AOC criticizes Democrats for railing against “Latinx”

[Figueira]

Oh, I was summoned here. But I'm tired of arguing the same over and over again. I'm just gonna say that polling in South American countries has shown that among the minority that uses lenguaje inclusivo latinx is preferred over latine for reasons that I have already explained (because, for all you people here talk about the sancticity of Spanish language none of you seem to understand how it actually works)


For the rest of the thread, I will just refer to this statement found on my hometown:

First of all, thank you for providing this perspective on here; it is important for people on Atlas to realize that Latinx is more than just an Anglo thing even if we might not like it (and even if it's not the most politically wise word for outsiders to use in the US).

Two questions about that poll though: who are the respondents (what country) and isn't it just about writing? I would think stuff like Latin@ would be impossible to say out loud, and Latinx would be awkward too especially in the plural. Now that I think of it, how do you pronounce Latinx in Spanish? Is Latinxs pronounced any differently?

[Figueira]

One thing I don’t get about Latinx is why do people say it’s about trans rights? I thought the point of Latinx was to not have “Latino” as the default in cases where the gender is unclear or there is a mixed group of people, which is considered sexist since having the “o” ending as the default implies male superiority over females

If you ignore non-binary people, but you want to promote equality between men and women, you could just say "Latinos and Latinas" or something like that. The only advantage "Latinxs" has over that, other than being shorter, is that it includes non-binary people.

And as I've said before, this is great, but it's not really fair that only one ethnic group in the US has to change its name to accommodate non-binary people.

[kaoras]

Oh, I was summoned here. But I'm tired of arguing the same over and over again. I'm just gonna say that polling in South American countries has shown that among the minority that uses lenguaje inclusivo latinx is preferred over latine for reasons that I have already explained (because, for all you people here talk about the sancticity of Spanish language none of you seem to understand how it actually works)


For the rest of the thread, I will just refer to this statement found on my hometown:

First of all, thank you for providing this perspective on here; it is important for people on Atlas to realize that Latinx is more than just an Anglo thing even if we might not like it (and even if it's not the most politically wise word for outsiders to use in the US).

Two questions about that poll though: who are the respondents (what country) and isn't it just about writing? I would think stuff like Latin@ would be impossible to say out loud, and Latinx would be awkward too especially in the plural. Now that I think of it, how do you pronounce Latinx in Spanish? Is Latinxs pronounced any differently?

That poll is from Argentina, I shared the link on a thread a while ago, I will look for it later.

The reason the poll is about writing is because Latinx is for writing. You don't "say" Latinx o latin@ , you read it in your mind as whatever you want but you still have the visual cue that is inclusive. When I read latinx on Atlas I read it as Latino, that is also the reason why is so popular compared with latine, latine disrupts your reading while Latinx does not.

This is why I always insist that Latinx came from Spanish speakers. Is something that makes perfect sense for written Spanish which has plenty of abbreviations impossible to pronounce like these

But Latinx as an inclusive form doesn't make any sense whatsoever in English (and yes, saying l-ah-tinks out loud is dumb)

For spoken Spanish some people do use latine but is more common to say todas y todos and so on (and in fact that form is VERY widespread in formal settings in Chile)

[Okay, maybe Mike Johnson is a competent parliamentarian.]

Oh, I was summoned here. But I'm tired of arguing the same over and over again. I'm just gonna say that polling in South American countries has shown that among the minority that uses lenguaje inclusivo latinx is preferred over latine for reasons that I have already explained (because, for all you people here talk about the sancticity of Spanish language none of you seem to understand how it actually works)


For the rest of the thread, I will just refer to this statement found on my hometown:

First of all, thank you for providing this perspective on here; it is important for people on Atlas to realize that Latinx is more than just an Anglo thing even if we might not like it (and even if it's not the most politically wise word for outsiders to use in the US).

Two questions about that poll though: who are the respondents (what country) and isn't it just about writing? I would think stuff like Latin@ would be impossible to say out loud, and Latinx would be awkward too especially in the plural. Now that I think of it, how do you pronounce Latinx in Spanish? Is Latinxs pronounced any differently?

That poll is from Argentina, I shared the link on a thread a while ago, I will look for it later.

The reason the poll is about writing is because Latinx is for writing. You don't "say" Latinx o latin@ , you read it in your mind as whatever you want but you still have the visual cue that is inclusive. When I read latinx on Atlas I read it as Latino, that is also the reason why is so popular compared with latine, latine disrupts your reading while Latinx does not.

This is why I always insist that Latinx came from Spanish speakers. Is something that makes perfect sense for written Spanish which has plenty of abbreviations impossible to pronounce like these

But Latinx as an inclusive form doesn't make any sense whatsoever in English (and yes, saying l-ah-tinks out loud is dumb)

For spoken Spanish some people do use latine but is more common to say todas y todos and so on (and in fact that form is VERY widespread in formal settings in Chile)

This is actually a really helpful breakdown; thanks.

[Figueira]

Oh, I was summoned here. But I'm tired of arguing the same over and over again. I'm just gonna say that polling in South American countries has shown that among the minority that uses lenguaje inclusivo latinx is preferred over latine for reasons that I have already explained (because, for all you people here talk about the sancticity of Spanish language none of you seem to understand how it actually works)


For the rest of the thread, I will just refer to this statement found on my hometown:

First of all, thank you for providing this perspective on here; it is important for people on Atlas to realize that Latinx is more than just an Anglo thing even if we might not like it (and even if it's not the most politically wise word for outsiders to use in the US).

Two questions about that poll though: who are the respondents (what country) and isn't it just about writing? I would think stuff like Latin@ would be impossible to say out loud, and Latinx would be awkward too especially in the plural. Now that I think of it, how do you pronounce Latinx in Spanish? Is Latinxs pronounced any differently?

That poll is from Argentina, I shared the link on a thread a while ago, I will look for it later.

The reason the poll is about writing is because Latinx is for writing. You don't "say" Latinx o latin@ , you read it in your mind as whatever you want but you still have the visual cue that is inclusive. When I read latinx on Atlas I read it as Latino, that is also the reason why is so popular compared with latine, latine disrupts your reading while Latinx does not.

This is why I always insist that Latinx came from Spanish speakers. Is something that makes perfect sense for written Spanish which has plenty of abbreviations impossible to pronounce like these

But Latinx as an inclusive form doesn't make any sense whatsoever in English (and yes, saying l-ah-tinks out loud is dumb)

For spoken Spanish some people do use latine but is more common to say todas y todos and so on (and in fact that form is VERY widespread in formal settings in Chile)

OK, that's an important distinction. In the US, "Latinx" is regularly used in both speech and writing, usually pronounced something like "la-tin-EKS". If someone in Chile or Argentina was reading a text out loud that had the word Latinx in it, how would they pronounce it?

Overall though, really interesting stuff.

[kaoras]

Ehm, it would depend on the context. Latinx (and all the unpronunciable abbreviations btw) is something only used in written informal settings (and written statements from college student organizations). If you were in college it would probably be read as latine, on other context most people would either just read "latino" or say latinos y latinas.

The "formal" lenguaje inclusivo is always todos y todas + trying to use gender neutral words (saying estudiantes instead of alumnos or alumnos y alumnas, ser humano instead of hombre for refering to mankind and so on)

[Badger]

I like or love what AOC does about 80% of the time. This is one of those 20% cringe moments.

[jamestroll]

Some of the hottest white guys .. for me are usually

1) from Argentina, Chile, .. latin america in general

or

2) jewish.

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

Oh, I was summoned here. But I'm tired of arguing the same over and over again. I'm just gonna say that polling in South American countries has shown that among the minority that uses lenguaje inclusivo latinx is preferred over latine for reasons that I have already explained (because, for all you people here talk about the sancticity of Spanish language none of you seem to understand how it actually works)


For the rest of the thread, I will just refer to this statement found on my hometown:

So here's the thing that I think gets missed in this comparison:

The vast majority of people in the US (including most Latinos) do not pay attention to what people in Latin American countries do on this sort of thing. They only have the context of the own country to base this off. And in the US, the fact is almost everyone who says "Latinx" is either an extremely obnoxious type of hyperwoke individual or some sort of corporate HR drone. Even people who actually are Latino who use almost always fall into those categories as well (usually the former.)

If some average run of the mill Hispanic hears the word they'll most likely think something along the lines of "LOL that's stupid, silly gringos", they're not going to go ahead and then research if it's actually not unheard of in Chile. If they then tell their white neighbor that it's dumb said white neighbor will probably just adhere to what they said and not use it either, (FYI this is actually what spawned my opposition to it originally, actual Latino people talking about how it's stupid and they didn't want anyone using it.) So as a result most Latinos and most "normal" white people don't use it, and it appears that it something exclusively used by said obnoxious hyperwoke types and pandering corporate marketers. And the vast majority of these people will be Anglo whites.

That dynamic doesn't exist in South America where most people using it obviously will be Spanish speaking, so it doesn't come across appearing as some sort of white Anglo imposition, even if the reason for that perception in the US is misleading. Hence there's not the similar backlash.

But since that is the perception in the US, the result is that everyone remotely conservative hates it, a solid chunk of Latinos hate it and almost none use it, and most "normie" center-left people hate it too, or at least think it's silly. Like on basically any mainstream progressive subreddit (not talking about the leftist ones that are dominated by tankie edgelords) it gets dumped on and mocked. I saw a thread about this very topic on r/politics, and it was overwhelmingly negative in reaction, and that's usually a pro-AOC sub. I even gave an anecdote about one of my music Facebook groups here, and that's definitely no conservative bastion either, now one thing I did note is that the average age there is much older than the group more likely to use it (like I'm probably around the average age honestly), but that's still Millennials mostly, not actual old people. The only real English speaking area where it gets commonly used is Twitter and even there any mentions of it by a prominent blue check or corporate account still get ratioed to high hell. It's not just this forum. And it's not because of conservative brigading or Russian troll farms or whatever either, often the people dumping on it is a flood of blue wave/Ukrainian flag emojis, a bunch with pictures of Democratic politicians as avatars.

Again this dynamic may not exist in South America for the reasons listed, but that's exactly why it's not catching on in the US and keeps seeing such backlash.

EDIT Addendum: It's also worth noting that American users of it often use it in a very performative manner, like saying things like "Latinx man"/"Latinx woman" when even the point of a gender neutral word is meaningless, which I think alienates people as well and kind of demolishes the argument it's only about covering non-binary people or mixed groups or whatever.

[kaoras]

Oh, I was summoned here. But I'm tired of arguing the same over and over again. I'm just gonna say that polling in South American countries has shown that among the minority that uses lenguaje inclusivo latinx is preferred over latine for reasons that I have already explained (because, for all you people here talk about the sancticity of Spanish language none of you seem to understand how it actually works)


For the rest of the thread, I will just refer to this statement found on my hometown:

So here's the thing that I think gets missed in this comparison:

The vast majority of people in the US (including most Latinos) do not pay attention to what people in Latin American countries do on this sort of thing. They only have the context of the own country to base this off. And in the US, the fact is almost everyone who says "Latinx" is either an extremely obnoxious type of hyperwoke individual or some sort of corporate HR drone. Even people who actually are Latino who use almost always fall into those categories as well (usually the former.)

If some average run of the mill Hispanic hears the word they'll most likely think something along the lines of "LOL that's stupid, silly gringos", they're not going to go ahead and then research if it's actually not unheard of in Chile. If they then tell their white neighbor that it's dumb said white neighbor will probably just adhere to what they said and not use it either, (FYI this is actually what spawned my opposition to it originally, actual Latino people talking about how it's stupid and they didn't want anyone using it.) So as a result most Latinos and most "normal" white people don't use it, and it appears that it something exclusively used by said obnoxious hyperwoke types and pandering corporate marketers. And the vast majority of these people will be Anglo whites.

That dynamic doesn't exist in South America where most people using it obviously will be Spanish speaking, so it doesn't come across appearing as some sort of white Anglo imposition, even if the reason for that perception in the US is misleading. Hence there's not the similar backlash.

But since that is the perception in the US, the result is that everyone remotely conservative hates it, a solid chunk of Latinos hate it and almost none use it, and most "normie" center-left people hate it too, or at least think it's silly. Like on basically any mainstream progressive subreddit (not talking about the leftist ones that are dominated by tankie edgelords) it gets dumped on and mocked. I saw a thread about this very topic on r/politics, and it was overwhelmingly negative in reaction, and that's usually a pro-AOC sub. I even gave an anecdote about one of my music Facebook groups here, and that's definitely no conservative bastion either, now one thing I did note is that the average age there is much older than the group more likely to use it (like I'm probably around the average age honestly), but that's still Millennials mostly, not actual old people. The only real English speaking area where it gets commonly used is Twitter and even there any mentions of it by a prominent blue check or corporate account still get ratioed to high hell. It's not just this forum. And it's not because of conservative brigading or Russian troll farms or whatever either, often the people dumping on it is a flood of blue wave/Ukrainian flag emojis, a bunch with pictures of Democratic politicians as avatars.

Again this dynamic may not exist in South America for the reasons listed, but that's exactly why it's not catching on in the US and keeps seeing such backlash.

EDIT Addendum: It's also worth noting that American users of it often use it in a very performative manner, like saying things like "Latinx man"/"Latinx woman" when even the point of a gender neutral word is meaningless, which I think alienates people as well and kind of demolishes the argument it's only about covering non-binary people or mixed groups or whatever.

Well, yes, I don't really have a problem with you since you actually have acknolewdged the difference in dynamics between the US and Latin America. And I find saying "lahtinks" dumb and I buy that it doesn't help democrats with latinos (though I don't really care that much about that tbh)

But is really tiresome reading that I should be offended by the word or that is an attack on the Spanish language or is a racial slur and all the bullsh**t that Atlas likes to say. Like, I'm not gonna get mad at half of my IG feed just because some gringos think that latinx is the second coming of the antichrist.

[T'Chenka]

I find saying "lahtinks" dumb and I buy that it doesn't help democrats with latinos (though I don't really care that much about that tbh)

I always assume it's "lateenex" (rhymes with "kleenex").

[Figueira]

EDIT Addendum: It's also worth noting that American users of it often use it in a very performative manner, like saying things like "Latinx man"/"Latinx woman" when even the point of a gender neutral word is meaningless, which I think alienates people as well and kind of demolishes the argument it's only about covering non-binary people or mixed groups or whatever.

My favorite is "My Latinx brothers and sisters".