Why is Madison's sphere of political influence so large?

[ProgressiveModerate]

Madison itself being such a liberal place isn't suprising given colleges and the surge in STEM industry there.

However, the fact that there are literally NO conservative/Republican suburbs is pretty unusual, even for such a liberal place. Take Austin for instance, widely considered to be a very liberal city; you still have conservative suburbs to the North and West of the city.

Another thing unusual about Madison is there's actually a blue exurban/rural bubble around the city; areas too far out for people to realistically be commuting into work in downtown. The bubble is obviously centered around Madison and takes quite a while to fade into more "normal" Republican leaning rural areas.

It's also important to note Madison really isn't a particularly big city by any means.

Is there a reason its influence seems particularly powerful on the politics of surrounding communities so far out.

[RINO Tom]

Anecdotal, but I knew a girl from college who was from Verona, and she was incredibly liberal.  It did of course turn out that she was a lesbian (hope I played no part in that realization … lol), so maybe that played a part here, but she said it’s just a “cultural” thing, and I think we underestimate the simple power of groupthink here.  In other words, Madison is known as an incredibly unique and cool place within the Midwest (and especially within Wisconsin), and it ALSO happens to be very liberal … so people who are even kind of close enough to its orbit want to be a part of this identity.  Furthermore, people who desire to be around that type of atmosphere are flocking to these (growing) areas, making it a self-fulfilling prophecy.

I also think many suburbanites are conservative and under the guise that the inner city around which they live is some third-world hell hole - talk to a WOW suburbanite about Milwaukee some time… - and you can’t really play that spin with Madison.  Add on top of that, that rural Wisconsin was fairly Democratic not that long ago, and it’s not surprising that Madison’s suburbs and exurbs are way more liberal than somewhere like Austin.  As to a further explanation for why they are as liberal as they are, though, this is pretty much all I’ve got.

[Sol]

A lot of college towns have a sort of fan of influence which extends out into surrounding rural areas. Consider northern Orange and Chatham in NC, Albemarle in VA, Western Washtenaw, rural Lane Co., etc. Places like this are often the product of sort of natural self-sorting, where the sorts of people who prefer living in a rural place but are otherwise similar to the folks living in town end up on the fringes.

Austin doesn't really have an area like this, but that's mostly because Austin is a full-blown city so most land within an easy distance of the college is suburbia, as opposed to Madison, which has a relatively narrow belt of suburbs. Plus the Texas Hill Country is a much more conservative region than the Wisconsin Driftless.

[Gass3268]

At the Presidential Level, the vast majority Dane County has leaned Democratic since the New Deal/Depression.

However, Republicans had strength lower down on the ballot as recent as the late 90's.

https://twitter.com/JMilesColeman/status/1134979633722658817?s=20&t=Lv5UGFfg...

The Iraq War/Bush and Act 10/Walker killed that.

[Unelectable Bystander]

Madison itself being such a liberal place isn't suprising given colleges and the surge in STEM industry there.

However, the fact that there are literally NO conservative/Republican suburbs is pretty unusual, even for such a liberal place. Take Austin for instance, widely considered to be a very liberal city; you still have conservative suburbs to the North and West of the city.

Another thing unusual about Madison is there's actually a blue exurban/rural bubble around the city; areas too far out for people to realistically be commuting into work in downtown. The bubble is obviously centered around Madison and takes quite a while to fade into more "normal" Republican leaning rural areas.

It's also important to note Madison really isn't a particularly big city by any means.

Is there a reason its influence seems particularly powerful on the politics of surrounding communities so far out.

This is a good thread as I believe most people don’t realize just how liberal the Madison metro is, especially considering it’s small-ish size and large white population. These exurbs and rurals are somewhat significant within the state overall and help D’s to stay competitive in the state. I think Rino Tom has the strongest explanation I can think of

[Indy Texas]

Anecdotal, but I knew a girl from college who was from Verona, and she was incredibly liberal.  It did of course turn out that she was a lesbian (hope I played no part in that realization … lol), so maybe that played a part here, but she said it’s just a “cultural” thing, and I think we underestimate the simple power of groupthink here.  In other words, Madison is known as an incredibly unique and cool place within the Midwest (and especially within Wisconsin), and it ALSO happens to be very liberal … so people who are even kind of close enough to its orbit want to be a part of this identity.  Furthermore, people who desire to be around that type of atmosphere are flocking to these (growing) areas, making it a self-fulfilling prophecy.

I also think many suburbanites are conservative and under the guise that the inner city around which they live is some third-world hell hole - talk to a WOW suburbanite about Milwaukee some time… - and you can’t really play that spin with Madison.  Add on top of that, that rural Wisconsin was fairly Democratic not that long ago, and it’s not surprising that Madison’s suburbs and exurbs are way more liberal than somewhere like Austin.  As to a further explanation for why they are as liberal as they are, though, this is pretty much all I’ve got.

I lived in Madison for three years and I cannot stress enough how very, very, very white the place is.

[Gass3268]

Anecdotal, but I knew a girl from college who was from Verona, and she was incredibly liberal.  It did of course turn out that she was a lesbian (hope I played no part in that realization … lol), so maybe that played a part here, but she said it’s just a “cultural” thing, and I think we underestimate the simple power of groupthink here.  In other words, Madison is known as an incredibly unique and cool place within the Midwest (and especially within Wisconsin), and it ALSO happens to be very liberal … so people who are even kind of close enough to its orbit want to be a part of this identity.  Furthermore, people who desire to be around that type of atmosphere are flocking to these (growing) areas, making it a self-fulfilling prophecy.

I also think many suburbanites are conservative and under the guise that the inner city around which they live is some third-world hell hole - talk to a WOW suburbanite about Milwaukee some time… - and you can’t really play that spin with Madison.  Add on top of that, that rural Wisconsin was fairly Democratic not that long ago, and it’s not surprising that Madison’s suburbs and exurbs are way more liberal than somewhere like Austin.  As to a further explanation for why they are as liberal as they are, though, this is pretty much all I’ve got.

I lived in Madison for three years and I cannot stress enough how very, very, very white the place is.

It is getting less so however:

Total Population 2010

Total   233,011   100.0%
White   176,538   75.8%
Hispanic   15,917   6.8%
Black   20,450   8.8%
Asian   19,341   8.3%
Native   2,416   1.0%
Pacific   278   0.1%

Total Population 2020

Pop   %
Total   269,840   100.0%
White   186,764   69.2% (-6.6%)
Hispanic   23,408   8.7% (+1.9%)
Black   25,531   9.5% (+0.7%)
Asian   30,028   11.1% (+2.8%)
Native   4,785   1.8% (+0.8%)
Pacific   428   0.2% (+0.1%)

[Adam Griffin]

I think several things makes Dane County unique, but I believe its general size and existing distribution play a massive role.

Dane County as a whole is huge. It's bigger than Rhode Island, DC, American Samoa and the other outlying US islands combined. Madison proper is a giant cluster that takes up less than 10% of this area (and houses 50% of the population). Outside of this, there's relatively...nothing. Exclude the remaining incorporated outlying towns and you still have a landmass the size of RI with 100k people living within it.



Of course there are towns in Dane that are growing, but it's mainly one tightly-knit, compact, big city with these towns adjacent to it, followed by lots of open rural terrain in all directions. Most places - even of its size - tend to have an urban core followed by a blob of gradually-dwindling population density that makes rural life undesirable in a variety of ways (distance/commutes, culture, etc). You might have to live 50 miles away from the city center in many metros to have the same degree of isolation just 5-10 miles outside of downtown Madison.

It might surprise people, but there are many liberals who'd prefer to live in a rural area if they don't have to be surrounded by stereotypically backwards people and have easy access to civilization. With it being a liberal hub/mecca for many, I think it has attracted this type in greater numbers who can easily and quickly get to the city while enjoying more isolated living conditions at the same time.

[King of Kensington]

Looks like the demographic profile of Seattle 30 years ago.

[RINO Tom]

Anecdotal, but I knew a girl from college who was from Verona, and she was incredibly liberal.  It did of course turn out that she was a lesbian (hope I played no part in that realization … lol), so maybe that played a part here, but she said it’s just a “cultural” thing, and I think we underestimate the simple power of groupthink here.  In other words, Madison is known as an incredibly unique and cool place within the Midwest (and especially within Wisconsin), and it ALSO happens to be very liberal … so people who are even kind of close enough to its orbit want to be a part of this identity.  Furthermore, people who desire to be around that type of atmosphere are flocking to these (growing) areas, making it a self-fulfilling prophecy.

I also think many suburbanites are conservative and under the guise that the inner city around which they live is some third-world hell hole - talk to a WOW suburbanite about Milwaukee some time… - and you can’t really play that spin with Madison.  Add on top of that, that rural Wisconsin was fairly Democratic not that long ago, and it’s not surprising that Madison’s suburbs and exurbs are way more liberal than somewhere like Austin.  As to a further explanation for why they are as liberal as they are, though, this is pretty much all I’ve got.

I lived in Madison for three years and I cannot stress enough how very, very, very white the place is.

It is getting less so however:

Total Population 2010

Total   233,011   100.0%
White   176,538   75.8%
Hispanic   15,917   6.8%
Black   20,450   8.8%
Asian   19,341   8.3%
Native   2,416   1.0%
Pacific   278   0.1%

Total Population 2020

Pop   %
Total   269,840   100.0%
White   186,764   69.2% (-6.6%)
Hispanic   23,408   8.7% (+1.9%)
Black   25,531   9.5% (+0.7%)
Asian   30,028   11.1% (+2.8%)
Native   4,785   1.8% (+0.8%)
Pacific   428   0.2% (+0.1%)

I’d wager the places in Madison that “visitors actually go” seem as White as ever to the casual observer, though.

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

FWIW every time I've been to Madison I've always been a bit surprised it's as hyper-liberal as it is because it doesn't have that "feel" at all outside of the isthmus and immediately neighboring areas. There's a lot of areas that are full of strip malls, chain fast food places, etc. that seem kind of indistinguishable from places like my home in Bismarck or even the more dense areas of WOW. And yes there's a lot of places like that that vote D now, but not to that level or as long as it has.

[cvparty]

FWIW every time I've been to Madison I've always been a bit surprised it's as hyper-liberal as it is because it doesn't have that "feel" at all outside of the isthmus and immediately neighboring areas. There's a lot of areas that are full of strip malls, chain fast food places, etc. that seem kind of indistinguishable from places like my home in Bismarck or even the more dense areas of WOW. And yes there's a lot of places like that that vote D now, but not to that level or as long as it has.

I mean, in general a population’s political leanings tend to have little bearing on the appearance of the area

[Nyvin]

To a lesser extent Boulder CO and Ann Arbor MI also share the same traits as Madison.

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

So interestingly this picture is from within Madison city limits.

 

[Aurelius]

So interestingly this picture is from within Madison city limits.

 

Liberals need infrastructure too.

I'd bet though that the people operating those are far more right wing than your average rural Wisconsinite.

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

So interestingly this picture is from within Madison city limits.

 

Liberals need infrastructure too.

I'd bet though that the people operating those are far more right wing than your average rural Wisconsinite.

Uh why? If they're in Madison that's a guarantee that they're well left of rural Wisconsin.

[Aurelius]

So interestingly this picture is from within Madison city limits.

 

Liberals need infrastructure too.

I'd bet though that the people operating those are far more right wing than your average rural Wisconsinite.

Uh why? If they're in Madison that's a guarantee that they're well left of rural Wisconsin.

Nope, not at all. Even in Madison 10% are Republicans, and plenty of workers in Madison commute from the suburbs and countryside, which are much less monolithically blue than the city proper. White men in the skilled trades and similar jobs in big blue cities are about as right-wing as it gets.

[cvparty]

So interestingly this picture is from within Madison city limits.

 

Liberals need infrastructure too.

I'd bet though that the people operating those are far more right wing than your average rural Wisconsinite.

Uh why? If they're in Madison that's a guarantee that they're well left of rural Wisconsin.

Nope, not at all. Even in Madison 10% are Republicans, and plenty of workers in Madison commute from the suburbs and countryside, which are much less monolithically blue than the city proper. White men in the skilled trades and similar jobs in big blue cities are about as right-wing as it gets.

but madison is a majority-white, very democratic city (with a heavy college cultural influence too), which are a lot less racially polarized. if urban wwc voters lean republican, there tend to be red enclaves in that city (ex. ny, philly, chicago)

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

Yeah, I also really doubt city workers in Minneapolis for example are conservative. I know some after all, and they're not. No reason Madison would be much different.

Also worth remembering not everyone who works public manual labor jobs is "working class", a lot have college degrees but make more in such a job (like the Minneapolis city workers I know.)

[Calthrina950]

I find it fascinating how Dane County has, for decades, voted to the left of Milwaukee County. This was true as far back as 1956, when Eisenhower carried Milwaukee County by 12.3% but Dane County by only 2.7%. I assume this is because Dane County whites vote to the left of Milwaukee whites. That was certainly the case in 2020, with 74% of Dane whites voting for Biden, compared to "only" 58% of Milwaukee whites, per Reagente's White Vote by County map.

[GregTheGreat657]

Ithaca, NY has a similar thing going on. While Ithaca proper only has about 30,000 with the town of Ithaca having about 20,000, Biden voting areas have spilled over into nearby areas. These areas would almost certainly have voted heavily for Trump if not for the nearby precense of Ithaca.

[Roll Roons]

Ithaca, NY has a similar thing going on. While Ithaca proper only has about 30,000 with the town of Ithaca having about 20,000, Biden voting areas have spilled over into nearby areas. These areas would almost certainly have voted heavily for Trump if not for the nearby precense of Ithaca.

Ithaca's influence largely stops at the boundaries of Tompkins County while Madison's extends into Sauk, Iowa and Columbia.

Then again, Ithaca is fairly small and the only thing it really has is Cornell. Madison is much larger and has UW, a huge employer in Epic Systems and its status as the state capital.

[GregTheGreat657]

Ithaca, NY has a similar thing going on. While Ithaca proper only has about 30,000 with the town of Ithaca having about 20,000, Biden voting areas have spilled over into nearby areas. These areas would almost certainly have voted heavily for Trump if not for the nearby precense of Ithaca.

Ithaca's influence largely stops at the boundaries of Tompkins County while Madison's extends into Sauk, Iowa and Columbia.

Then again, the only thing Ithaca really has is Cornell. Madison is much larger and has UW, a huge employer in Epic Systems and its status as the state capital.

It's more so the fact that Ithaca's influence even expands slightly beyond the Tompkins County borders. For example, the town of Hector in Schuyler County voted for Biden (albeit by a narrow margin), despite being over 90% white. From the air, it looks like any other small town in the Finger Lakes region, but it does not vote very much like other seemingly similar towns in the region, which all gave Trump comfortable margins.

[Vosem]

Wisconsin feels further along than other places in people of different political sensibilities preferring to live separately from each other, right? The flipside of the question of why Dane has gotten so strangely blue is the question of why Waukesha has remained so strangely red compared to similar suburbs.

[Vosem]

Ithaca, NY has a similar thing going on. While Ithaca proper only has about 30,000 with the town of Ithaca having about 20,000, Biden voting areas have spilled over into nearby areas. These areas would almost certainly have voted heavily for Trump if not for the nearby precense of Ithaca.

Ithaca's influence largely stops at the boundaries of Tompkins County while Madison's extends into Sauk, Iowa and Columbia.

Then again, the only thing Ithaca really has is Cornell. Madison is much larger and has UW, a huge employer in Epic Systems and its status as the state capital.

It's more so the fact that Ithaca's influence even expands slightly beyond the Tompkins County borders. For example, the town of Hector in Schuyler County voted for Biden (albeit by a narrow margin), despite being over 90% white. From the air, it looks like any other small town in the Finger Lakes region, but it does not vote very much like other seemingly similar towns in the region, which all gave Trump comfortable margins.

Athens, OH, also does this.