks in the Biden DOJ!) have been happy to sweep under the rug.   

I know you're not too stupid to not know the difference between nonsense like CHAZ and an attempt to coup the government via insurrection, so why are you pretending to be?

You're too blind with partisan motivations to see these two instances of the usurpation of civil authority as equivalent. 

Even if you think that these two instances are equivalent in kind, you cannot seriously believe that they are equivalent in degree.

Why not?  They both seem to have accomplished the same thing:  nothing.  And unlike CHAZ/Portland, no one was even murdered on 1/6 (unless you count Ashli Babbit)

[Fmr. Pres. Duke]

I encourage anyone who has doubts about whether January 6 was a protest or an insurrection to watch "Four Hours at the Capitol" on HBO Max. You will see, live on camera, that it was nothing but a violent riot with the intent to take overthrow the will of the people.

Of course, the 61% who believe it was a protest don't want to educate themselves on anything.

[Del Tachi]

It certainly was just as legitimate as CHAZ or Portland, which left-wing politicians and DAs (including folks in the Biden DOJ!) have been happy to sweep under the rug.   

I know you're not too stupid to not know the difference between nonsense like CHAZ and an attempt to coup the government via insurrection, so why are you pretending to be?

You're too blind with partisan motivations to see these two instances of the usurpation of civil authority as equivalent. 

You treat them as equivalent and you say that *he's* blind with partisan motivations?  Pot, meet kettle.

This is just a shouting match.  I say they're equivalent; you say they aren't.  Both of our interpretations of what happened are obviously colored by the subjectivities of our politics.  How could they not be? 

[Absentee Voting Ghost of Ruin]

https://twitter.com/AaronBlake/status/1545160678507511809

If Republicans want to preemptively say it's okay for a Democratic crowd in January 2025 to hang GOP leadership while VP Harris re-appoints Biden as President for another term, they're free to do that, but they're still wrong.

[TPIG]

It certainly was just as legitimate as CHAZ or Portland, which left-wing politicians and DAs (including folks in the Biden DOJ!) have been happy to sweep under the rug.   

I know you're not too stupid to not know the difference between nonsense like CHAZ and an attempt to coup the government via insurrection, so why are you pretending to be?

You're too blind with partisan motivations to see these two instances of the usurpation of civil authority as equivalent. 

Even if you think that these two instances are equivalent in kind, you cannot seriously believe that they are equivalent in degree.

Why not?  They both seem to have accomplished the same thing:  nothing.  And unlike CHAZ/Portland, no one was even murdered on 1/6 (unless you count Ashli Babbit)

Dude, one was a bunch of dumb anarchist LARPERs trying to live out a utopian fantasy that failed spectacularly and was rightfully disbanded by police. The other was an attempt to sever the continuous, peaceful transfer of power that we've had in this country since our founding and to keep a losing president installed as leader. How on earth can you view them as being of the same degree?

[Sir Mohamed]

People tend to have goldfish memories and already forgot how horrible it was, just like some in general tend to forget what a total disaster Trump's presidency was. Now they just remember that a bunch of funny dressed weirdos protested against certification of an election whose results they never accepted.

[The Dowager Mod]

61% of Republicans are idiots, but we knew that already.

[Del Tachi]

It certainly was just as legitimate as CHAZ or Portland, which left-wing politicians and DAs (including folks in the Biden DOJ!) have been happy to sweep under the rug.   

I know you're not too stupid to not know the difference between nonsense like CHAZ and an attempt to coup the government via insurrection, so why are you pretending to be?

You're too blind with partisan motivations to see these two instances of the usurpation of civil authority as equivalent. 

Even if you think that these two instances are equivalent in kind, you cannot seriously believe that they are equivalent in degree.

Why not?  They both seem to have accomplished the same thing:  nothing.  And unlike CHAZ/Portland, no one was even murdered on 1/6 (unless you count Ashli Babbit)

Dude, one was a bunch of dumb anarchist LARPERs trying to live out a utopian fantasy that failed spectacularly and was rightfully disbanded by police. The other was an attempt to sever the continuous, peaceful transfer of power that we've had in this country since our founding and to keep a losing president installed as leader. How on earth can you view them as being of the same degree?

I find it very hard to look at the crowds on January 6th and conclude that they were anything other than LARPers trying to live-out some kind of political fantasy, too.  I was actually disappointed that the Trump protesters could be just as lame as the BLM'ers, to be honest.

As I already said, the actual effect of both these riots (i.e., CHAZ and 1/6) is near-zero in retrospect.  The only difference is that one is being played-up for political gain by Democrats in Congress.   

[Absentee Voting Ghost of Ruin]

It certainly was just as legitimate as CHAZ or Portland, which left-wing politicians and DAs (including folks in the Biden DOJ!) have been happy to sweep under the rug.   

I know you're not too stupid to not know the difference between nonsense like CHAZ and an attempt to coup the government via insurrection, so why are you pretending to be?

You're too blind with partisan motivations to see these two instances of the usurpation of civil authority as equivalent. 

You treat them as equivalent and you say that *he's* blind with partisan motivations?  Pot, meet kettle.

This is just a shouting match.  I say they're equivalent; you say they aren't.  Both of our interpretations of what happened are obviously colored by the subjectivities of our politics.  How could they not be? 

We're all well aware that false equivalence is a key part of Trumpism. You really don't need to keep reminding everyone. 

[TPIG]

It certainly was just as legitimate as CHAZ or Portland, which left-wing politicians and DAs (including folks in the Biden DOJ!) have been happy to sweep under the rug.  

I know you're not too stupid to not know the difference between nonsense like CHAZ and an attempt to coup the government via insurrection, so why are you pretending to be?

You're too blind with partisan motivations to see these two instances of the usurpation of civil authority as equivalent.  

Even if you think that these two instances are equivalent in kind, you cannot seriously believe that they are equivalent in degree.

Why not?  They both seem to have accomplished the same thing:  nothing.  And unlike CHAZ/Portland, no one was even murdered on 1/6 (unless you count Ashli Babbit)

Dude, one was a bunch of dumb anarchist LARPERs trying to live out a utopian fantasy that failed spectacularly and was rightfully disbanded by police. The other was an attempt to sever the continuous, peaceful transfer of power that we've had in this country since our founding and to keep a losing president installed as leader. How on earth can you view them as being of the same degree?

I find it very hard to look at the crowds on January 6th and conclude that they were anything other than LARPers trying to live-out some kind of political fantasy, too.  I was actually disappointed that the Trump protesters could be just as lame as the BLM'ers, to be honest.

As I already said, the actual effect of both these riots (i.e., CHAZ and 1/6) is near-zero in retrospect.  The only difference is that one is being played-up for political gain by Democrats in Congress.  

So to be clear, your complaint is that they weren't successful in keeping Trump in power, despite losing an election? Do you wish they would have hung Mike Pence too?

Also, to say this has a near-zero impact because almost no one died is surreally deluded. The opened pandora's box of election-loss denialism and the threat of violence anytime one side loses has now entered into the mainstream. A democratic society cannot survive when one side only accepts the outcome of elections when they win.

[Inmate Trump]

It certainly was just as legitimate as CHAZ or Portland, which left-wing politicians and DAs (including folks in the Biden DOJ!) have been happy to sweep under the rug.   

I know you're not too stupid to not know the difference between nonsense like CHAZ and an attempt to coup the government via insurrection, so why are you pretending to be?

You're too blind with partisan motivations to see these two instances of the usurpation of civil authority as equivalent. 

Even if you think that these two instances are equivalent in kind, you cannot seriously believe that they are equivalent in degree.

Why not?  They both seem to have accomplished the same thing:  nothing.  And unlike CHAZ/Portland, no one was even murdered on 1/6 (unless you count Ashli Babbit)

Dude, one was a bunch of dumb anarchist LARPERs trying to live out a utopian fantasy that failed spectacularly and was rightfully disbanded by police. The other was an attempt to sever the continuous, peaceful transfer of power that we've had in this country since our founding and to keep a losing president installed as leader. How on earth can you view them as being of the same degree?

I find it very hard to look at the crowds on January 6th and conclude that they were anything other than LARPers trying to live-out some kind of political fantasy, too.  I was actually disappointed that the Trump protesters could be just as lame as the BLM'ers, to be honest.

As I already said, the actual effect of both these riots (i.e., CHAZ and 1/6) is near-zero in retrospect.  The only difference is that one is being played-up for political gain by Democrats in Congress.   

If the Jan 6 people got everything they wanted, would it have then been considered a coup?

What they were capable of is irrelevant. What was their intent?

So please answer: If they got everything they wanted, and Trump remained in power, what would you have considered the event?

[Del Tachi]

It certainly was just as legitimate as CHAZ or Portland, which left-wing politicians and DAs (including folks in the Biden DOJ!) have been happy to sweep under the rug.   

I know you're not too stupid to not know the difference between nonsense like CHAZ and an attempt to coup the government via insurrection, so why are you pretending to be?

You're too blind with partisan motivations to see these two instances of the usurpation of civil authority as equivalent. 

Even if you think that these two instances are equivalent in kind, you cannot seriously believe that they are equivalent in degree.

Why not?  They both seem to have accomplished the same thing:  nothing.  And unlike CHAZ/Portland, no one was even murdered on 1/6 (unless you count Ashli Babbit)

Dude, one was a bunch of dumb anarchist LARPERs trying to live out a utopian fantasy that failed spectacularly and was rightfully disbanded by police. The other was an attempt to sever the continuous, peaceful transfer of power that we've had in this country since our founding and to keep a losing president installed as leader. How on earth can you view them as being of the same degree?

I find it very hard to look at the crowds on January 6th and conclude that they were anything other than LARPers trying to live-out some kind of political fantasy, too.  I was actually disappointed that the Trump protesters could be just as lame as the BLM'ers, to be honest.

As I already said, the actual effect of both these riots (i.e., CHAZ and 1/6) is near-zero in retrospect.  The only difference is that one is being played-up for political gain by Democrats in Congress.   

So to be clear, your complaint is that they weren't successful in keeping Trump in power, despite losing an election? Do you wish they would have hung Mike Pence too?

Also, to say this has a near-zero impact because almost no one died is surreally deluded. The opened pandora's box of election-loss denialism and the threat of violence anytime one side loses has now entered into the mainstream. A democratic society cannot survive when one side only accepts the outcome of elections when they win.

No, I'm just calling the Capitol riot what it obstentiably was:  overweight, alt-right LARPers milling around the Capitol taking selfies until the USCP finally told them to get lost.  If a group of 1200 supposedly well-organized militants can breech the Capitol with violent intent but not manage to actually kill anybody, then you have to question if this description of them is actually that accurate.

The "pandora's box" of election denialism was first opened by Democrats and other liberals who swiftly delegitimized Donald Trump's election in 2016 as an act of invited foreign subversion.  Many of these same Democrats are now the ones running the "Jan. 6th prime time extravagenza" charade. 

[fhtagn]

For the overwhelming majority of the people who went to DC on Jan 6th, it was a mostly peaceful protest.

[MasterJedi]

They know what they saw, they know how they felt. Then they let their Fox News TV hosts tell them what to believe and changed their mind with hours of propaganda leeched away their own critical thinking skills.

[TPIG]

It certainly was just as legitimate as CHAZ or Portland, which left-wing politicians and DAs (including folks in the Biden DOJ!) have been happy to sweep under the rug.  

I know you're not too stupid to not know the difference between nonsense like CHAZ and an attempt to coup the government via insurrection, so why are you pretending to be?

You're too blind with partisan motivations to see these two instances of the usurpation of civil authority as equivalent.  

Even if you think that these two instances are equivalent in kind, you cannot seriously believe that they are equivalent in degree.

Why not?  They both seem to have accomplished the same thing:  nothing.  And unlike CHAZ/Portland, no one was even murdered on 1/6 (unless you count Ashli Babbit)

Dude, one was a bunch of dumb anarchist LARPERs trying to live out a utopian fantasy that failed spectacularly and was rightfully disbanded by police. The other was an attempt to sever the continuous, peaceful transfer of power that we've had in this country since our founding and to keep a losing president installed as leader. How on earth can you view them as being of the same degree?

I find it very hard to look at the crowds on January 6th and conclude that they were anything other than LARPers trying to live-out some kind of political fantasy, too.  I was actually disappointed that the Trump protesters could be just as lame as the BLM'ers, to be honest.

As I already said, the actual effect of both these riots (i.e., CHAZ and 1/6) is near-zero in retrospect.  The only difference is that one is being played-up for political gain by Democrats in Congress.  

So to be clear, your complaint is that they weren't successful in keeping Trump in power, despite losing an election? Do you wish they would have hung Mike Pence too?

Also, to say this has a near-zero impact because almost no one died is surreally deluded. The opened pandora's box of election-loss denialism and the threat of violence anytime one side loses has now entered into the mainstream. A democratic society cannot survive when one side only accepts the outcome of elections when they win.

No, I'm just calling the Capitol riot what it obstentiably was:  overweight, alt-right LARPers milling around the Capitol taking selfies until the USCP finally told them to get lost.  If a group of 1200 supposedly well-organized militants can breech the Capitol with violent intent but not manage to actually kill anybody, then you have to question if this description of them is actually that accurate.

The "pandora's box" of election denialism was first opened by Democrats and other liberals who swiftly delegitimized Donald Trump's election in 2016 as an act of invited foreign subversion.  Many of these same Democrats are now the ones running the "Jan. 6th prime time extravagenza" charade.  

Hillary Clinton conceded the next day, Barack Obama invited Trump to the White House and called on all Americans to give Trump a chance to lead, there were no Democratic mobs that stormed the capitol to stop the certification of electoral college votes. I don't disagree that some of the language utilized by MSNBC talking heads and random members of congress went too far to try and delegitimize Trump's win, but again you have to look at degrees. You're seeing a forest when there's only a couple trees in one case and seeing a couple of trees when there is a forest, in the other.

[GeorgiaModerate]

For the overwhelming majority of the people who went to DC on Jan 6th, it was a mostly peaceful protest.

True.  That in no way mitigates the violent (despite DT's attempts to pretend it was all peaceful) actions of a minority who were in fact bent on interfering with the certification of electoral votes and transfer of power.

[Del Tachi]

It certainly was just as legitimate as CHAZ or Portland, which left-wing politicians and DAs (including folks in the Biden DOJ!) have been happy to sweep under the rug.   

I know you're not too stupid to not know the difference between nonsense like CHAZ and an attempt to coup the government via insurrection, so why are you pretending to be?

You're too blind with partisan motivations to see these two instances of the usurpation of civil authority as equivalent. 

Even if you think that these two instances are equivalent in kind, you cannot seriously believe that they are equivalent in degree.

Why not?  They both seem to have accomplished the same thing:  nothing.  And unlike CHAZ/Portland, no one was even murdered on 1/6 (unless you count Ashli Babbit)

Dude, one was a bunch of dumb anarchist LARPERs trying to live out a utopian fantasy that failed spectacularly and was rightfully disbanded by police. The other was an attempt to sever the continuous, peaceful transfer of power that we've had in this country since our founding and to keep a losing president installed as leader. How on earth can you view them as being of the same degree?

I find it very hard to look at the crowds on January 6th and conclude that they were anything other than LARPers trying to live-out some kind of political fantasy, too.  I was actually disappointed that the Trump protesters could be just as lame as the BLM'ers, to be honest.

As I already said, the actual effect of both these riots (i.e., CHAZ and 1/6) is near-zero in retrospect.  The only difference is that one is being played-up for political gain by Democrats in Congress.   

If the Jan 6 people got everything they wanted, would it have then been considered a coup?

What they were capable of is irrelevant. What was their intent?

So please answer: If they got everything they wanted, and Trump remained in power, what would you have considered the event?

What was the intent of the CHAZ protesters?  To establish and perpetuate a self-governing, autonomous zone outside the jurisdication of any local police and even the United States?  why aren't we having Congressional hearings to investigate those who incited and organized this insurrection against our government?

If any of the protesters inside the Capitol had been in a position to physically harm members of Congress, they would have been shot and killed.  Actual coups are characterized by much more spectacular events:  military/LEO stand-downs, instantaneous popular uprisings, an alternative government declaring authority, counter-revolutions, etc.

If the protesters had been successful at "holding" the Capitol (even though this was never something they were prepared or willing to do), then Congress would have simply convened somewhere else to certify Joe Biden's election as president.  Absent some kind of mass popular uprising all across the country, who is going to recognize Donald Trump as the legitimate president in this scenario?

[GeorgiaModerate]

You're seeing a forest when there's only a couple trees in one case and seeing a couple of trees when there is a forest, in the other.

This is a wonderful metaphor.