Christians: do I deserve eternal suffering?

[Ferguson97]

I am not a Christian and I don't believe in the existence of God.

According to the Bible, this means I am going to Hell.

My question for Christians here is, do you think that I and other non-believers deserve to suffer for eternity because I do not believe in God? If so, why is eternal torment a sufficient punishment for not accepting the existence of God?

[DaleCooper]

I doubt it was meant to be taken so literally, and in fact Hell is pretty inconsistent throughout the New Testament (it's not in the Old Testament at all). The biblical depiction of Hell conveys the simple, easy-to-understand message that the wicked get what's coming to them a hundredfold in the end. It's a promise to the living that injustice in this world will be remedied in the next.

However, the answer to your question is that everyone deserves Hell, but a select few dodge that bullet by believing in Jesus Christ in a certain way. Christian opinions on salvation vary but you're clearly looking for the Evangelical response and that's generally what it's going to be.

[brucejoel99]

I am not a Christian and I don't believe in the existence of God.

According to the Bible, this means I am going to Hell.

I'm also not a Christian, but that's a strict constructionist view of John 14:6. It doesn't necessarily mean that all non-Christians are going to Hell so much as it means that nobody's getting into Heaven unless they have Jesus' approval, & that's such an important distinction that it's why the extra Ecclesiam nulla salus (no salvation outside the Church) doctrine defines the Church as all people saved by Christ, both those visibly saved & those not visibly saved; not all Christians, or even some Christians, but a visible subset of people who profess to be Christian & an invisible subset of people who don't so profess, & whether said subsets are all Christian or all non-Christian is ultimately up to Jesus (see: Matthew 25:31-46).

And if Christianity is true, people who unrepentantly kill in the name of God's will are surely going to Hell for that, so it only makes sense that those who love as themselves are seen as following God's Law of Love &, thus, Satan won't gain them.

[Georg Ebner]

To "come into hell/heaven" is an a-gnostical misBelief. If You are not experiencing HIM, You are already hic et nunc in hell. Heaven is no thing else than the fruitio DEI. After death You will get, whatever You want (a la "social justice", "environmental protection" aso.), but what is the heaven for You subjectively, is objectively the hell.

[John Dule]

To "come into hell/heaven" is an a-gnostical misBelief. If You are not experiencing HIM, You are already hic et nunc in hell. Heaven is no thing else than the fruitio DEI. After death You will get, whatever You want (a la "social justice", "environmental protection" aso.), but what is the heaven for You subjectively, is objectively the hell.

LOL, this is fantastic. So I get everything I want without ever having to capitulate to a higher power?

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

I am not a Christian and I don't believe in the existence of God.

According to the Bible, this means I am going to Hell.

My question for Christians here is, do you think that I and other non-believers deserve to suffer for eternity because I do not believe in God? If so, why is eternal torment a sufficient punishment for not accepting the existence of God?

Where does the Bible explicitly state this?

[Georg Ebner]

To "come into hell/heaven" is an a-gnostical misBelief. If You are not experiencing HIM, You are already hic et nunc in hell. Heaven is no thing else than the fruitio DEI. After death You will get, whatever You want (a la "social justice", "environmental protection" aso.), but what is the heaven for You subjectively, is objectively the hell.

LOL, this is fantastic. So I get everything I want without ever having to capitulate to a higher power?

Yes, You have hit the JackPot! What is obvious, if You use Your eyes&ears: Modern mankind has liberated itself, hasn't it? (E.g.: Shortly genetics will be able to make You immortal...)
And on the other hand are we pious from the StoneAges-MiddleAges, who have not freed ourselves (even MARY called Herself Lk.1,38 "he doule Kyriou" = "the slave of the Master"), but are permanently plagued by our opPonent (the "divina pati" of mystics). And Christianity perfectionized this: The Latin Mass speaks of an "eternal sacrifice" and as only HE is "eternal" (our souls are only immortal), this means for us, that HE HIMself has to suffer&endure HIMself permanently (what explains John 13,31).
ARISOTLE taught, that the soul would be in the body - but in reality the body is in the soul. Because physically we are bound together in one world for some time, but mentally every side is basically already there, where it will finally be.

[John Dule]

To "come into hell/heaven" is an a-gnostical misBelief. If You are not experiencing HIM, You are already hic et nunc in hell. Heaven is no thing else than the fruitio DEI. After death You will get, whatever You want (a la "social justice", "environmental protection" aso.), but what is the heaven for You subjectively, is objectively the hell.

LOL, this is fantastic. So I get everything I want without ever having to capitulate to a higher power?

Yes, You have hit the JackPot! What is obvious, if You use Your eyes&ears: Modern mankind has liberated itself, hasn't it? (E.g.: Shortly genetics will be able to make You immortal...)
And on the other hand are we pious from the StoneAges-MiddleAges, who have not freed ourselves (even MARY called Herself Lk.1,38 "he doule Kyriou" = "the slave of the Master"), but are permanently plagued by our opPonent (the "divina pati" of mystics). And Christianity perfectionized this: The Latin Mass speaks of an "eternal sacrifice" and as only HE is "eternal" (our souls are only immortal), this means for us, that HE HIMself has to suffer&endure HIMself permanently (what explains John 13,31).
ARISOTLE taught, that the soul would be in the body - but in reality the body is in the soul. Because physically we are bound together in one world for some time, but mentally every side is basically already there, where it will finally be.

Senator, I served with Olawakandi. I knew Olawakandi. Olawakandi was a friend of mine. Senator, you're no Olawakandi.

[fhtagn]

Hell is the result of a choice to reject God.  God respects our free will. If you choose to reject him, he will not force himself upon you. 

[Continential]

To "come into hell/heaven" is an a-gnostical misBelief. If You are not experiencing HIM, You are already hic et nunc in hell. Heaven is no thing else than the fruitio DEI. After death You will get, whatever You want (a la "social justice", "environmental protection" aso.), but what is the heaven for You subjectively, is objectively the hell.

LOL, this is fantastic. So I get everything I want without ever having to capitulate to a higher power?

Yes, You have hit the JackPot! What is obvious, if You use Your eyes&ears: Modern mankind has liberated itself, hasn't it? (E.g.: Shortly genetics will be able to make You immortal...)
And on the other hand are we pious from the StoneAges-MiddleAges, who have not freed ourselves (even MARY called Herself Lk.1,38 "he doule Kyriou" = "the slave of the Master"), but are permanently plagued by our opPonent (the "divina pati" of mystics). And Christianity perfectionized this: The Latin Mass speaks of an "eternal sacrifice" and as only HE is "eternal" (our souls are only immortal), this means for us, that HE HIMself has to suffer&endure HIMself permanently (what explains John 13,31).
ARISOTLE taught, that the soul would be in the body - but in reality the body is in the soul. Because physically we are bound together in one world for some time, but mentally every side is basically already there, where it will finally be.

Senator, I served with Olawakandi. I knew Olawakandi. Olawakandi was a friend of mine. Senator, you're no Olawakandi.

Georg Ebner is an actual insane person so he is very unique.

[John Dule]

Georg Ebner is an actual insane person so he is very unique.

If he'd been born 1500 years ago people today would revere him as a saint.

[Ferguson97]

I am not a Christian and I don't believe in the existence of God.

According to the Bible, this means I am going to Hell.

My question for Christians here is, do you think that I and other non-believers deserve to suffer for eternity because I do not believe in God? If so, why is eternal torment a sufficient punishment for not accepting the existence of God?

Where does the Bible explicitly state this?

John 3:16 - “For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life."

John 3:36 - "Whoever believes in the Son has eternal life; whoever does not obey the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God remains on him."

John 14:6 - "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me."

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

I am not a Christian and I don't believe in the existence of God.

According to the Bible, this means I am going to Hell.

My question for Christians here is, do you think that I and other non-believers deserve to suffer for eternity because I do not believe in God? If so, why is eternal torment a sufficient punishment for not accepting the existence of God?

Where does the Bible explicitly state this?

John 3:16 - “For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life."

John 3:36 - "Whoever believes in the Son has eternal life; whoever does not obey the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God remains on him."

John 14:6 - "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me."

The word "hell" doesn't appear in any of those.

[Georg Ebner]

To "come into hell/heaven" is an a-gnostical misBelief. If You are not experiencing HIM, You are already hic et nunc in hell. Heaven is no thing else than the fruitio DEI. After death You will get, whatever You want (a la "social justice", "environmental protection" aso.), but what is the heaven for You subjectively, is objectively the hell.

LOL, this is fantastic. So I get everything I want without ever having to capitulate to a higher power?

Yes, You have hit the JackPot! What is obvious, if You use Your eyes&ears: Modern mankind has liberated itself, hasn't it? (E.g.: Shortly genetics will be able to make You immortal...)
And on the other hand are we pious from the StoneAges-MiddleAges, who have not freed ourselves (even MARY called Herself Lk.1,38 "he doule Kyriou" = "the slave of the Master"), but are permanently plagued by our opPonent (the "divina pati" of mystics). And Christianity perfectionized this: The Latin Mass speaks of an "eternal sacrifice" and as only HE is "eternal" (our souls are only immortal), this means for us, that HE HIMself has to suffer&endure HIMself permanently (what explains John 13,31).
ARISOTLE taught, that the soul would be in the body - but in reality the body is in the soul. Because physically we are bound together in one world for some time, but mentally every side is basically already there, where it will finally be.

Senator, I served with Olawakandi. I knew Olawakandi. Olawakandi was a friend of mine. Senator, you're no Olawakandi.

Georg Ebner is an actual insane person so he is very unique.

Strange, that You did not refute me, what should be easy then, not even tried to...

[100% pro-life no matter what]

I am not a Christian and I don't believe in the existence of God.

According to the Bible, this means I am going to Hell.

My question for Christians here is, do you think that I and other non-believers deserve to suffer for eternity because I do not believe in God? If so, why is eternal torment a sufficient punishment for not accepting the existence of God?

Where does the Bible explicitly state this?

John 3:16 - “For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life."

John 3:36 - "Whoever believes in the Son has eternal life; whoever does not obey the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God remains on him."

John 14:6 - "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me."

The word "hell" doesn't appear in any of those.

John 3:18- "Anyone who believes in him is not condemned, but anyone who does not believe is already condemned, because he has not believed in the name of the one and only Son of God." (CSB)

And, we all deserve to go to Hell.  But, Jesus died on the Cross so we don't have to if we accept Him as our personal Savior.

[Ferguson97]

And, we all deserve to go to Hell.  But, Jesus died on the Cross so we don't have to if we accept Him as our personal Savior.

Why do we all deserve Hell?

[100% pro-life no matter what]

And, we all deserve to go to Hell.  But, Jesus died on the Cross so we don't have to if we accept Him as our personal Savior.

Why do we all deserve Hell?

Because we have fallen short of the Perfection that is God.  He would be justified in sending us to Hell for committing one (seemingly) tiny sin one time in our lives.  Since the Fall in Eden, only one man- Jesus Christ- has lived a sinless life.  He bore our punishment so we wouldn't have to.

[brucejoel99]

I am not a Christian and I don't believe in the existence of God.

According to the Bible, this means I am going to Hell.

My question for Christians here is, do you think that I and other non-believers deserve to suffer for eternity because I do not believe in God? If so, why is eternal torment a sufficient punishment for not accepting the existence of God?

Where does the Bible explicitly state this?

John 3:16 - “For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life."

John 3:36 - "Whoever believes in the Son has eternal life; whoever does not obey the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God remains on him."

John 14:6 - "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me."

For somebody with such a strict interpretation of the Bible, your interpretation of what "explicitly" means is rather broad.

Insofar as John 3:16 is concerned, you should go take a look at Mark 4:15 very carefully & then realize that "man" as scriptures see us is both man & Satan, the tempter, with there being no such person as an individual in scripture other than God-in-Christ, & all others being the person, & the spirit or spirits, plural, of disobedience, à la Acts 26:18, 2 Cor. 4:4, & Eph. 2:2 if you'll actually care to look at what responses to you are talking about this time instead of just ignoring factual responses because they don't align with what your pre-conceived notion of Christianity's beliefs as established in the Bible was (& inexplicably remains). What that means is that, assuming it's all true, John 3:16 & its extension to the unbeliever in John 3:18 both fully apply to every person, with the good of mankind universally saved & the devils thereof universally condemned to the lake of fire, as nothing written therein prevents nonbelievers from living a life in practical compliance with the Word of God & thus enabling said Word to apply fully to them, just as Jesus advised us in Matthew 4:4 & Luke 4:4.

As for John 3:36, its primary implication is that Hell is where sinners who disobey Jesus' teachings are called to repent, warning those unsaved who sin as a result of such disobedience of God's wrath still to come. So, sure, unbelievers may still suffer eternal condemnation in hell, but only because they still bear the full weight of all their sin, with the wrath of God remaining on them, just as believers do, to be punished pursuant to the nature of sins in which they'd previously engaged. In other words, nothing therein indicates that the lake of fire that is Hell will be experienced by all outside salvation, just as passages hitherto discussed & ignored (John 14:6) indicate that unbelievers who nonetheless manage to live lives compliant with the teachings of Christ can still be allowed entry to Heaven in spite of their evident lack of belief in Him.

[Ferguson97]

And, we all deserve to go to Hell.  But, Jesus died on the Cross so we don't have to if we accept Him as our personal Savior.

Why do we all deserve Hell?

Because we have fallen short of the Perfection that is God.  He would be justified in sending us to Hell for committing one (seemingly) tiny sin one time in our lives.  Since the Fall in Eden, only one man- Jesus Christ- has lived a sinless life.  He bore our punishment so we wouldn't have to.

Why does committing a sin justify eternal torment?

[100% pro-life no matter what]

And, we all deserve to go to Hell.  But, Jesus died on the Cross so we don't have to if we accept Him as our personal Savior.

Why do we all deserve Hell?

Because we have fallen short of the Perfection that is God.  He would be justified in sending us to Hell for committing one (seemingly) tiny sin one time in our lives.  Since the Fall in Eden, only one man- Jesus Christ- has lived a sinless life.  He bore our punishment so we wouldn't have to.

Why does committing a sin justify eternal torment?

Heaven is a place without sin, suffering, pain, disease, or sadness.  No sinner is worthy of entering, but we will be Sanctified by Christ.  We can't earn our place in Heaven, but, likewise, it's not too late for even the worst terrorist walking this Earth today to accept Jesus, repent, and go to Heaven.

[Ferguson97]

And, we all deserve to go to Hell.  But, Jesus died on the Cross so we don't have to if we accept Him as our personal Savior.

Why do we all deserve Hell?

Because we have fallen short of the Perfection that is God.  He would be justified in sending us to Hell for committing one (seemingly) tiny sin one time in our lives.  Since the Fall in Eden, only one man- Jesus Christ- has lived a sinless life.  He bore our punishment so we wouldn't have to.

Why does committing a sin justify eternal torment?

Heaven is a place without sin, suffering, pain, disease, or sadness.  No sinner is worthy of entering, but we will be Sanctified by Christ.  We can't earn our place in Heaven, but, likewise, it's not too late for even the worst terrorist walking this Earth today to accept Jesus, repent, and go to Heaven.

So to clarify: in your view, if Osama bin Laden or Adolf Hitler truly accepted Christ as their Lord and savior in the days before their death, you think they should go to Heaven.

But if I, an agnostic, spend my entire life donating to charity, caring for the sick and the poor, treating my neighbors with kindness, you think I should go to Hell?

Is that an accurate assessment of your belief system?

[brucejoel99]

Ferguson, if you disingenuously came here looking for an argument with an Evangelical Christian about their doctrine of Hell instead of a legitimate theological discussion pertaining to the notion that Christianity traditionally & fundamentally believes that you deserve eternal suffering for being a non-believing non-Christian, then you should've just written "Evangelicals" in the title instead of "Christians." More to the point, your OP shouldn't be predicated upon a provably false notion - that, according to the Bible, you're going to Hell for being a non-believing non-Christian - to begin with, but we clearly seem to be far past the point within this thread of you paying attention to anybody who opts to inform you of that.

[100% pro-life no matter what]

And, we all deserve to go to Hell.  But, Jesus died on the Cross so we don't have to if we accept Him as our personal Savior.

Why do we all deserve Hell?

Because we have fallen short of the Perfection that is God.  He would be justified in sending us to Hell for committing one (seemingly) tiny sin one time in our lives.  Since the Fall in Eden, only one man- Jesus Christ- has lived a sinless life.  He bore our punishment so we wouldn't have to.

Why does committing a sin justify eternal torment?

Heaven is a place without sin, suffering, pain, disease, or sadness.  No sinner is worthy of entering, but we will be Sanctified by Christ.  We can't earn our place in Heaven, but, likewise, it's not too late for even the worst terrorist walking this Earth today to accept Jesus, repent, and go to Heaven.

So to clarify: in your view, if Osama bin Laden or Adolf Hitler truly accepted Christ as their Lord and savior in the days before their death, you think they should go to Heaven.

But if I, an agnostic, spend my entire life donating to charity, caring for the sick and the poor, treating my neighbors with kindness, you think I should go to Hell?

Is that an accurate assessment of your belief system?

If Osama bin Laden or Adolf Hitler truly accepted Christ as their Savior, repenting of all their sins, they would go to Heaven.

If Mohandas Gandhi never accepted Christ as his Savior, he would not be in Heaven.

I want everyone to go to Heaven.  It's something I really struggle with, especially because my own mom is not Saved.  I don't like to think of Hell.  I don't want anyone there.  But, that's precisely why I need to tell people about Jesus.  I want to see everyone in Heaven one day!!

[Mr. Smith]

If you don't like God...why would you want to be near him?

If you like God, but you've done something terrible...repeat question one.

If you didn't believe in life and both of the above apply...repeat question one.

Arguably in either context, it would be greater eternal suffering in his presence.

[Ferguson97]

Insofar as John 3:16 is concerned, you should go take a look at Mark 4:15 very carefully & then realize that "man" as scriptures see us is both man & Satan, the tempter, with there being no such person as an individual in scripture other than God-in-Christ, & all others being the person, & the spirit or spirits, plural, of disobedience, à la Acts 26:18, 2 Cor. 4:4, & Eph. 2:2 if you'll actually care to look at what responses to you are talking about this time instead of just ignoring factual responses because they don't align with what your pre-conceived notion of Christianity's beliefs as established in the Bible was (& inexplicably remains).

I've read the verses you've listed, and I don't see how any of those would bolster the basis of your argument. And I don't see how they aren't contradicted by Ephesians 2:8-9: "For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God—not by works, so that no one can boast."

And I don't have a "pre-conceived notion" of Christianity. I was raised Christian, and had it drilled into my head from a young age that if anyone who doesn't believe in God is going to Hell.

If Osama bin Laden or Adolf Hitler truly accepted Christ as their Savior, repenting of all their sins, they would go to Heaven.

If Mohandas Gandhi never accepted Christ as his Savior, he would not be in Heaven.

I want everyone to go to Heaven.  It's something I really struggle with, especially because my own mom is not Saved.  I don't like to think of Hell.  I don't want anyone there.  But, that's precisely why I need to tell people about Jesus.  I want to see everyone in Heaven one day!!

You are certainly entitled to your beliefs, but I just cannot wrap my mind around the idea that someone could possibly deserve eternal damnation for simply not believing. Sincerely, what is your internal moral justification for this, independent of your interpretation of scripture?