Lincoln v Wilson: who would you vote for?

[MaC]

and explain why

[True Federalist (진정한 연방 주의자)]

I consider Lincon to be one of our best and Wilson to be one of our worst Presidents.  If T. Woodrow Wilson were to run against Lou C. Fer, I'd likely voter for Mr. Fer as the lesser of two evils.

[Dr. Cynic]

Wilson was extremely hard headed, and couldn't work with the Senate on the League. Lincoln, by all accounts was more interested in a peaceful means of bringing the South back in slowly, so as not to anger the radicals or the Democrats.

[Undisguised Sockpuppet]

Lincoln

[??????????]

Wilson was less of a war criminal. So I'd vote for him.

[Filuwaúrdjan]

Wilson through his policy during WWI paved the way to WWII.

I'm not a fan of Wilson (at all), but that's unfair.

[bullmoose88]

Lincoln, by all accounts was more interested in a peaceful means of bringing the South back in slowly, so as not to anger the radicals or the Democrats.

Lincoln.

[True Federalist (진정한 연방 주의자)]

Wilson through his policy during WWI paved the way to WWII.

I'm not a fan of Wilson (at all), but that's unfair.

Wilson may have paved with good intentions, but it's very fair.  If the U.S. had stayed truly neutral and refused not only to fight in the European War but to sell munitions to the combatants.

[Stranger in a strange land]

Lincoln was truly a great leader. Not perfect, but great.

I always disliked Wilson, cheifly because he was a nasty racist. Nonetheless, Wilson was considered great by most people until recently, when Americans decided that they don't like messianic presidents who go on crusade to spread democracy to other countries whether they want it or not.

[??????????]

Lincoln was truly a great leader. Not perfect, but great.

Yes, he certainly was great. Locking up your political opponents for years with no trial, silencing the media through brute force, suspending Habeaus Corpus. Shall I go on?

[Tetro Kornbluth]

Lincoln was truly a great leader. Not perfect, but great.

Yes, he certainly was great. Locking up your political opponents for years with no trial, silencing the media through brute force, suspending Habeaus Corpus. Shall I go on?

Then again there is the Espionage Act.

For that reason I would never vote for Wilson.

[Stranger in a strange land]

Lincoln was truly a great leader. Not perfect, but great.

Yes, he certainly was great. Locking up your political opponents for years with no trial, silencing the media through brute force, suspending Habeaus Corpus. Shall I go on?

1860s America was a rough place. Frontier justice still prevailed in many locations. John Wilkes Booth was not the first to attempt to assassinate Lincoln. The Union and the Confederacy both lost men in staggering numbers. And Jeff Davis also  suspended Habeas Corpus and imposed martial law.

[MaC]

Lincoln was truly a great leader. Not perfect, but great.

Yes, he certainly was great. Locking up your political opponents for years with no trial, silencing the media through brute force, suspending Habeaus Corpus. Shall I go on?

And this brings me to my recent conclusion.  I used to have Wilson and Lincoln tied as second worst president.  But, Wilson did plenty of horrible and unconstitutional things that became long-term such as passing the Federal Reserve Act.
Lincoln did have many unconstitutional acts, but habeus corpus suspension happened when congress was not in session and the recess gave Lincoln Article I powers to do such a thing.  Not that Lincoln was my any means a good president in my book, but Wilson was worse.

[Tetro Kornbluth]

Lincoln's actions could be justified as the circumstances were a Civil war where the war zone was within a few hundred of miles of many major American cities. This is somewhat different to Wilson (and to Bush for that matter)

In saying all I've said, Wilson's first term was one of the best by any sitting president. And his presidency was noted for progressive legislation, more Anti-Trust laws (though I'm always dubious of many Anti-Trusts as alot of them tend to hurt small business more than big corporations.), women's suffrage and establishment of the federal reserve (Which Is Clearly more desirable than having JP Morgan finance the US treasury), he also vetoed the Volstead Act.

While Lincoln's program was traditional pro-big goverment pro-business growth and somewhat mercantilist, in the tradition of Henry Clay and the Whig Party. Which is against everything I believe.

So, on balance I'd say Wilson was the lesser of two evils.

[True Federalist (진정한 연방 주의자)]

Lincoln's actions could be justified as the circumstances were a Civil war where the war zone was within a few hundred of miles of many major American cities. This is somewhat different to Wilson (and to Bush for that matter)

In saying all I've said, Wilson's first term was one of the best by any sitting president. And his presidency was noted for ... women's suffrage.

Saying Wilson was responsible for women's suffrage is like saying Pope Leo X was responsible for the Protestant Reformation.  It may have happened under his watch, but he certainly wasn't in favor of it.  However, unlike Leo it didn't directly affect him, so he was able bend to the political reality.

[Nym90]

Lincoln was truly a great leader. Not perfect, but great.

Yes, he certainly was great. Locking up your political opponents for years with no trial, silencing the media through brute force, suspending Habeaus Corpus. Shall I go on?

Hmm, kind of sounds like Bush. I guess it must be a Republican tradition.

In all seriousness though, desperate times do call for desperate measures (as current supporters of such actions of course also argue). I think it's important to keep the focus on the rightness or wrongness of the overall cause and the implications of what defeat and failure would mean before assessing the rightness or wrongness of specific actions taken to achieve the goal. Obviously those who opposed Lincoln's overall goal are going to find tremendous fault with the actions taken (and rightfully so in some circumstances).

[Sam Spade]

Lincoln, barely.

For people who understand what habeas corpus means, there is a big difference between Hamdan and Ex parte Milligan.  I suggest someone actually read the two cases.