SCOTUS overturns Roe megathread (pg 53 - confirmed)

[walleye26]

A few thoughts from me:

1. Not sure why Democrats are having a civil war between Leftists and moderates. Leftists are all arguing that the Democrats don’t play hardball and act like Republicans do. To me, I don’t understand why Leftists/Bernie bros haven’t understood that Democrats CAN’T play hardball like Republicans because of the bias of the Senate. The Dakotas have 1.5 M people between them, yet have as much power as California and New York combined. I’m not outright saying that leftists ideas are outright bad, but they are just politically impossible since ~24 states are solid GOP no matter what. ~8 states are competitive, but only about 18 are truly safe Dem. As long as Republicans control the Gerrymandering and the senate has a rural bias, it’s all the GOP’s fault these things happen.

2. While I think this was a bad decision, I sort of understand the idea of “send it back to the elected representatives.” I can understand the logic of “this shouldn’t have been something the court decided.” That being said, the Federal government should immediately pass an abortion rights law that guarantees abortions no questions asked for the first trimester. If half the country bans abortions outright, women will die.

3. While the Supreme Court is sort of insulated from public opinion, they shouldn’t test their luck. History suggests (from the Dred Scott decision to Court packing in the 1930s) if SCOTUS gets way out of line with public opinion, there will be a backlash. It shouldn’t surprise SCOTUS to hear about court packing when they make decisions that ~70% of the country disagrees with. It shouldn’t surprise them they have protestors outside their houses when they have justices on the court saying we should revisit precedents involving gay marriage and gay sex. That’s literally insane.

I was raised religiously, and while I liked my pastors, I stopped going because I felt that a lot of Christians (although many who attended my church were fine people) were all virtue-singling snobs. “Oh I’m so good, I go to church” as they then proceed to live a completely un-Christian life the whole rest of the week. It also bothered me that many charities that had ties to Christianity wouldn’t help those it deemed “unworthy” (LGBT, etc). That seems to me to go against all the parts of the Bible I read growing up, where Jesus always reached out to the people on the fringes of society (lepers, tax collectors, etc). I also remembered how every time Jesus had the opportunity to seize political power, he refused. Christians in this country seem to try their hardest to seize power at every opportunity. It just seemed so hypocritical to me.

[Torie]

Has this been posted here yet:

“Some House Republicans who oppose abortion rights are pushing legislation to implement a nationwide abortion ban at 15 weeks, coming just hours after the Supreme Court released its opinion overturning Roe v. Wade,” CNN reports.

“The legislation appears unlikely to advance in the Senate in the near future — due in part to the 60 votes needed to overcome a filibuster. Still, the early discussions represent the excitement energizing opponents of abortion rights, eager to capitalize on Friday’s victory.”

I'm not sure why Republicans would support this. If Democrats can negotiate a little around the edges on the strictness of the ban at 15 weeks, i.e certain exceptions for the life and physical health of the mother, that would be a reasonable compromise given the situation and that there be no trickery before 15 weeks on 'regulating' abortion clinics or limiting abortion access. 91% of all abortions occur within the first trimester and 15 weeks would obviously be higher.

Federal law supercedes any state law. So, Alabama, for instance, would go back to having legal abortion to 15 weeks.

I'm not sure why Republicans would support this. It would send a strong message to social conservatives that Republican politicians don't actually want to outright ban abortion.  

Because the law would be only about banning abortions under most circumstances after 15 weeks, while remaining silent as to their legality prior to 15 weeks?

[DaleCooper]

Has this been posted here yet:

“Some House Republicans who oppose abortion rights are pushing legislation to implement a nationwide abortion ban at 15 weeks, coming just hours after the Supreme Court released its opinion overturning Roe v. Wade,” CNN reports.

“The legislation appears unlikely to advance in the Senate in the near future — due in part to the 60 votes needed to overcome a filibuster. Still, the early discussions represent the excitement energizing opponents of abortion rights, eager to capitalize on Friday’s victory.”

I'm not sure why Republicans would support this. If Democrats can negotiate a little around the edges on the strictness of the ban at 15 weeks, i.e certain exceptions for the life and physical health of the mother, that would be a reasonable compromise given the situation and that there be no trickery before 15 weeks on 'regulating' abortion clinics or limiting abortion access. 91% of all abortions occur within the first trimester and 15 weeks would obviously be higher.

Federal law supercedes any state law. So, Alabama, for instance, would go back to having legal abortion to 15 weeks.

I'm not sure why Republicans would support this. It would send a strong message to social conservatives that Republican politicians don't actually want to outright ban abortion.  

Because the law would be only about banning abortions under most circumstances after 15 weeks, while remaining silent as to their legality prior to 15 weeks?

The legislation would result in a nationwide ban at 15 weeks with red states banning it from the moment of conception.

[soundchaser]

In general I believe that this forum is way too male to actually discuss abortion in any meaningful manner, but alas.

So was the protest I went to last night, which is why I assume the “end U.S. imperialism now!” chant became the topic of conversation.

[Torie]

Has this been posted here yet:

“Some House Republicans who oppose abortion rights are pushing legislation to implement a nationwide abortion ban at 15 weeks, coming just hours after the Supreme Court released its opinion overturning Roe v. Wade,” CNN reports.

“The legislation appears unlikely to advance in the Senate in the near future — due in part to the 60 votes needed to overcome a filibuster. Still, the early discussions represent the excitement energizing opponents of abortion rights, eager to capitalize on Friday’s victory.”

I'm not sure why Republicans would support this. If Democrats can negotiate a little around the edges on the strictness of the ban at 15 weeks, i.e certain exceptions for the life and physical health of the mother, that would be a reasonable compromise given the situation and that there be no trickery before 15 weeks on 'regulating' abortion clinics or limiting abortion access. 91% of all abortions occur within the first trimester and 15 weeks would obviously be higher.

Federal law supercedes any state law. So, Alabama, for instance, would go back to having legal abortion to 15 weeks.

I'm not sure why Republicans would support this. It would send a strong message to social conservatives that Republican politicians don't actually want to outright ban abortion.  

Because the law would be only about banning abortions under most circumstances after 15 weeks, while remaining silent as to their legality prior to 15 weeks?

The legislation would result in a nationwide ban at 15 weeks with red states banning it from the moment of conception.

Correct. And thus the poll I put up due to this lack of symmetry. Check it out, and vote if the spirit moves you.

[Storr]

In general I believe that this forum is way too male to actually discuss abortion in any meaningful manner, but alas.

So was the protest I went to last night, which is why I assume the “end U.S. imperialism now!” chant became the topic of conversation.

Oddly enough I have been in DC for vacation since Wednesday. So I decided to go to the Supreme Court yesterday afternoon. Fortunately, the protest there was not male dominated at all (I'd estimate the crowd was at least 2/3 female), unless you count the completely male Capitol Police presence.

[Amenhotep Bakari-Sellers]

https://www.yahoo.com/news/chief-justice-roberts-wanted-slow-090030424.html

Roberts wanted colleges to go slow on Roe but they refused lead by ACB whom have adoption kids

No question ACB replacing Ginsberg changed the make up of this Crt , Trump wants to be Prez again and appoint more Scalias at the Appeals level, NOT, he never appoints anyone of color

[Person Man]

Has this been posted here yet:

“Some House Republicans who oppose abortion rights are pushing legislation to implement a nationwide abortion ban at 15 weeks, coming just hours after the Supreme Court released its opinion overturning Roe v. Wade,” CNN reports.

“The legislation appears unlikely to advance in the Senate in the near future — due in part to the 60 votes needed to overcome a filibuster. Still, the early discussions represent the excitement energizing opponents of abortion rights, eager to capitalize on Friday’s victory.”

I'm not sure why Republicans would support this. If Democrats can negotiate a little around the edges on the strictness of the ban at 15 weeks, i.e certain exceptions for the life and physical health of the mother, that would be a reasonable compromise given the situation and that there be no trickery before 15 weeks on 'regulating' abortion clinics or limiting abortion access. 91% of all abortions occur within the first trimester and 15 weeks would obviously be higher.

Federal law supercedes any state law. So, Alabama, for instance, would go back to having legal abortion to 15 weeks.

I'm not sure why Republicans would support this. It would send a strong message to social conservatives that Republican politicians don't actually want to outright ban abortion.  

Because the law would be only about banning abortions under most circumstances after 15 weeks, while remaining silent as to their legality prior to 15 weeks?

The legislation would result in a nationwide ban at 15 weeks with red states banning it from the moment of conception.

Correct. And thus the poll I put up due to this lack of symmetry. Check it out, and vote if the spirit moves you.

It could get to 60 in the senate if it actually contained federally protected exceptions.

[Person Man]

Has this been posted here yet:

“Some House Republicans who oppose abortion rights are pushing legislation to implement a nationwide abortion ban at 15 weeks, coming just hours after the Supreme Court released its opinion overturning Roe v. Wade,” CNN reports.

“The legislation appears unlikely to advance in the Senate in the near future — due in part to the 60 votes needed to overcome a filibuster. Still, the early discussions represent the excitement energizing opponents of abortion rights, eager to capitalize on Friday’s victory.”

I'm not sure why Republicans would support this. If Democrats can negotiate a little around the edges on the strictness of the ban at 15 weeks, i.e certain exceptions for the life and physical health of the mother, that would be a reasonable compromise given the situation and that there be no trickery before 15 weeks on 'regulating' abortion clinics or limiting abortion access. 91% of all abortions occur within the first trimester and 15 weeks would obviously be higher.

Federal law supercedes any state law. So, Alabama, for instance, would go back to having legal abortion to 15 weeks.

I'm not sure why Republicans would support this. It would send a strong message to social conservatives that Republican politicians don't actually want to outright ban abortion.  

Because the law would be only about banning abortions under most circumstances after 15 weeks, while remaining silent as to their legality prior to 15 weeks?

The legislation would result in a nationwide ban at 15 weeks with red states banning it from the moment of conception.

Correct. And thus the poll I put up due to this lack of symmetry. Check it out, and vote if the spirit moves you.

It could get to 60 in the senate if it actually contained federally protected exceptions. A federal quickening law without Rd giving anything in return would not get a single D vote in the senate. A 18 week ban might get Casey and Manchin.

[Shaula🏳️‍⚧️]

Has this been posted here yet:

“Some House Republicans who oppose abortion rights are pushing legislation to implement a nationwide abortion ban at 15 weeks, coming just hours after the Supreme Court released its opinion overturning Roe v. Wade,” CNN reports.

“The legislation appears unlikely to advance in the Senate in the near future — due in part to the 60 votes needed to overcome a filibuster. Still, the early discussions represent the excitement energizing opponents of abortion rights, eager to capitalize on Friday’s victory.”

I'm not sure why Republicans would support this. If Democrats can negotiate a little around the edges on the strictness of the ban at 15 weeks, i.e certain exceptions for the life and physical health of the mother, that would be a reasonable compromise given the situation and that there be no trickery before 15 weeks on 'regulating' abortion clinics or limiting abortion access. 91% of all abortions occur within the first trimester and 15 weeks would obviously be higher.

Federal law supercedes any state law. So, Alabama, for instance, would go back to having legal abortion to 15 weeks.

I'm not sure why Republicans would support this. It would send a strong message to social conservatives that Republican politicians don't actually want to outright ban abortion.  

Because the law would be only about banning abortions under most circumstances after 15 weeks, while remaining silent as to their legality prior to 15 weeks?

The legislation would result in a nationwide ban at 15 weeks with red states banning it from the moment of conception.

Correct. And thus the poll I put up due to this lack of symmetry. Check it out, and vote if the spirit moves you.

It could get to 60 in the senate if it actually contained federally protected exceptions. A federal quickening law without Rd giving anything in return would not get a single D vote in the senate. A 18 week ban might get Casey and Manchin.

Casey's basically dropped all pretenses of being "pro-life" by now lmao

[Torie]

Has this been posted here yet:

“Some House Republicans who oppose abortion rights are pushing legislation to implement a nationwide abortion ban at 15 weeks, coming just hours after the Supreme Court released its opinion overturning Roe v. Wade,” CNN reports.

“The legislation appears unlikely to advance in the Senate in the near future — due in part to the 60 votes needed to overcome a filibuster. Still, the early discussions represent the excitement energizing opponents of abortion rights, eager to capitalize on Friday’s victory.”

I'm not sure why Republicans would support this. If Democrats can negotiate a little around the edges on the strictness of the ban at 15 weeks, i.e certain exceptions for the life and physical health of the mother, that would be a reasonable compromise given the situation and that there be no trickery before 15 weeks on 'regulating' abortion clinics or limiting abortion access. 91% of all abortions occur within the first trimester and 15 weeks would obviously be higher.

Federal law supercedes any state law. So, Alabama, for instance, would go back to having legal abortion to 15 weeks.

I'm not sure why Republicans would support this. It would send a strong message to social conservatives that Republican politicians don't actually want to outright ban abortion.  

Because the law would be only about banning abortions under most circumstances after 15 weeks, while remaining silent as to their legality prior to 15 weeks?

The legislation would result in a nationwide ban at 15 weeks with red states banning it from the moment of conception.

Correct. And thus the poll I put up due to this lack of symmetry. Check it out, and vote if the spirit moves you.

It could get to 60 in the senate if it actually contained federally protected exceptions.

If you are right, I would expect it to be introduced immediately. Unfortunately, I am skeptical, but hopefully wrong about that. Is there any chat on the internet about trying to do this?

[Dr Oz Lost Party!]

https://twitter.com/BonillaJL/status/1540378925074944016?t=jNL6CQG1KXxaqxBZQ6zcf...

Literally nothing she said was even remotely correct.

[The Dowager Mod]

Kind of awkward to celebrate "Land of the free" and fourth of July next week in a country where you in fact, cannot make your own decisions.

[Amenhotep Bakari-Sellers]

D's have plenty of races in the H and S to net the TRIFECTA again, but clearly everyone knows OH, FL and NC are the Tipping pt races if Rs lose those the D's will keep the H and Beasley and Demings are only 5/6 pts down and Ryan is tied and Crist is tied, with Biden at 42%, they just said that on MSNBC that OH, FL and NC are BELLWETHERS for the H but WI and PA are BELLWETHERS for S control

Alot of the H races MI 7, MN, 1 and FL 13 are MOE

[libertpaulian]

What about this for a model law?

First 15 weeks: legal on request
Weeks 16-24: rape, incest, human trafficking, domestic violence, extreme poverty, maternal health, fetal anomalies, female is <14 years of age
Weeks 25-birth: extreme medical emergencies

States who wish to go beyond this time limit may do so until viability, and maternal health must always be a relevant factor. However, this federal model is the minimum standard.

[Hammy]

Kind of awkward to celebrate "Land of the free" and fourth of July next week in a country where you in fact, cannot make your own decisions.

"Freedom" has never been anything more than an empty slogan to Republicans

[President Johnson]

Although he didn't vote to overturn Roe, it gives me second thoughts that this would be a good moment for John Roberts to retire to at least allow Biden nominating another justice to bench as long as Democrats have the senate.

Obviously I'd prefer Thomas and/or Alito to go first, but that's not going to happen unless they drop dead.

[Horus]

What about this for a model law?

First 15 weeks: legal on request
Weeks 16-24: rape, incest, human trafficking, domestic violence, extreme poverty, maternal health, fetal anomalies, female is <14 years of age
Weeks 25-birth: extreme medical emergencies

States who wish to go beyond this time limit may do so until viability, and maternal health must always be a relevant factor. However, this federal model is the minimum standard.

Sounds reasonable. The ERs of the country would never agree to it.

To them, a raped woman must carry her rape baby. Victims of incest must give birth. It's sick.

[Amenhotep Bakari-Sellers]

Well, on MSNBC that Biden is against Crt packing so, that ends thats that, Rs would create so much havoc anyways if the Ds did ignite Crt packing, the best that females can hope for in the next Congress is codify Roe, but clearly this hurts Trumps reelection chances in 24 we don't need anymore right wing judge's he appointed 300 already at the Appeals level

But, planned Parenthood isn't gonna get rid of Birth Control, but Clarence Thomas is talking about banning gay marriage at Federal levels

[Benjamin Frank]

Has this been posted here yet:

“Some House Republicans who oppose abortion rights are pushing legislation to implement a nationwide abortion ban at 15 weeks, coming just hours after the Supreme Court released its opinion overturning Roe v. Wade,” CNN reports.

“The legislation appears unlikely to advance in the Senate in the near future — due in part to the 60 votes needed to overcome a filibuster. Still, the early discussions represent the excitement energizing opponents of abortion rights, eager to capitalize on Friday’s victory.”

I'm not sure why Republicans would support this. If Democrats can negotiate a little around the edges on the strictness of the ban at 15 weeks, i.e certain exceptions for the life and physical health of the mother, that would be a reasonable compromise given the situation and that there be no trickery before 15 weeks on 'regulating' abortion clinics or limiting abortion access. 91% of all abortions occur within the first trimester and 15 weeks would obviously be higher.

Federal law supercedes any state law. So, Alabama, for instance, would go back to having legal abortion to 15 weeks.

I'm not sure why Republicans would support this. It would send a strong message to social conservatives that Republican politicians don't actually want to outright ban abortion.  

Because the law would be only about banning abortions under most circumstances after 15 weeks, while remaining silent as to their legality prior to 15 weeks?

The legislation would result in a nationwide ban at 15 weeks with red states banning it from the moment of conception.

Correct. And thus the poll I put up due to this lack of symmetry. Check it out, and vote if the spirit moves you.

Oh, thanks for the correction. I didn't think that was possible under federal law. I thought if the law sets a federal minimum at 15 weeks that would supercede any state law. I didn't know that federal law could say 'this is the maximum but states can have stricter laws.'

I've made several posts with factual errors in the last few days. If anybody cares, I'm going to punish myself by taking a one week leave from posting here.

I will allow myself an exception for commenting on economic issues.

[Hermit For Peace]

Kind of awkward to celebrate "Land of the free" and fourth of July next week in a country where you in fact, cannot make your own decisions.

"Freedom" has never been anything more than an empty slogan to Republicans

Except freedom from taxes for the wealthy and freedom to own an assault rifle at age 18 they will vociferously defend.

[Torie]

Has this been posted here yet:

“Some House Republicans who oppose abortion rights are pushing legislation to implement a nationwide abortion ban at 15 weeks, coming just hours after the Supreme Court released its opinion overturning Roe v. Wade,” CNN reports.

“The legislation appears unlikely to advance in the Senate in the near future — due in part to the 60 votes needed to overcome a filibuster. Still, the early discussions represent the excitement energizing opponents of abortion rights, eager to capitalize on Friday’s victory.”

I'm not sure why Republicans would support this. If Democrats can negotiate a little around the edges on the strictness of the ban at 15 weeks, i.e certain exceptions for the life and physical health of the mother, that would be a reasonable compromise given the situation and that there be no trickery before 15 weeks on 'regulating' abortion clinics or limiting abortion access. 91% of all abortions occur within the first trimester and 15 weeks would obviously be higher.

Federal law supercedes any state law. So, Alabama, for instance, would go back to having legal abortion to 15 weeks.

I'm not sure why Republicans would support this. It would send a strong message to social conservatives that Republican politicians don't actually want to outright ban abortion.  

Because the law would be only about banning abortions under most circumstances after 15 weeks, while remaining silent as to their legality prior to 15 weeks?

The legislation would result in a nationwide ban at 15 weeks with red states banning it from the moment of conception.

Correct. And thus the poll I put up due to this lack of symmetry. Check it out, and vote if the spirit moves you.

Oh, thanks for the correction. I didn't think that was possible under federal law. I thought if the law sets a federal minimum at 15 weeks that would supercede any state law. I didn't know that federal law could say 'this is the maximum but states can have stricter laws.'

I've made several posts with factual errors in the last few days. If anybody cares, I'm going to punish myself by taking a one week leave from posting here.

I will allow myself an exception for commenting on economic issues.

Even if I don't always agree, I am impressed with your level of expertise and facility with economic issues, so I appreciate your awarding yourself that exception!

By symmetry in this context, I mean a federal law that applies to all states that states when you have a right to an abortion, and when you may not get an abortion. Both sides need to get something out of the deal, to get votes from both sides.

[fhtagn]

"I killed my baby so I could do drugs"

Quality argument.

https://twitter.com/BuzzFeed/status/1540386807354990593?t=EhqOtoerYHbx8ycRxaAwjw...

[Angel of Death]

Does the ruling imply anything (binding) with respect to the constitutionality of legislating abortion on a federal level?

[Person Man]

Does the ruling imply anything (binding) with respect to the constitutionality of legislating abortion on a federal level?

No