Socialist Medicine Breaks Records!

[Bono]

www.guinessworldrecords.com/records/human_body/medical_marvels/longest_hospital_trolley_duration.aspx

Longest Hospital Trolley Duration
   

WHO:
Tony Collins
WHAT:
77 hrs 30 mins
WHERE:
Swindon, Wiltshire, UK
WHEN:
February 24–27, 2001
   

The UK's Tony Collins holds the Guinness World Record for the longest wait on a hospital trolley after spending 77 hours and 30 minutes stuck outside the toilets in the Princess Margaret Hospital, Swindon, UK, between February 24 and 27, 2001.

“I’d contracted a virus,” said Tony about his record-breaking experience, “and although I was taken in at 3 p.m. on the Saturday, it wasn’t until 8.30 p.m. on the Tuesday that I was found a bed in another ward, when an elderly patient was moved to make room for me.”

“I developed a bad back, had no privacy, and had to rely on the nurses to bring me a drink because there was nowhere to rest a jug!”

Despite his ordeal, Tony, a diabetic, returned to the hospital the day after he was released to thank the nurses who helped him deal with his pain – and give them a gift of a microwave oven!

“I can think of better records to have,” reflected the bed-sore superstar. “And unfortunately, it will probably be the sort of record that gets broken every day in the NHS.”

Ironically, as Guinness World Records researchers were considering his claim, Tony fell ill again, was forced to go back into hospital – and was left on a trolley for another 60 hours!

[MaC]

nobody's commenting because you finally got a great article that nobody can refute and they'd be embarrased to admit that this system of medicine is a horrible one.

[Gabu]

nobody's commenting because you finally got a great article that nobody can refute and they'd be embarrased to admit that this system of medicine is a horrible one.

Nobody's commenting because Bono talks only in terms of random articles he finds that are all specifically chosen for display in an attempt to substaniate his predetermined conclusion.

I'm sure that there are those out there that show people having no problem whatsoever with this sort of system, but Bono would never display those articles because then he might have to deal with contradictory information that would lead him into cognitive dissonance.  Much simpler just to ignore the existence of such information.

[Alcon]

nobody's commenting because you finally got a great article that nobody can refute and they'd be embarrased to admit that this system of medicine is a horrible one.

The article is not refutable.

It's also not particularly relevant to the overall discussion.

[MaC]

nobody's commenting because you finally got a great article that nobody can refute and they'd be embarrased to admit that this system of medicine is a horrible one.

Nobody's commenting because Bono talks only in terms of random articles he finds that are all specifically chosen for display in an attempt to substaniate his predetermined conclusion.

I'm sure that there are those out there that show people having no problem whatsoever with this sort of system, but Bono would never display those articles because then he might have to deal with contradictory information that would lead him into cognitive dissonance.  Much simpler just to ignore the existence of such information.

find me an article or a politician or a doctor or anyone that says waiting for over 70 hours for medicine is a good thing.

[Bono]

I'm sure that there are those out there that show people having no problem whatsoever with this sort of system, but Bono would never display those articles because then he might have to deal with contradictory information that would lead him into cognitive dissonance.  Much simpler just to ignore the existence of such information.

Care to substanciate that? Or is this just more in the Gabu tradition of thinly veiled ad hominem attacks?

[Democratic Hawk]

Granted, the NHS is not perfect, but I ain't gonna knock it. In fact, given my own and my family's experiences in the NHS, I have nothing but praise for it

In the grand scheme of things, the good the NHS does far outweighs the bad

Dave

[Serenity Now]

Granted, the NHS is not perfect, but I ain't gonna knock it. In fact, given my own and my family's experiences in the NHS, I have nothing but praise for it

In the grand scheme of things, the good the NHS does far outweighs the bad

Dave

Same, except I'm not called Dave

[Joe Republic]

We're resorting to anecdotal evidence now?

[Bono]

We're resorting to anecdotal evidence now?

If the shoe fits...
Since I don't intend for this to "prove" anything, I don't see what your point is. It is intended as an example, not as absolute evidence.

[Joe Republic]

We're resorting to anecdotal evidence now?

If the shoe fits...
Since I don't intend for this to "prove" anything, I don't see what your point is. It is intended as an example, not as absolute evidence.

That's fine.  I'm actually more-or-less on your side in this debate, so I have little to argue with you about.  I just get annoyed by anecdotes being used to bolster an argument.

If I wanted to, I could probably find a bunch of cases of British people who were satisfied with the medical service they received, and use their examples to counter yours, but admittedly it's far easier to find the complainers (as always).

[memphis]

You're trying to show a worst-case scenario for socialized medicine. Compare with the states where worst-case is lots of people can't get care at all. Which is worse?

[Gabu]

If I wanted to, I could probably find a bunch of cases of British people who were satisfied with the medical service they received, and use their examples to counter yours, but admittedly it's far easier to find the complainers (as always).

I can give you a personal anecdote regarding an encounter with socialized medicine.  A while ago my mom was diagnosed with an aortic aneurysm (which means, in a nutshell, that a section of her aorta, the blood vessel from the heart to the legs, was weak, and was ballooning outwards as a result).  She was put on watch and had an ultrasound every few months to track it.

About six months ago, she felt some pain in her abdomen and got very worried that it was related to the aneurysm.  She went to the clinic and they recommended she go to the emergency ward of the hospital.  She did so, and they ran an emergency ultrasound that found that the aneurysm had ballooned considerably more than it had the last ultrasound and was past the width threshhold for needing surgery.  As a result, they kept her overnight and put her on the list of those needing emergency surgery since a burst aortic aneurysm can easily be fatal.  She received her emergency surgery shortly thereafter, well before any complications arose, and it was a complete success.  They discovered that the pain was caused by a blood clot in the blood vessel, which they also removed without problems.

She is now fine despite the fact that we have evil, evil socialized medicine, and an ultrasound she received only a week ago found no problems whatsoever and that her aorta and internal organs were in tip-top shape.

I can only imagine the bill she might have received if this surgery had been performed in America.

Also, there was only one portion of the hospital stay she disliked immensely, and that was the food - which was, ironically, the only portion provided by a private company.

Care to substanciate that? Or is this just more in the Gabu tradition of thinly veiled ad hominem attacks?

Thinly veiled?  I don't believe there was any veil at all.   The fact that you have never once posted an instance of someone having a positive experience with something socialized does, however, substantiate what I said, given that it's plain to see that such instances exist if you care to find them, and I would imagine that you could find a lot of instances of people in the States having bad experiences with their own health care, too.

Of course, none of this proves anything one way or another about socialized medicine, which is why I find it silly how many anecdotal cases you feel the need to post.  Of course you'll find more bad than good in the news.  That's the sort of news that sells.  "Everything is fine" is not a winning headline.

[bullmoose88]

I can only imagine the bill she might have received if this surgery had been performed in America.

Ask her about her taxes...that should give you a decent idea.

[Gabu]

Ask her about her taxes...that should give you a decent idea.

From the raw data, one might expect her to be taxed a whole lot more than if she lived in America, given that tax intake is about 37% of the GDP in Canada compared with 27% in America, but if you look at the tax rates, it's more the fact that the richest segment of population is taxed more in Canada than in America that makes up a good chunk of the difference.  Working class citizens don't pay all that much more in taxes in Canada.

As with a lot of other things, America is clearly preferable in terms of health care if you're rich, but not so much if you're not.

[bullmoose88]

Ask her about her taxes...that should give you a decent idea.

From the raw data, one might expect her to be taxed a whole lot more than if she lived in America, given that tax intake is about 37% of the GDP in Canada compared with 27% in America, but if you look at the tax rates, it's more the fact that the richest segment of population is taxed more in Canada than in America that makes up a good chunk of the difference.  Working class citizens don't pay all that much more in taxes in Canada.

As with a lot of other things, America is clearly preferable in terms of health care if you're rich, but not so much if you're not.

As for the first part..you can't just compare taxation as a share of GDP without adjusting for a couple things...oh say America's huge defense budget...

what we really need to get at here is to isolate, on average, the share the average canadian pays in taxes for his/her health services and what the average american pays for private insurance. We could then compare the health options etc...but I'm not Bono...I'm not going to disregard public health care just because its government financed...I frankly just want the best of the two programs (once you factor in cost, wait, quality, choice of doctor etc...)

[opebo]

The obvious refutation of this nonsense is this - under the American or capitalist system, poors recieve no health care at all.

[MaC]

The obvious refutation of this nonsense is this - under the American or capitalist system, poors recieve no health care at all.

it is, indeed obvious! 

Now why don't you come back with some facts and figures and make an argument, rahter than a soundbyte.

[Sam Spade]

Ask her about her taxes...that should give you a decent idea.

From the raw data, one might expect her to be taxed a whole lot more than if she lived in America, given that tax intake is about 37% of the GDP in Canada compared with 27% in America, but if you look at the tax rates, it's more the fact that the richest segment of population is taxed more in Canada than in America that makes up a good chunk of the difference.  Working class citizens don't pay all that much more in taxes in Canada.

As with a lot of other things, America is clearly preferable in terms of health care if you're rich, but not so much if you're not.

As for the first part..you can't just compare taxation as a share of GDP without adjusting for a couple things...oh say America's huge defense budget...

what we really need to get at here is to isolate, on average, the share the average canadian pays in taxes for his/her health services and what the average american pays for private insurance. We could then compare the health options etc...but I'm not Bono...I'm not going to disregard public health care just because its government financed...I frankly just want the best of the two programs (once you factor in cost, wait, quality, choice of doctor etc...)

^^^^^^^^^^^^^

This is, of course the correct way of looking at this issue.  I applaud your rationale.

[Speed of Sound]

We're resorting to anecdotal evidence now?

They have other evidence to work off of?

[GOP = Terrorists]

[MaC]

yes Progress, the United States overregulates medicine, thus causing it to be more expensive.

[GOP = Terrorists]

yes Progress, the United States overregulates medicine, thus causing it to be more expensive.

So you believe the US has more government involvement in medicine than the countries I compared it to above?

[MaC]

yes Progress, the United States overregulates medicine, thus causing it to be more expensive.

So you believe the US has more government involvement in medicine than the countries I compared it to above?

More in regulations.  Other countries have systems that are socialist in nature, but not necessarily with the type or restrictions the US system has.