Which is the more progressive religion?

[Big Abraham]

Interpret this question any way you like.

[PSOL]

Islam has a more materialist view of the world explicitly stated in scripture, but it’s far-encompassing doctrines, while revolutionary at the time, are restricting now.

Christianity’s decentralized nature has a tendency for its sects to break apart and do their own thing, as it was never meant to be more than a decentralized network of autonomous cells operating in the Roman empire.

[progressive85]

By far Christianity.  There's no where near the opposition to women's rights, gay rights, etc. in Christianity as there is in Islam, but Islamic women probably do support progressive ideas but they are in societies where the traditions are that the men take control.  I would also say Islam is more theocratic in the world today, whereas Christianity is found more in pluralistic countries.  That doesn't mean all Muslims are conservative or traditionalist, but in the size of the religion I'd say that is the case that more are.

and of course I'm answering this question as a Catholic raised person living in the West, as opposed to the Middle East, so I am biased

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

[Samof94]

Interpret this question any way you like.

I voted yes but the question might be the opposite in Charlemagne’s time.

[TheReckoning]

“Progressive” is a rather loaded term, and that is the only objective, non-convoluted answer to this question.

[Statilius the Epicurean]

Christianity is more socially liberal and Islam is more fiscally liberal

[afleitch]

On a strictly personal level, extremely devout Muslims have generally been far more open to me and my sexuality than equally as devout Christians, if such a comparison can be made.

[Mopsus]

On a strictly personal level, extremely devout Muslims have generally been far more open to me and my sexuality than equally as devout Christians, if such a comparison can be made.

Do you think that comes from the shared experience of being a minority? I can’t imagine that the average Muslim in a Muslim-majority country is less homophobic than the average Christian in a Christian-majority country.

[Del Tachi]

On a strictly personal level, extremely devout Muslims have generally been far more open to me and my sexuality than equally as devout Christians, if such a comparison can be made.

Do you think that comes from the shared experience of being a minority? I can’t imagine that the average Muslim in a Muslim-majority country is less homophobic than the average Christian in a Christian-majority country.

Conceptions of homosexuality found in Muslim societies more closely resemble the traditions of Greco-Roman antiquity rather than the modern Western understanding of sexual orientation.  Muslims probably have an easier time separating "the sinner from the sin" for this reason, while modern Christian interpretations are much more influenced by secular psychology that reinforces homosexuality an immutable characteristic.  Interesting topic. 

[afleitch]

On a strictly personal level, extremely devout Muslims have generally been far more open to me and my sexuality than equally as devout Christians, if such a comparison can be made.

Do you think that comes from the shared experience of being a minority? I can’t imagine that the average Muslim in a Muslim-majority country is less homophobic than the average Christian in a Christian-majority country.

It's not really about an 'average'. The 'average' Muslim is still quite seriously devout, so it's based on a comparison to similar levels of devotion in Christians, which in Scotland, is a small pool.

Muslims tend not to take on what I tell them about my sexuality as their own business. There's less of a need to performatively 'judge' in my presence. And there's a curious amount of understanding that while not verging on agreement, is fairly accommodating.

[Okay, maybe Mike Johnson is a competent parliamentarian.]

On a strictly personal level, extremely devout Muslims have generally been far more open to me and my sexuality than equally as devout Christians, if such a comparison can be made.

Do you think that comes from the shared experience of being a minority? I can’t imagine that the average Muslim in a Muslim-majority country is less homophobic than the average Christian in a Christian-majority country.

It's not really about an 'average'. The 'average' Muslim is still quite seriously devout, so it's based on a comparison to similar levels of devotion in Christians, which in Scotland, is a small pool.

Muslims tend not to take on what I tell them about my sexuality as their own business. There's less of a need to performatively 'judge' in my presence. And there's a curious amount of understanding that while not verging on agreement, is fairly accommodating.

There's also a fairly robust tradition in Islam of antinomian-leaning mystical expressions that involve a much more accommodating attitude towards homosexuality than strict Muslim orthodoxy does. That's less the case in Christian history.

[Alben Barkley]

On a strictly personal level, extremely devout Muslims have generally been far more open to me and my sexuality than equally as devout Christians, if such a comparison can be made.

Do you think that comes from the shared experience of being a minority? I can’t imagine that the average Muslim in a Muslim-majority country is less homophobic than the average Christian in a Christian-majority country.

It's not really about an 'average'. The 'average' Muslim is still quite seriously devout, so it's based on a comparison to similar levels of devotion in Christians, which in Scotland, is a small pool.

Muslims tend not to take on what I tell them about my sexuality as their own business. There's less of a need to performatively 'judge' in my presence. And there's a curious amount of understanding that while not verging on agreement, is fairly accommodating.

The "average" Muslim in Scotland probably is still nowhere near as "devout" as the "average" Muslim in, say, Iran or Saudi Arabia. Go to one of those countries and talk about your sexuality, then see what happens. Then (if somehow you are still alive) try the same thing in the Vatican (I believe the only Christian theocracy left in the world). Then compare.

Also never heard of Christians performing honor killings even in Western countries, including the UK so...

Also there's the fact that Jesus was a pacifist with a radical message of peace, love, and tolerance whereas Muhammad was a violent genocidal child rapist. Kinda hard not to see the differences in how "progressive" the religions would be from the very start.

[Since I'm the mad scientist proclaimed by myself]

Kinda hard not to see the differences in how "progressive" the religions would be from the very start.

Sorry to burst in on your anti-Muslim parade, but Christianity being more progressive/tolerant than Islam is a recent phenomenon. The Arabian empires during the middle ages tolerated Jews and Christians living within them. They weren't equal to Muslims there, but they weren't murdering and harassing Jews left and right like Christian Europe. Arabia was also a center of scholarship and discovery of the times.

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

Kinda hard not to see the differences in how "progressive" the religions would be from the very start.

Sorry to burst in on your anti-Muslim parade, but Christianity being more progressive/tolerant than Islam is a recent phenomenon. The Arabian empires during the middle ages tolerated Jews and Christians living within them. They weren't equal to Muslims there, but they weren't murdering and harassing Jews left and right like Christian Europe. Arabia was also a center of scholarship and discovery of the times.

Saying they "tolerated" Jews and Christians is like saying black people were "tolerated" in the Jim Crow South.

[Since I'm the mad scientist proclaimed by myself]

Kinda hard not to see the differences in how "progressive" the religions would be from the very start.

Sorry to burst in on your anti-Muslim parade, but Christianity being more progressive/tolerant than Islam is a recent phenomenon. The Arabian empires during the middle ages tolerated Jews and Christians living within them. They weren't equal to Muslims there, but they weren't murdering and harassing Jews left and right like Christian Europe. Arabia was also a center of scholarship and discovery of the times.

Saying they "tolerated" Jews and Christians is like saying black people were "tolerated" in the Jim Crow South.

The point is that religious minorities were treated a lot better in the Middle East than in Europe back then.

[LBJer]

Kinda hard not to see the differences in how "progressive" the religions would be from the very start.

Sorry to burst in on your anti-Muslim parade, but Christianity being more progressive/tolerant than Islam is a recent phenomenon. The Arabian empires during the middle ages tolerated Jews and Christians living within them. They weren't equal to Muslims there, but they weren't murdering and harassing Jews left and right like Christian Europe. Arabia was also a center of scholarship and discovery of the times.

Saying they "tolerated" Jews and Christians is like saying black people were "tolerated" in the Jim Crow South.

The point is that religious minorities were treated a lot better in the Middle East than in Europe back then.

I think that in practice treatment of religious minorities varied so much in both regions that one can't really make a meaningful comparison. 

[Amenhotep Bakari-Sellers]

They're all the same Allah which is Muhammad, Pharoahs during Egyptian days were considered Allah, that's where Allah comes from black or Arab God, and Pharoahs, were Arabs either Black or Arabic offspring of Jewish Queens and Sudanese Light skinned blks, Jehovah which is Moses or Christ or Buddha which means Asian High Priest.

That prophets were actually portals to Heaven God, and why do Jews don't eat Pork and Christians do, because Yahweh was Moses who said you don't eat split Hooves animals and Catholics are from Romans, Christ didn't exactly say what Moses did

That's why I am not upset about them finding an Ossuary Box the Rapture, which they build Pyramids were meant to attract God for a Utopia Persia and it hasn't Happened yet and  Moses was Yahweh in the Old Testament, Jesus did the Transfiguration I'd Moses Died and Joshua died, then Jesus son of Joseph, brother of Jane's no lresl last name, can have an Ossuary Box, he is Moses in the New Testament

Now, in Science time there is a belief that a comet will eventually destroy is and there isn't a Rapture at all it's either Reincarnated until world ends you come back once or twice more or Nirvana you run around in spirit realm in Green Pasture

[Person Man]

Christianity is more socially liberal and Islam is more fiscally liberal

Goddamnit...

[Amenhotep Bakari-Sellers]

Religion is man made

[PSOL]

Jesus was a sex pest as well, as any and all “dope up, drop out” commune-hippies are.

Muhammad at least had the galls to oppose the disastrous society he was in to at least overthrow the godawful leadership in Medina. Jesus’s self-compromise for the genocidal Roman powers while also moralizing against Jewish self-determination and the established leadership also opposed to Roman rule. Jesus’s movement did not fight for the liberation of slaves who even converted to Christianity, the advancement of women, and was immensely undemocratic given Jesus had a stronger grasp of power and rejected democratic participation from his apostles on his movement than Muhammad ever had of his posse.

The current state of basically irreligious, middle class populations nominally calling themselves Christian in Europe and North America is irrelevant to actual doctrine and actions done by religious members since its founding.

[John Dule]

Religion is man made

Discussion over.

[Amenhotep Bakari-Sellers]

As I said before all the prophets died even Jesus his brother James had an Ossuary Box and said son of Joseph brother of Jesus, Jesus bones had an Ossuary Box so religion is man made we hope that Jesus is immortal and comes back but he said that we're all children of God but everyone of his miracles except walking on water can be literally explained just like Moses plagues, there has always been plagues

[Mopsus]

Jesus was a sex pest as well, as any and all “dope up, drop out” commune-hippies are.

Muhammad at least had the galls to oppose the disastrous society he was in to at least overthrow the godawful leadership in Medina. Jesus’s self-compromise for the genocidal Roman powers while also moralizing against Jewish self-determination and the established leadership also opposed to Roman rule. Jesus’s movement did not fight for the liberation of slaves who even converted to Christianity, the advancement of women, and was immensely undemocratic given Jesus had a stronger grasp of power and rejected democratic participation from his apostles on his movement than Muhammad ever had of his posse.

The current state of basically irreligious, middle class populations nominally calling themselves Christian in Europe and North America is irrelevant to actual doctrine and actions done by religious members since its founding.

Is this satire?

[Georg Ebner]

"Progressive religion" is a contraDictio in se.
Sure, for the presentDay vegetating tramps "progress" means not more than more drugs&copulation. But whoever is still able to think freely knows, that "progress" was&is the ideoLogy of the bourgeoisie in order to create a heaven on earth, a regnum hominis - what contradicts all religiosity.
And also all intellectuality: While probably all mediocre scientists, doctors, teachers, journalists, agitators have believed in "progress" "Since the middle of the last century, since Baudelaire, Flaubert, Kierkegaard, Dostoyevsky, Ruskin, Burckhardt, it has been a well-known fact that belief in progress is typical for the fool." (GOMEZ DAVILA)