WHO would like to study Covid 19 lab leak theories, PRC still won't let them

[dead0man]

WHO

Possibility of introduction of SARS-CoV-2 to the human population through a laboratory incident

The SAGO recognizes the work of the joint WHO-China team and the findings presented in their report.  During the discussions of the SAGO, the SAGO has agreed, apart from three objections (see footnote)5, that it remains important to consider all reasonable scientific data that is available either through Scientific Advisory Group for the Origins of Novel Pathogens (SAGO) Preliminary Report published or other official sources to evaluate the possibility of the introduction of SARS-CoV-2 into the human population through a laboratory incident.

To support biosafety and biosecurity investigations into the introduction of SARS-CoV-2 into the human population through a laboratory incident; the SAGO notes that there would need to be access to and review of the evidence of all laboratory activities (both in vitro and in vivo studies) with coronaviruses including SARS-CoV-2-related viruses or close ancestors and the laboratory’s approach to implementation and improvement of laboratory biosafety and biosecurity. As it is not common practice to publish the institutional implementation of biosafety and biosecurity practices of individual laboratories in peer-reviewed scientific journals, additional information will need to be obtained and reviewed to make conclusive recommendations.

It seems to me, that if I was a govt and thought my people innocent, I would want the international scientists to prove that so the rest of the world would shut up about it.

On the other hand, if I knew my people were guilty (ya know, 'cause I told them to do it), then I would certainly stonewall international scientists from finding that truth.  Especially if I regularly force/bribe scientists to lie for me.



To be clear, I don't believe the PRC "leaked" Covid 19 on purpose*, I think they were funking around with sh**t they shouldn't have been funking around with and didn't have good safety surrounding the funking around.







*they certainly could have on purpose, there just isn't as much evidence for that as there is for the lab leak theory.  The Red Chinese have done some amazingly stupid things over the years, if true, this might not even be the dumbest one.

[Cashew]

WHO

Possibility of introduction of SARS-CoV-2 to the human population through a laboratory incident

The SAGO recognizes the work of the joint WHO-China team and the findings presented in their report.  During the discussions of the SAGO, the SAGO has agreed, apart from three objections (see footnote)5, that it remains important to consider all reasonable scientific data that is available either through Scientific Advisory Group for the Origins of Novel Pathogens (SAGO) Preliminary Report published or other official sources to evaluate the possibility of the introduction of SARS-CoV-2 into the human population through a laboratory incident.

To support biosafety and biosecurity investigations into the introduction of SARS-CoV-2 into the human population through a laboratory incident; the SAGO notes that there would need to be access to and review of the evidence of all laboratory activities (both in vitro and in vivo studies) with coronaviruses including SARS-CoV-2-related viruses or close ancestors and the laboratory’s approach to implementation and improvement of laboratory biosafety and biosecurity. As it is not common practice to publish the institutional implementation of biosafety and biosecurity practices of individual laboratories in peer-reviewed scientific journals, additional information will need to be obtained and reviewed to make conclusive recommendations.

It seems to me, that if I was a govt and thought my people innocent, I would want the international scientists to prove that so the rest of the world would shut up about it.

On the other hand, if I knew my people were guilty (ya know, 'cause I told them to do it), then I would certainly stonewall international scientists from finding that truth.  Especially if I regularly force/bribe scientists to lie for me.



To be clear, I don't believe the PRC "leaked" Covid 19 on purpose*, I think they were funking around with sh**t they shouldn't have been funking around with and didn't have good safety surrounding the funking around.







*they certainly could have on purpose, there just isn't as much evidence for that as there is for the lab leak theory.  The Red Chinese have done some amazingly stupid things over the years, if true, this might not even be the dumbest one.

Perhaps an authoritharian government simply does not want to set a precedent encouraging more international inspections and transparency? Not to mention if you cave and allow inspectors to prove your innocence, then you one time you are guilty of something refusing to allow an investigation will stick out like a sore thumb and practically confirm your guilt. Better to refuse to normalize anything that leads to conceding even a small amount of authority and credibility to international institutions regardless of the short term benefits and focus on maintaining sovereignty as well as keeping the veil of ambiguity as wide as possible

[CumbrianLefty]

But that also has a downside, and showing it *wasn't* lab related would have an upside.

[dead0man]

Perhaps an authoritharian government simply does not want to set a precedent encouraging more international inspections and transparency? Not to mention if you cave and allow inspectors to prove your innocence, then you one time you are guilty of something refusing to allow an investigation will stick out like a sore thumb and practically confirm your guilt. Better to refuse to normalize anything that leads to conceding even a small amount of authority and credibility to international institutions regardless of the short term benefits and focus on maintaining sovereignty as well as keeping the veil of ambiguity as wide as possible

and it forces the rest of the world (other than leaders/benefiters of authoritarian govts) to just assume they did it (and did it on purpose).  The PRC seems to love bad PR.

[SnowLabrador]

I've got no love for the CCP, but there's no reason to think it was a lab leak. It seems far more likely that it's an ordinary zoonotic virus, which will keep happening more and more frequently. Moreover, people who push the lab leak conspiracy theory are just trying to gin up war with China. And again, regardless of the Chinese government's human rights abuses, a war with China would be a horrible idea.

[DaleCooper]

I've got no love for the CCP, but there's no reason to think it was a lab leak. It seems far more likely that it's an ordinary zoonotic virus, which will keep happening more and more frequently. Moreover, people who push the lab leak conspiracy theory are just trying to gin up war with China. And again, regardless of the Chinese government's human rights abuses, a war with China would be a horrible idea.

There's plenty of reason to think it was a lab leak, and I say this as someone who leans towards it coming from the market.

[Horus]

I've got no love for the CCP, but there's no reason to think it was a lab leak. It seems far more likely that it's an ordinary zoonotic virus, which will keep happening more and more frequently. Moreover, people who push the lab leak conspiracy theory are just trying to gin up war with China. And again, regardless of the Chinese government's human rights abuses, a war with China would be a horrible idea.

Please. You have literally said you want to move to China several times.

[Cashew]

Perhaps an authoritharian government simply does not want to set a precedent encouraging more international inspections and transparency? Not to mention if you cave and allow inspectors to prove your innocence, then you one time you are guilty of something refusing to allow an investigation will stick out like a sore thumb and practically confirm your guilt. Better to refuse to normalize anything that leads to conceding even a small amount of authority and credibility to international institutions regardless of the short term benefits and focus on maintaining sovereignty as well as keeping the veil of ambiguity as wide as possible

and it forces the rest of the world (other than leaders/benefiters of authoritarian govts) to just assume they did it (and did it on purpose).  The PRC seems to love bad PR.

While weilding "if you've got nothing to hide logic" against a government might be fine for libertarians, and I can understand weilding it as a rhetorical cudgel agaisnt the Chinese government, it would an wise not to push too far unless you want to set a precedent that the U.S. should be subject to inspections to clear the government of any suspicion raised by conspiracy theorists as well. And assuming you are not violating international treaties in secret, having the option to do so at a later point in time free of scrutiny is still "better" than having to do so in the open in front of inspectors, so why give away such a valuable card almost for free, especially if your geopolitical rivals will not do the same and you are nowhere near as desperate as Iran?

[dead0man]

Perhaps an authoritharian government simply does not want to set a precedent encouraging more international inspections and transparency? Not to mention if you cave and allow inspectors to prove your innocence, then you one time you are guilty of something refusing to allow an investigation will stick out like a sore thumb and practically confirm your guilt. Better to refuse to normalize anything that leads to conceding even a small amount of authority and credibility to international institutions regardless of the short term benefits and focus on maintaining sovereignty as well as keeping the veil of ambiguity as wide as possible

and it forces the rest of the world (other than leaders/benefiters of authoritarian govts) to just assume they did it (and did it on purpose).  The PRC seems to love bad PR.

While weilding "if you've got nothing to hide logic" against a government might be fine for libertarians, and I can understand weilding it as a rhetorical cudgel agaisnt the Chinese government, it would an wise not to push too far unless you want to set a precedent that the U.S. should be subject to inspections to clear the government of any suspicion raised by conspiracy theorists as well.

the WHO are raising conspiracy theories?

And yes, authoritarian sh**t holes don't want to let international inspectors in for the various reasons you mentioned, and we should make a big deal out of it every time they don't.  Triply so if there is a global pandemic involved.

[It’s so Joever]

While I have certainly been on the side of “it’s likelier from nature”, China still should allow an investigation. From a non-geopolitical standpoint indeitfying the origins of this virus can give us foresight into how future pandemics could develop and what we can do to prevent them early on.