Some thoughts on recent BS narratives around abortion

[7,052,770]

You know, you spend way more of your time and words attacking Democrats than attacking Republicans

... the entire post was asking Democrats to stay positive, stop attacking the party, and VOTE in November.

[Devout Centrist]

You know, you spend way more of your time and words attacking Democrats than attacking Republicans

... the entire post was asking Democrats to stay positive, stop attacking the party, and VOTE in November.

Sure as hell doesn’t seem positive to me. Reads like another chance for GMA to sling bile at his ideological opponents.

[SnowLabrador]

Sadly, GMac is correct. Say what you will about the GOP, but they're much better at politics than Democrats.

[7,052,770]

You know, you spend way more of your time and words attacking Democrats than attacking Republicans

... the entire post was asking Democrats to stay positive, stop attacking the party, and VOTE in November.

Sure as hell doesn’t seem positive to me. Reads like another chance for GMA to sling bile at his ideological opponents.

What bile? What opponents? People need to live in the real world and understand the only way to fight this is to vote for pro-choice Democrats in November. There is no viable alternative to that, and people who are promising not to vote this November as protest Biden need to understand how that will make things worse.

Calling GMac a Republican, Libertarian, etc., makes no sense. He's unquestionably the #1 most loyal defender of the Democratic Party on here.

[GP270watch]

Crappy Democrats like G-Mac are why we have failed on so many policy goals. Warren is actually proposing ideas so that abortion is not illegal which does a tremendous current harm to women now. Abortion is a comprehensive part of women's healthcare, according to every mainstream medical organization. Waiting to vote in November is a defeatist and stupid message. Clarence Thomas is married to an insurrectionist. The GOP is playing a different game and the Democrats are still fighting with Queensberry rules.

Love to write a comprehensive post explaining several detailed reasons why Warren's ideas won't work, only for Atlas's #1 Warren stan to swoop in with "Warren is actually proposing ideas" as though that's a counterpoint to my post.  Completely ignoring what I actually wrote about those ideas.  I hate this place.

 You didn't write anything of note but your opinion like most of your hair-brained arguments, it's just your opinion. Democrats need to try new ideas because the totally partisan rightwing court is taking rights away from people, and it is now or will soon be illegal to provide women critical healthcare in a number of states. President Warren wouldn't have been as weak as Biden has been on this issue. Anybody who doesn't know this is living in a dream world. If you're going to tell people to vote as your grand solution maybe that should be the real message. Vote out all these weak Democrats with ones who will actually fight with every power the Federal government has for the policy you want.

 If Koch industries had a paid sock puppet account on Forum Atlas as they've been known to do on the internet, one pretending to be Democrat, I don't think the style of posting and arguments would be any different than the kind of stuff G-Mac posts.

[darklordoftech]

Sadly, GMac is correct. Say what you will about the GOP, but they're much better at politics than Democrats.

If the GOP followed GMac’s advise, Trump and Cruz would have kept attacking each other after the 2016 primaries.

[Devout Centrist]

You know, you spend way more of your time and words attacking Democrats than attacking Republicans

... the entire post was asking Democrats to stay positive, stop attacking the party, and VOTE in November.

Sure as hell doesn’t seem positive to me. Reads like another chance for GMA to sling bile at his ideological opponents.

What bile? What opponents?

You can’t be serious, my dude.

This is another stupid idea that's being pushed by a lot of the usual suspects.  This one is being primarily pushed by Warren and it does have all the hallmarks of a stupid Warren idea

Like that's just obviously not how anything works.  But people don't think about these things.  They just read an AOC tweet and think it's a real idea.

I don't think 95% of the people, including AOC, actually know what this means, but AOC tweeted it so now it's a thing everyone's saying. 

This is a stupid talking point that I'm seeing everywhere, the most prominent tweet being from Adam McKay (you know, David Sirota's best buddy).

There's a super-duper-viral clip of a girl from "Rise Up 4 Abortion Rights", a spinoff of the Revolutionary Communist Party that has been denounced by other abortion rights groups as a scam, but is being elevated by AOC, promoting this talking point, so that's where I think most everyone is copying it from.  But I've just seen it f---ing everywhere.

That’s just from this post alone. I could go back and catalog every example of this, but it would be a complete waste of time. This is obviously him lashing out at his ideological enemies! I don’t even *like* most of these people, but come on man! It’s right here!

[7,052,770]

.
 If Koch industries had a paid sock puppet account on Forum Atlas as they've been known to do on the internet, one pretending to be Democrat, I don't think the style of posting and arguments would be any different than the kind of stuff G-Mac posts.

This is such a bizarre assertion that I'm not sure how to respond to it. The "threafs" GMac is known for are always detailed defenses of Biden and the Democratic Party, why they're good and why we should vote for them. If someone wanted to sock a Democrat to hurt the party, they would be doing the opposite, telling people that Biden is awful and to sit out Novmeber to send the party a message.

[President Punxsutawney Phil]

.
 If Koch industries had a paid sock puppet account on Forum Atlas as they've been known to do on the internet, one pretending to be Democrat, I don't think the style of posting and arguments would be any different than the kind of stuff G-Mac posts.

This is such a bizarre assertion that I'm not sure how to respond to it. The "threafs" GMac is known for are always detailed defenses of Biden and the Democratic Party, why they're good and why we should vote for them. If someone wanted to sock a Democrat to hurt the party, they would be doing the opposite, telling people that Biden is awful and to sit out Novmeber to send the party a message.

Precisely.

[Former President tack50]

For what is worth, could you cover this spin-off of the "open abortion clinics on federal land"? which is Open abortion clinics as part of the US Postal Service. I don't think it'd work (certainly wouldn't pass any serious legal review) but it's an argument I've seen made that since it's an explicit power of the US federal government, it could be done. Though I suppose the USPS could make "mail order, DIY abortions" somehow but that seems like a remedy even worse.

[7,052,770]

You know, you spend way more of your time and words attacking Democrats than attacking Republicans

... the entire post was asking Democrats to stay positive, stop attacking the party, and VOTE in November.

Sure as hell doesn’t seem positive to me. Reads like another chance for GMA to sling bile at his ideological opponents.

What bile? What opponents?

You can’t be serious, my dude.

This is another stupid idea that's being pushed by a lot of the usual suspects.  This one is being primarily pushed by Warren and it does have all the hallmarks of a stupid Warren idea

Like that's just obviously not how anything works.  But people don't think about these things.  They just read an AOC tweet and think it's a real idea.

I don't think 95% of the people, including AOC, actually know what this means, but AOC tweeted it so now it's a thing everyone's saying. 

This is a stupid talking point that I'm seeing everywhere, the most prominent tweet being from Adam McKay (you know, David Sirota's best buddy).

There's a super-duper-viral clip of a girl from "Rise Up 4 Abortion Rights", a spinoff of the Revolutionary Communist Party that has been denounced by other abortion rights groups as a scam, but is being elevated by AOC, promoting this talking point, so that's where I think most everyone is copying it from.  But I've just seen it f---ing everywhere.

That’s just from this post alone. I could go back and catalog every example of this, but it would be a complete waste of time. This is obviously him lashing out at his ideological enemies! I don’t even *like* most of these people, but come on man! It’s right here!

Sorry, I'm not seeing any "bile." Some disagreements with the people who are refusing to vote Democratic anymore because they think that Biden could have stopped this somehow, sure, but nothing nearly on the level you're implying.

[7,052,770]

You didn't write anything of note but your opinion like most of your hair-brained arguments, it's just your opinion. Democrats need to try new ideas because the totally partisan rightwing court is taking rights away from people, and it is now or will soon be illegal to provide women critical healthcare in a number of states. President Warren wouldn't have been as weak as Biden has been on this issue. Anybody who doesn't know this is living in a dream world. If you're going to tell people to vote as your grand solution maybe that should be the real message. Vote out all these weak Democrats with ones who will actually fight with every power the Federal government has for the policy you want.

In the unlikely event that Warren had beaten Trump at all, much less had the coattails to hold win both Houses of Congress, there's nothing more she would be able to do, unless you think she would have special sway with Manchin and Sinema, or that she could have gotten 2 more Democratic Senators elected. The president is not a dictator.

[President Punxsutawney Phil]

You didn't write anything of note but your opinion like most of your hair-brained arguments, it's just your opinion. Democrats need to try new ideas because the totally partisan rightwing court is taking rights away from people, and it is now or will soon be illegal to provide women critical healthcare in a number of states. President Warren wouldn't have been as weak as Biden has been on this issue. Anybody who doesn't know this is living in a dream world. If you're going to tell people to vote as your grand solution maybe that should be the real message. Vote out all these weak Democrats with ones who will actually fight with every power the Federal government has for the policy you want.

In the unlikely event that Warren had beaten Trump at all, much less had the coattails to hold win both Houses of Congress, there's nothing more she would be able to do, unless you think she would have special sway with Manchin and Sinema, or that she could have gotten 2 more Democratic Senators elected. The president is not a dictator.

And a lot of people don't realize this. They've internalized what Trump only thinks the President ought to be. Good thing Biden's smarter than that.

[Donerail]

Open abortion clinics on federal land

words words words.

Why do you believe the abortion clinics would have to be constructed and staffed from scratch in remote wildlife refuges(??) and not, for example, run through the large network of fully functioning hospitals that the federal government already operates?

[GP270watch]

.
 If Koch industries had a paid sock puppet account on Forum Atlas as they've been known to do on the internet, one pretending to be Democrat, I don't think the style of posting and arguments would be any different than the kind of stuff G-Mac posts.

This is such a bizarre assertion that I'm not sure how to respond to it. The "threafs" GMac is known for are always detailed defenses of Biden and the Democratic Party, why they're good and why we should vote for them. If someone wanted to sock a Democrat to hurt the party, they would be doing the opposite, telling people that Biden is awful and to sit out Novmeber to send the party a message.

 That's not the way Koch Industries works. They try to shape policy no matter who's in charge or what politcal party wins. Biden was the choice of many people who don't support Democrats if a Democrat was to win because they thought he would be moderate/conservative, not shake things up, and ultimately be ineffectual.

 There are things I like about Biden but that doesn't mean he is above criticism when he is messing up. On this issues he is messing up. And all you have to do is look at the outrage of young Democratic voters that we need to win elections. They want action not a fundraising email and "We'll get them in November".

 The idea that the GOP is just better at politics has some basic merit but is eroded by their unashamed willingness to use anything that gives them power, change the rules to suit them, and use the full power of any office they hold including the courts which are not supposed to be political.

 The only bullsh**t narrative surrounding abortion, is that it's been classified as anything but healthcare and is now criminalized in great portions of this country. That's the bullsh**t narrative.

[GP270watch]

You didn't write anything of note but your opinion like most of your hair-brained arguments, it's just your opinion. Democrats need to try new ideas because the totally partisan rightwing court is taking rights away from people, and it is now or will soon be illegal to provide women critical healthcare in a number of states. President Warren wouldn't have been as weak as Biden has been on this issue. Anybody who doesn't know this is living in a dream world. If you're going to tell people to vote as your grand solution maybe that should be the real message. Vote out all these weak Democrats with ones who will actually fight with every power the Federal government has for the policy you want.

In the unlikely event that Warren had beaten Trump at all, much less had the coattails to hold win both Houses of Congress, there's nothing more she would be able to do, unless you think she would have special sway with Manchin and Sinema, or that she could have gotten 2 more Democratic Senators elected. The president is not a dictator.

 I guess we have the government we deserve. There are very few prominent Democratic women politicians who would have taken this decision with the tepid response of Biden. Warren, Clinton, Kamala Harris, any of them would have used whatever power they had to protect abortion in every state.

https://twitter.com/i/status/1540951167231938561

[7,052,770]

You didn't write anything of note but your opinion like most of your hair-brained arguments, it's just your opinion. Democrats need to try new ideas because the totally partisan rightwing court is taking rights away from people, and it is now or will soon be illegal to provide women critical healthcare in a number of states. President Warren wouldn't have been as weak as Biden has been on this issue. Anybody who doesn't know this is living in a dream world. If you're going to tell people to vote as your grand solution maybe that should be the real message. Vote out all these weak Democrats with ones who will actually fight with every power the Federal government has for the policy you want.

In the unlikely event that Warren had beaten Trump at all, much less had the coattails to hold win both Houses of Congress, there's nothing more she would be able to do, unless you think she would have special sway with Manchin and Sinema, or that she could have gotten 2 more Democratic Senators elected. The president is not a dictator.

 I guess we have the government we deserve. There are very few prominent Democratic women politicians who would have taken this decision with the tepid response of Biden. Warren, Clinton, Kamala Harris, any of them would have used whatever power they had to protect abortion in every state.

There's nothing any of them could do other than beg people to vote in more Democrats in November

[Devout Centrist]

There's nothing any of them could do other than beg people to vote in more Democrats in November

There is actually quite a bit more that Democrats at the Federal level can do, but:

1. They respect our (broken) institutions more than they care about abortion rights.
2. They are paralyzed by a sense of learned helplessness and lack of initiative when it comes to responding to these rulings.

[GP270watch]

You didn't write anything of note but your opinion like most of your hair-brained arguments, it's just your opinion. Democrats need to try new ideas because the totally partisan rightwing court is taking rights away from people, and it is now or will soon be illegal to provide women critical healthcare in a number of states. President Warren wouldn't have been as weak as Biden has been on this issue. Anybody who doesn't know this is living in a dream world. If you're going to tell people to vote as your grand solution maybe that should be the real message. Vote out all these weak Democrats with ones who will actually fight with every power the Federal government has for the policy you want.

In the unlikely event that Warren had beaten Trump at all, much less had the coattails to hold win both Houses of Congress, there's nothing more she would be able to do, unless you think she would have special sway with Manchin and Sinema, or that she could have gotten 2 more Democratic Senators elected. The president is not a dictator.

 I guess we have the government we deserve. There are very few prominent Democratic women politicians who would have taken this decision with the tepid response of Biden. Warren, Clinton, Kamala Harris, any of them would have used whatever power they had to protect abortion in every state.

There's nothing any of them could do other than beg people to vote in more Democrats in November

 That's not true. They could attempt to do a number of things and let the chips fall where they might. The United States government is always changing. The Federal government has powers today that it's didn't have 25 years ago, or 50 and many of these have not come from legislation or even court rulings but by operating in the full power of the many Federal agencies and simple Presidential discretion that then is accepted as normal. November could come Democrats could pickup a few seats(which is not the predicted outcome) and we could still be in the same dysfunctional stalemate.

 Nevermind the fact that the Senate is totally undemocratic the current Senate rules are not how it's operated since it's beginning.

The Filibuster, Explained

The procedure, whose use has increased dramatically in recent decades, has troubling implications for democracy.

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

"Codify Roe" never made any sense to me. What's stopping the Supreme Court from just overturning that law that did so as well?

The federal and tribal land ideas aren't that out there or crazy though. The Hyde Amendment is a big obstacle but if that was repealed as noted it wouldn't be that difficult and there's plenty of federal land that isn't remote. As for staff, well that applies already in very conservative areas. It's not like people cared pre-Dobbs that what they were doing was legal if they were opposed to abortion. And the tribal land idea was actually floated in 2006 when the Pine Ridge chairwoman tried to open such a clinic on Pine Ridge land in response to a South Dakota abortion ban in case the Supreme Court upheld it then. That was moot after the ban was rejected in a referendum but the idea isn't out of nowhere.

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

For what is worth, could you cover this spin-off of the "open abortion clinics on federal land"? which is Open abortion clinics as part of the US Postal Service. I don't think it'd work (certainly wouldn't pass any serious legal review) but it's an argument I've seen made that since it's an explicit power of the US federal government, it could be done. Though I suppose the USPS could make "mail order, DIY abortions" somehow but that seems like a remedy even worse.

This wouldn't be possible for about a million reasons, even ignoring the logistical issues of the constant protestors you'd have in Post Offices and states would have ways to interfere. I also don't think post offices are on federal land, just land bought by the US Postal Service to build the building, and anyone whose been in a US Post Office knows the issues with setting up an attached clinic.

"Federal land" falls under a lot of categories but most is land administered by some federal agency like the National Park/Forestry/Fish and Wildlife Service or the federal Bureau of Land Management. Like there's a map here: https://ballotpedia.org/Federal_land_policy_in_North_Dakota

Most of it would have serious logistical issues building such a clinic but it's probably not impossible per se in all ares.

[7,052,770]

You didn't write anything of note but your opinion like most of your hair-brained arguments, it's just your opinion. Democrats need to try new ideas because the totally partisan rightwing court is taking rights away from people, and it is now or will soon be illegal to provide women critical healthcare in a number of states. President Warren wouldn't have been as weak as Biden has been on this issue. Anybody who doesn't know this is living in a dream world. If you're going to tell people to vote as your grand solution maybe that should be the real message. Vote out all these weak Democrats with ones who will actually fight with every power the Federal government has for the policy you want.

In the unlikely event that Warren had beaten Trump at all, much less had the coattails to hold win both Houses of Congress, there's nothing more she would be able to do, unless you think she would have special sway with Manchin and Sinema, or that she could have gotten 2 more Democratic Senators elected. The president is not a dictator.

 I guess we have the government we deserve. There are very few prominent Democratic women politicians who would have taken this decision with the tepid response of Biden. Warren, Clinton, Kamala Harris, any of them would have used whatever power they had to protect abortion in every state.

There's nothing any of them could do other than beg people to vote in more Democrats in November

 That's not true. They could attempt to do a number of things and let the chips fall where they might. The United States government is always changing. The Federal government has powers today that it's didn't have 25 years ago, or 50 and many of these have not come from legislation or even court rulings but by operating in the full power of the many Federal agencies and simple Presidential discretion that then is accepted as normal. November could come Democrats could pickup a few seats(which is not the predicted outcome) and we could still be in the same dysfunctional stalemate.

 Nevermind the fact that the Senate is totally undemocratic the current Senate rules are not how it's operated since it's beginning.

The Filibuster, Explained

The procedure, whose use has increased dramatically in recent decades, has troubling implications for democracy.

I'm well aware of the filibuster. President Warren wouldn't be able to wish it away any more than President Biden can, unless your argument is that she could flipped the ME and NC Senate races in 2020 in her coattails.

[GP270watch]

For what is worth, could you cover this spin-off of the "open abortion clinics on federal land"? which is Open abortion clinics as part of the US Postal Service. I don't think it'd work (certainly wouldn't pass any serious legal review) but it's an argument I've seen made that since it's an explicit power of the US federal government, it could be done. Though I suppose the USPS could make "mail order, DIY abortions" somehow but that seems like a remedy even worse.

This wouldn't be possible for about a million reasons, even ignoring the logistical issues of the constant protestors you'd have in Post Offices and states would have ways to interfere. I also don't think post offices are on federal land, just land bought by the US Postal Service to build the building, and anyone whose been in a US Post Office knows the issues with setting up an attached clinic.

"Federal land" falls under a lot of categories but most is land administered by some federal agency like the National Park/Forestry/Fish and Wildlife Service or the federal Bureau of Land Management. Like there's a map here: https://ballotpedia.org/Federal_land_policy_in_North_Dakota

Most of it would have serious logistical issues building such a clinic but it's probably not impossible per se in all ares.

USPS offices are considered Federal property. You can not for instance follow your state's gun laws as superseding the Federal law.

No person on U.S. Postal Service® property may carry or store firearms, explosives, or other dangerous or deadly weapons, either openly or concealed, except for official purposes. See Title 39, Code of Federal Regulations, Section 232.1.

[jamestroll]

There is a reason Youngkin is my favorite GOP governor.

In 2020, the Democrats campaign platform was:

1) keeping people unemployed and on checks

2) keeping kids out of school

3) mass gatherings to burn down buildings and rioting.

After Trumpkin, many Democrats started to distance themselves from that nonsense.

[GeneralMacArthur]

Open abortion clinics on federal land

words words words.

Why do you believe the abortion clinics would have to be constructed and staffed from scratch in remote wildlife refuges(??) and not, for example, run through the large network of fully functioning hospitals that the federal government already operates?

What large network of fully-functioning hospitals?  Are you talking about military bases?  Almost all federal land is national parks, national forests, fishing + wildlife areas, swampland, mountain ranges, and other such areas managed by the BLM.

Military bases are actually a more reasonable option than the national parks and tribal land that Warrenites have been talking about, but still require a massive set of changes in current policy.  For one, U.S. Code strictly prohibits this.  Let's pretend you can overturn that.  You then also have to create all this infrastructure to give civilians access to military bases and hospitals for abortion services, which will run into dozens of different roadblocks since the entire point of the military hospital system was for that to not happen.  Let's be generous and say you can get around all that too.  You then have to provide funding for these services, which can be done through reconciliation, but only if you have complete Dem control of the presidency and both houses of Congress.  So again it's not a permanent solution and you likely won't even get the chance to do it because we're going to lose at least the House by the time the next budget rolls around.  But let's say we do keep both houses.  Then you still have to deal with the problem that these military bases are in red states and those red states will do everything in their power to prevent this from happening and persecute those receiving or performing abortions.  So it's not as logistically impossible as the national parks idea but it's still not a realistic solution to the problem.