thread about leak to destroy Atlasia

[At-Large Senator LouisvilleThunder]

I do not care how people use this within Atlasia. Just don't go after my person.

You should resign.

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

I do not care how people use this within Atlasia. Just don't go after my person.

What do you mean go after your person, I haven't gone after anyone's person in 12 years. Now I have gotten personal at times but those (censored) deserved it, I assure you.

I am only personally offended at one of your number. Everything else I assure you, is wholly within game.

[KaiserDave]

I do not care how people use this within Atlasia. Just don't go after my person.

What do you mean go after your person, I haven't gone after anyone's person in 12 years. Now I have gotten personal at times but those (censored) deserved it, I assure you.

I am only personally offended at one of your number. Everything else I assure you, is wholly within game.

Yankee I'm not mad at you nor am I implying you're going after me. I'm just speaking generally. We're all good, of course.

[Pericles]

Amazing that votes for Sestak and Griffin aren't just presumed to be Labor votes anymore.

[Donerail]

We should consider what drove OBD to put on his Chris Tang cosplay? He answered me that himself: apathy.

https://www.anderson.ucla.edu/faculty-and-research/decisions-operations-and-technology-management/faculty/tang

tf does this mean?? random supply chain professor catching strays out here

[AustralianSwingVoter]

Why is it that when people tire of the game they cannot simply leave on their own accord but instead endeavour to destroy it for everyone else? "If I can't have it, no one can"

[Devout Centrist]

We should consider what drove OBD to put on his Chris Tang cosplay? He answered me that himself: apathy.

https://www.anderson.ucla.edu/faculty-and-research/decisions-operations-and-technology-management/faculty/tang

tf does this mean?? random supply chain professor catching strays out here

he's referring to the guy from Hong Kong. Secretary 4 Security

[YE]

This is what happens when you will nine times in a row.

Yankee even mentioned such:

The longer Labor remains dominate, the more unpopular this is going to be and by extension our unpopularity as well and that pisses me off because it is very much how the RPP got dragged down simply by doing its job to provide competition to the JCP. This time, I refuse to eat half of the blame for bgwah's ego mania.

Without the right in this game to provide competition, it will collapse in six months.

I will keep this brief.

To begin with, I want to thank Encke's for his service as Vice Chair and I hope that someday soon he will be able to return to and continue to contribute both to the Party and to the game as a whole.

We face a critical time, a critical time for this party and a critical time for this game. I am convinced that this game is at its best when it is competitive and competitive based on ideas, policies and principles. This game will neither be stable nor healthy long term if we remain in our present state with an overly dominate left.

Right now on the other side we have two very skilled people promising and pledging to maintain and extend what is at present an over extended Labor Party and a lopsidedly imbalanced game. If they follow through on those promises, Labor itself will be dead within one year, and so will the game as a whole. Either a mass effort for mutual dissolution or the splintering of the "Single Party" state, will be the inevitable result if things continue as they are.

A little over a year ago, I made this post:

B sounds great in theory despite the fact I've helped shift the game more towards A. However, B would require serious downsizing to the point where region would need to be abolished, and it's very far fetched to see a smooth transition to B from that status quo, and even then I am somewhat skeptical that all aspects of B such as a multi-party system could easily be achieved. I do agree with Yankee that we need somewhat of a balance between the two, and I think there are a few fundamental issues that I hinted at earlier that makes such balance harder to achieve even though the game had it from 2013-2015 and perhaps earlier, long before my time and I'm not as familiar with politics in Atlasia pre-Labor formation.

Since shortly after I started playing, the game has became increasingly zombified. A combination of the forum becoming more active as a result of Trump and the fact that several inactive/old users who have migrated to hanging out on Discord could be re-recruited/contacted more easily/recruited and thus expand or preserve their status on the voting rolls. As a result, the ratio of officeholders/people who read AFE to voters has decreased, and is probably about half of what it was from 2013-2015. This in turn means to fewer or at least less influential swing voters. I don't know how fixable this is. This game isn't going to become suddenly de-discordified, and I think going full HAEV could be bad from a culture prospective, and I think even mandating that voters post on AFE will lead to forum voters being purged from the roles while Discord voters validity post on AFE. I can't speak for the other side of the political spectrum, but Labor has tried to recruit many forum voters to run for stuff, and while some have said yes, they often don't last in the game very long. There are two main reasons they don't, and thus the active player:officeholder ratio stays low.

1. The active player game can only go so big and at a certain point, promising players feel left out because so many other positions for a promotions (either in office or within the party) are occupied and this eventually leads to boredom and them giving up. Short of adding elected offices, which is a very risk proposition, I don't see a solution to this.

2. These forum officeholders don't last because they're de-attached to the party operations on Discord and see what very little traffic on AFE, at least compared to the past. Why play a game with little activity?

Since the rise of Trump and perhaps a bit before that, the forum dynamics has become increasingly polarized. Yankee mentioned in another thread today how the old IRC forum crowd included Adam, TPP (who were mostly were left wingers irl AFAIK), and TJ and Dereich. Try imagining a crowd like that coming together today and getting along. Now, and I've heard October 2018 and the Kavanaugh hearings being the breaking point here by others, people just resort to their echo chambers. That isn't always a bad thing as it allows for party machines to become stronger by using said echo chambers to pad numbers in elections and makes it harder for dreaded personality cults to form. But when you factor in the fact that the forum itself became noticeably more left wing right before the 2020 election, it's created a natural advantage towards the left that Labor has more than take advantage of, and in turn has lead to a more lopsided and less elastic electorate with fewer swing voters. This isn't really something that's fixable aside from voting for candidates IRL that'll reduce polarization

Somewhat related to the above paragraph, there just isn't a lot of new talent on the right these days. There's literally Cao and arguably BJ, and everyone else that's relevant on the right has been playing this game for at least 2 years. That is not healthy for the game whatsoever. I think the changing forum dynamics that I discussed in the above paragraph have probably hurt this but I'm not fully sure. I don't know enough to say how fixable that is short of off site recruitment from other political games like LTE or something.

Yes, the game now is reasonably competitive, and I think the current political situation is more variable in the short term. But look at what it took to achieve this....

1. 3 straight 60% landslides, including 2 with at least 66% in that span that included sweeping all 3 regions both times.
2. Labor was competitive in the South for about 15 months, including five straight gubernatorial wins and several close Senate races.
3. A bloody primary between MB and Pericles that pissed a few people off (not that many of those people were ever super found of Pericles).
4. The formation of DA by former Labor power player Jimmy as an anti-Labor alternative.
5. The Green Party raid.
6. YT breaking accepted norms and bussing in about 10 or so off site recruits and ramping up recruitment as a whole.

And finally after a year of historic Labor dominance, things have gone down to earth, and in addition to events #3-#5 that hurt Labor politically as well, we now have a presidential election that was competitive in which Labor imploded in late January, and internally was expected to lose comfortably, only to win by 3 votes and secure the White House for an unprecedented 6th term. As I said, it's an open question where things go from here but it's no guarantee the next election is as competitive as this one (or subsequent ones for the matter given the lack of new talent on the right) and one could make a very strong case it shouldn't take the above list of events just to yield a 3 vote presidential race.

Well since then we had 1 close election that crept up on both sides and 2 blowouts in which the right almost didn't try. So I don't really think this should be much if any bit of a surprise that people have turned radical out of boredom though it really sucks that so many good friends of mine are going out like this. Ideally this game needs to be turned to a new generation of serious players but I don't know if those people exist and the downwides of IRL polarization that I pointed out in my posts are very real challenges for this game. On the plus side, this game is less zombified now in part because Labor hasn't really tried in years AFAIK.

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

As much as I despise Malthusian thought, there is an allegory or analogy here that can be made with regards to these demographic death traps I talked about, less about the game inflation (though it can apply there too as YE said) and more in terms of the power trap the left gets into.

JCP won 9 out of 11 elections or something like that and the Liberals picked up where they left off for all intents and purposes.
Labor has had its recent run.

The 2016-2018 stands out in stark contrast to the whole of history and even we faced pressures of discontent over our long run. However, I always knew we were fighting up hill while the left was pushing down and it would only be a matter of time before "the norm" came back.

What we have seen these past three years is the norm over Atlasian history.

The difference is, at least back in the JCP era, there were at least some breaks that allowed the game to catch its breath. Keystone Phil, Afleitch (who was center right at the time) and then Tmthforu94.  These were made possible because of the existence of third parties, and splits in the left. Polarization prevents that now.

And for anyone thinking that party dissolution might be an answer, remember we have more parties then most periods in our history (Peebs screams in Thanos Act) and polarization has until now mostly kept them all falling in line preference wise. Dissolution of the parties would not gain anything you don't have now. A couple of people will get together in a discord server to press the situation for the left and likewise for the right.

You tell me there is an appetite for reform, a desperation for reform, but no "shift in the game structure" or change in the constitution is going to make "its just a game" a slogan that applies just as much when lefties are voting straight ticket left "because muh evil trumpists - must smash".

What amendment will make people post on AFE board?

What legislation will make discord decline?

What reform will make people loosen the echo chambers and tribalistic polarization that prevents an in game realignment around in game considerations?

Until you can answer me these questions, I am afraid the clarion call for reform unto justifying "lets break things" doesn't move me. It just some much a temporary heroine shot that will wear off once the shiny aspect is gone.

I will give you some reforms that we can do relatively soon.

1. SoFE/RG should be a constitutionally derived office, with restrictions on removal requiring a vote at least and inability to shift/merge portfolios to get around those restrictions.

2. We need to look carefully at the DoJ, but I am fine with keeping SoS and the non-legal aspects of internal consideration (what used to constitute the DoIA) at the President's discretion.

3. We need to examine the GM situation again without this brewing crisis as a backdrop clouding the debates and injecting uncertainty into the process.

4. Certain Presidential powers need to be curtailed.

There is more certainly, but I am rather tired at this hour.

[Dr. MB]

I'd like to apologize to everyone for creating this mess. Specifically to Truman/KaiserDave I didn't intend for anything personal to result from it. But for better or for worse it's making everyone sort some things out.

[beesley]

Would it be better for someone to properly calculate or corroborate the results of the national Senate Elections, to ensure no irregularities?

Anyway, I don't mean anything personal and have had good relations with pretty much everyone here, but some people's calls for change will fall on deaf ears when they have otherwise normalised bad behaviour, shall we say. And I don't necessarily mean in-game bad behaviour. My conscience is clear, just to be clear.

[Dr. MB]

I'd like to apologize to everyone for creating this mess. Specifically to Truman/KaiserDave I didn't intend for anything personal to result from it. But for better or for worse it's making everyone sort some things out.

Worst non-apology ever. Hope you enjoyed losing 90% of your friends for a sh**tty meaningless stunt.

I can’t make anyone like me.

What was so insane that your opinion could just completely 180 degree flip?

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

Would it be better for someone to properly calculate or corroborate the results of the national Senate Elections, to ensure no irregularities?

I believe people are working on this or will be tomorrow. We were preparing for multiple scenarios of malfeasance once OBD made the relevant EOs.

[President Punxsutawney Phil]

I'd like to apologize to everyone for creating this mess. Specifically to Truman/KaiserDave I didn't intend for anything personal to result from it. But for better or for worse it's making everyone sort some things out.

Worst non-apology ever. Hope you enjoyed losing 90% of your friends for a sh**tty meaningless stunt.

I can’t make anyone like me.

What was so insane that your opinion could just completely 180 degree flip?

I still like you.

[Dr. MB]

I'd like to apologize to everyone for creating this mess. Specifically to Truman/KaiserDave I didn't intend for anything personal to result from it. But for better or for worse it's making everyone sort some things out.

Worst non-apology ever. Hope you enjoyed losing 90% of your friends for a sh**tty meaningless stunt.

I can’t make anyone like me.

What was so insane that your opinion could just completely 180 degree flip?

I still like you.

Thank you Tim.

[President Punxsutawney Phil]

I'd like to apologize to everyone for creating this mess. Specifically to Truman/KaiserDave I didn't intend for anything personal to result from it. But for better or for worse it's making everyone sort some things out.

Worst non-apology ever. Hope you enjoyed losing 90% of your friends for a sh**tty meaningless stunt.

I can’t make anyone like me.

What was so insane that your opinion could just completely 180 degree flip?

I still like you.

Thank you Tim.

You're welcome.

[Attorney General & LGC Deputy Dwarven Dragon]

I'd like to apologize to everyone for creating this mess. Specifically to Truman/KaiserDave I didn't intend for anything personal to result from it. But for better or for worse it's making everyone sort some things out.

Worst non-apology ever. Hope you enjoyed losing 90% of your friends for a sh**tty meaningless stunt.

I can’t make anyone like me.

What was so insane that your opinion could just completely 180 degree flip?

I still like you.

[Dr. MB]

I'd like to apologize to everyone for creating this mess. Specifically to Truman/KaiserDave I didn't intend for anything personal to result from it. But for better or for worse it's making everyone sort some things out.

Worst non-apology ever. Hope you enjoyed losing 90% of your friends for a sh**tty meaningless stunt.

I can’t make anyone like me.

What was so insane that your opinion could just completely 180 degree flip?

I still like you.

Thank you Dwarven Dragon.

[Dr. MB]

I'd like to apologize to everyone for creating this mess. Specifically to Truman/KaiserDave I didn't intend for anything personal to result from it. But for better or for worse it's making everyone sort some things out.

Worst non-apology ever. Hope you enjoyed losing 90% of your friends for a sh**tty meaningless stunt.

I can’t make anyone like me.

What was so insane that your opinion could just completely 180 degree flip?

Don't f**king patronize me or respond to my comments anymore.

I (and many other people) really don't understand why you're doing this. You and Truman are the only ones who are taking this truly personally. I'm gonna be fine, you're gonna be fine, we're all gonna be fine. I've always liked you and never had any problem with you until today.

[Adam Griffin]

Maybe I missed a lot here, but leaks were status quo in this game for many, many years. PMs, DMs, Discord, IRC - you name it. Honestly, one of the biggest generators of drama and activity ever. I remember being PO'd whenever leaking PMs was suddenly an infractable offense on here.

I still don't understand the full scope of what was being planned, but if a group wants to end the game or whatever, I'm not sure what moral outrage exists when somebody "outs" your comments - especially when you've been publicly clamoring for such. Maybe I'm just an Old™ scheming a-hole, but these are the risks involved with conspiracies.

[Dr. MB]

I'd like to apologize to everyone for creating this mess. Specifically to Truman/KaiserDave I didn't intend for anything personal to result from it. But for better or for worse it's making everyone sort some things out.

Worst non-apology ever. Hope you enjoyed losing 90% of your friends for a sh**tty meaningless stunt.

I can’t make anyone like me.

What was so insane that your opinion could just completely 180 degree flip?

Don't f**king patronize me or respond to my comments anymore.

I (and many other people) really don't understand why you're doing this. You and Truman are the only ones who are taking this truly personally. I'm gonna be fine, you're gonna be fine, we're all gonna be fine. I've always liked you and never had any problem with you until today.

I just told you not to respond to my comments.

Rudely blowing me off as you did on discord over and over again isn't doing you any favors.

[Dr. MB]

Maybe I missed a lot here, but leaks were status quo in this game for many, many years. PMs, DMs, Discord, IRC - you name it. Honestly, one of the biggest generators of drama and activity ever. I remember being PO'd whenever leaking PMs was suddenly an infractable offense on here.

I still don't understand the full scope of what was being planned, but if a group wants to end the game or whatever, I'm not sure what moral outrage exists when somebody "outs" your comments - especially when you've been publicly clamoring for such. Maybe I'm just an Old™ scheming a-hole, but these are the risks involved with conspiracies.

They're just pissed they got caught sh*ttalking a large variety of people.

[Adam Griffin]

Maybe I missed a lot here, but leaks were status quo in this game for many, many years. PMs, DMs, Discord, IRC - you name it. Honestly, one of the biggest generators of drama and activity ever. I remember being PO'd whenever leaking PMs was suddenly an infractable offense on here.

I still don't understand the full scope of what was being planned, but if a group wants to end the game or whatever, I'm not sure what moral outrage exists when somebody "outs" your comments - especially when you've been publicly clamoring for such. Maybe I'm just an Old™ scheming a-hole, but these are the risks involved with conspiracies.

They're just pissed they got caught sh*ttalking a large variety of people.

Well that's usually how it always goes! Glad to see I haven't missed much!

[President Punxsutawney Phil]

Maybe I missed a lot here, but leaks were status quo in this game for many, many years. PMs, DMs, Discord, IRC - you name it. Honestly, one of the biggest generators of drama and activity ever. I remember being PO'd whenever leaking PMs was suddenly an infractable offense on here.

I still don't understand the full scope of what was being planned, but if a group wants to end the game or whatever, I'm not sure what moral outrage exists when somebody "outs" your comments - especially when you've been publicly clamoring for such. Maybe I'm just an Old™ scheming a-hole, but these are the risks involved with conspiracies.

Play stupid games, when stupid prizes. I'll go on a limb and just say it - MB did us all a public service.
Oh boo hoo, an apparent conspiracy to overturn the game was revealed.
If you're so upset, go cry about it.

[beesley]

I'd like to apologize to everyone for creating this mess. Specifically to Truman/KaiserDave I didn't intend for anything personal to result from it. But for better or for worse it's making everyone sort some things out.

Worst non-apology ever. Hope you enjoyed losing 90% of your friends for a sh**tty meaningless stunt.

I can’t make anyone like me.

What was so insane that your opinion could just completely 180 degree flip?

Don't f**king patronize me or respond to my comments anymore.

I (and many other people) really don't understand why you're doing this. You and Truman are the only ones who are taking this truly personally. I'm gonna be fine, you're gonna be fine, we're all gonna be fine. I've always liked you and never had any problem with you until today.

I just told you not to respond to my comments.

Rudely blowing me off as you did on discord over and over again isn't doing you any favors.

I can safely say MB was often a lone kind voice when myself and others were not, particularly to those who weren't always well liked.  There shouldn't be any reason to dislike him based on his conduct here, at least.