Should Kaliningrad be returned to Germany?

[Filuwaúrdjan]

While we're just engaging in vague historical rambling, there are still some surnames of Old Prussian origin knocking around, though obviously not in the territory they originated in. They frequently end in 'eit', but the most famous of all does not: Tolkien, which likely derives from the village of Tolkynen (now Tołkiny), which is a deeply fun fact.

[Omega21]

Yes, and Constantinople should be returned to the Greeks.

Based & Eastern Roman pilled.

[Person Man]

Kaliningrad and every other Russian territory that wants to should be able to vote for independence or to petition another state to take it over after Russia is defeated.

[Anzeigenhauptmeister]

In case you didn't know, Moscow offered Germany negotiations about East Prussia in the course of the Two-Plus-Four talks, but Kohl decline with thanks.

The Two-Plus-Four Agreement stipulates that the Oder-Neisse line be the boundary line between Poland and Germany, thus expelling Königsberg.

Interesting. Was there no move by Germany to take back some territory from Poland? I think it would have been a better deal for Kaliningrad to become part of Poland while the city of Danzig is returned to Germany.

According to this 2010 SPIEGEL article a Soviet major general called Geli Batenin, who was deemed to be an intelligence official, and a West German diplomat called Joachim von Arnim met in the middle of the Two-Plus-Four talks. Batenin, who was numbered among the reformers of the Soviet military personnel, signaled his readiness to negotiate about the northern part of East Prussia. He called it a "problem (or issue) that the Soviet Union and Germany will have to face sooner or later."

Arnim, however, declined the offer, pointing out to Bonn's well-known position on the purpose of the intended reunification: As to the negotiations it's only about the FRG, the GDR and the whole of Berlin; if the Soviet Union has to face "problems with the development of the northern East Prussia, it's their funeral."

[Hope For A New Era]

Should be independent.

[PSOL]

The people of Kaliningrad want to be apart of Russia, so they should stay in Russia.

However, (the descendants of )Prussian refugees deserve a right to return and full voting rights.

[Obama-Biden Democrat]

Kaliningrad and every other Russian territory that wants to should be able to vote for independence or to petition another state to take it over after Russia is defeated.

We should give Kaliningrad to Ukraine after the war is over to compensate them for Russia stealing Crimea and parts of the Donbas in 2014.  

[It’s so Joever]

Kaliningrad and every other Russian territory that wants to should be able to vote for independence or to petition another state to take it over after Russia is defeated.

We should give Kaliningrad to Ukraine after the war is over to compensate them for Russia stealing Crimea and parts of the Donbas in 2014.  

Nobody wants to do that.

[Badger]

Hardly any Germans live there. Yes they were expelled, but this is Russian land now. It would be a violation of their self-determination to give them to a country they are so different from.

True, but f**k that. We are talking about Russia here. If Ukraine is supposedly a threat to Russia then Kaliningrad most certainly is a threat to its western neighbours. The west continously brings knives to gunfights. Russia threatening to take Crimea and Donbass back in 2014 could probably have been refuted with western threats of taking Kaliningrad in response.

 Look, I'm as rapidly anti-Putin and anti-Russian army as any poster here, but that This is unfair and ethnic cleansing to the one million almost entirely Russian population there. Doing this as some sort of revenge For at the invasion of Ukraine is grossly misplaced.

 Let's focus our energies in punishing Russia where they should be by arming Ukraine to the teeth with whatever they need plus diplomatically and economically kicking Russia in the shin's hard and repeatedly.

[CumbrianLefty]

And as already said, there are advantages in the Kaliningrad region becoming an area of Russian long term opposition to Putin and Duginism.

[TiltsAreUnderrated]

Kaliningrad and every other Russian territory that wants to should be able to vote for independence or to petition another state to take it over after Russia is defeated.

We should give Kaliningrad to Ukraine after the war is over to compensate them for Russia stealing Crimea and parts of the Donbas in 2014.  

Nobody wants to do that.

Duda grumbled about Kaliningrad not being Polish recently. I don't think it's serious at the moment but his government (and perhaps others) will need to be told to quiet down if Russia begins to collapse and the vultures circle.

[Person Man]

Kaliningrad and every other Russian territory that wants to should be able to vote for independence or to petition another state to take it over after Russia is defeated.

We should give Kaliningrad to Ukraine after the war is over to compensate them for Russia stealing Crimea and parts of the Donbas in 2014.  

Nobody wants to do that.

Duda grumbled about Kaliningrad not being Polish recently. I don't think it's serious at the moment but his government (and perhaps others) will need to be told to quiet down if Russia begins to collapse and the vultures circle.

I think otherwise his policies are awful, but more power to him. At this point, Poland has worked for it.

[Stranger in a strange land]

At this point, probably not, but it should have been the location of Israel after the War. Too late for that now obviously.

[David Hume]

In case you didn't know, Moscow offered Germany negotiations about East Prussia in the course of the Two-Plus-Four talks, but Kohl decline with thanks.

The Two-Plus-Four Agreement stipulates that the Oder-Neisse line be the boundary line between Poland and Germany, thus expelling Königsberg.

Can you share your source about this?

[Anzeigenhauptmeister]

In case you didn't know, Moscow offered Germany negotiations about East Prussia in the course of the Two-Plus-Four talks, but Kohl decline with thanks.

The Two-Plus-Four Agreement stipulates that the Oder-Neisse line be the boundary line between Poland and Germany, thus expelling Königsberg.

Can you share your source about this?

According to this 2010 SPIEGEL article a Soviet major general called Geli Batenin, who was deemed to be an intelligence official, and a West German diplomat called Joachim von Arnim met in the middle of the Two-Plus-Four talks. Batenin, who was numbered among the reformers of the Soviet military personnel, signaled his readiness to negotiate about the northern part of East Prussia. He called it a "problem (or issue) that the Soviet Union and Germany will have to face sooner or later."

Arnim, however, declined the offer, pointing out to Bonn's well-known position on the purpose of the intended reunification: As to the negotiations it's only about the FRG, the GDR and the whole of Berlin; if the Soviet Union has to face "problems with the development of the northern East Prussia, it's their funeral."

[Coldstream]

Sorry to be woke but ethnic cleansing is bad no matter who it happens to. No, it should not be given to Germany without the consent of the populace.

[Liminal Trans Girl]

Yes as well as Elsass-Lothringen