Opinion of Turkey?

[President Punxsutawney Phil]

Dry

Do you prefer dark meat or white meat? Inquiring minds what to know.

Well since you asked, I'd have to say I prefer dark meat personally, and yourself?

I am the same. Most people at the Thanksgivings I attend are opposite on this question, though.

[MABA 2020]

Dry

Do you prefer dark meat or white meat? Inquiring minds what to know.

Well since you asked, I'd have to say I prefer dark meat personally, and yourself?

I am the same. Most people at the Thanksgivings I attend are opposite on this question, though.

Interesting, interesting... I'm sure this is the discussion the OP hoped for when they asked for peoples opinion on Turkey.

I have to say though, the only time I ever eat Turkey is Christmas for traditions sake. I don't know why you would chose to eat it at any other time when there are far superior meats.

[Person Man]

God no, the Treaty of Sevres made Versaiiles look ridiculously generous in comparison.

Apart from the Kurdish bits (and we sold the pass there when we declined to support an independent Kurdistan after WW1) its present boundaries are pretty natural I would say.

Well yeah, most of the Ottoman Empire wasn’t Turkish. Atarurk did a lot of great things but just as many dick things.

[bagelman]

Massive HC. So many genocides, all of them they have gotten away with. Their ugly and uninspired flag is perched atop a mountain that was holy to Armenians as a deliberate show of macho pride in their genocide. Adolf Hitler and the Nazis were directly inspired by the success of the Turkish genocides of non-Muslim minorities and more in the planning of the Holocaust.

Constantinople was for thousands of years, from its foundation by its namesake up until the fall of the Ottoman Empire, a true treasure and a global city. Greeks, Turks, and many other peoples shared in its splendor through the eras. Now Istanbul is monolithically Turkish and has very little to offer to the world culturally besides being a pale imitation of the city it replaced. Even in the 1950s manufactured riots served to cleanse the city of almost all remaining Greeks. I remember reading a story which I think was about a teacher in what is currently eastern Turkey being outed as having Armenian ancestry and being forced to resign and being shunned by his community. My memory is fuzzy but the fact that's even plausible is unacceptable. Sharp contrast to Germany, a country that repents the horrors of Nazism.

Even today Turkey remains strongly nationalist and seeks to make itself the center of a new Turkic realm, whether it be an international alliance or a new nation. Azerbaijan, a dictatorship rated lower in political freedom than Russia and Belarus, recently won a long war with the tiny and weak eastern Armenian rump state.

The US was friends with Turkey during the cold war because it was against communism and remains in NATO because they are wise and cunning enough to know that the US and the west remains the supreme political power worldwide. However I understand that Turkish opinion of Americans is fairly low. I can't imagine Biden, who has finally recognized the Armenian genocide, has improved this.

The Treaty of Sevres was harsh and clearly a product of European imperialism but it should have been implemented. It would have saved millions of lives.

[It’s so Joever]

Tough question given the war. I think both Greece and Turkey need to sit down and negotiate, the continent has already seen way too much bloodshed so recently, it’s time to make the war to end all wars live up to its name.
I sympathize more with Turkey right now given I think the Greeks have gone a bit too far, I know that’s controversial but I don’t support Sevres. Turkey should control all of Asia Minor except for maybe Smyrna depending on how the locals feel.

[Alben Barkley]

HC, for the myriad of big and obvious reasons.

It's interesting to note that the FC voters have given very very few actual reasons for their vote.

It has an insanely deep and ancient history, İstanbul is one of the world's great cities, it has excellent music and cuisine, insanely beautiful places, and I know quite a few lovely Turkish people.

Plenty of things to be unhappy about of course but to be honest most of them apply to many other countries too.

so do the good things you mentioned.  You could say the same things about Iran, Russia or Best Korea.

I would unqualifiedly call Iran and Russia FCs too--North Korea is a bit of a complicated case due to the degree of utter totalitarianism pervading everyday life, which is far worse than Iran or Russia, but I'd still probably call it an FC on account of the virtues of traditional Korean culture.

In any case, Turkey is probably a tier above Iran or Russia in terms of civil liberties and democracies, despite being quite bad at both.

Sooo... basically any country that has contributed anything of historical, cultural significance, etc. to the world must be an FC then? Even if it was a long time ago under completely different states/regimes?

Does that mean you would have said Germany was an FC in 1941? After all, they gave us Beethoven, Mozart, etc...

[Turning Point Liyue]

HC, for the myriad of big and obvious reasons.

It's interesting to note that the FC voters have given very very few actual reasons for their vote.

It has an insanely deep and ancient history, İstanbul is one of the world's great cities, it has excellent music and cuisine, insanely beautiful places, and I know quite a few lovely Turkish people.

Plenty of things to be unhappy about of course but to be honest most of them apply to many other countries too.

so do the good things you mentioned.  You could say the same things about Iran, Russia or Best Korea.

Correct. This is meaningful because you cannot of course however, say the same about many countries, such as Canada.

[dead0man]

HC, for the myriad of big and obvious reasons.

It's interesting to note that the FC voters have given very very few actual reasons for their vote.

It has an insanely deep and ancient history, İstanbul is one of the world's great cities, it has excellent music and cuisine, insanely beautiful places, and I know quite a few lovely Turkish people.

Plenty of things to be unhappy about of course but to be honest most of them apply to many other countries too.

so do the good things you mentioned.  You could say the same things about Iran, Russia or Best Korea.

Correct. This is meaningful because you cannot of course however, say the same about many countries, such as Canada.

even this guy gets why such an FC:HC scale is so silly.  If you give every country with a rich history FC and those without HC, you end up with a stupid list that has good countries like Canada on the HC list and garbage tier countries like the PRC on the FC list.  Even Chinese people know this, it's why there are so many of them in Canada (and so few Canadians in the PRC).

[🦀🎂🦀🎂]

Atarurk had a lot of great ideas. Most of them were subsequently abandoned and still Atarurk was simply less problematic than the Ottomans or Law and Justice. It’s an asshole country. I would open my mind if they recognized what they did during WWI and maybe gave up Constantinople or at least pay indemnities to Greece and Armenia. The natural borders of that country is literally what outlined in the Treaty of Sevres.

I don't understand how you can support Atatürk and Sevres? This is like saying "Maximilian Robespierre was a great man, but France should have kept the monarchy".  Atatürk's entire ideology was building a Turkish nation out of the graveyard of the ottoman Empire, for better or for worse - there's a reason the infamous greek-Turkish mutual "population exchange" happened under his rule.

[🦀🎂🦀🎂]

The difference between North Korea and China, Iran, Turkey etc is that DPRK by nature is a modern creation that only refers to the current regime, which is not the same as the latter three.

[Хahar 🤔]

Now Istanbul is monolithically Turkish and has very little to offer to the world culturally besides being a pale imitation of the city it replaced.

What does this mean? What does it mean for a city to have something to "offer to the world culturally" and how does a city of 15 million not?

[Omega21]

Now Istanbul is monolithically Turkish and has very little to offer to the world culturally besides being a pale imitation of the city it replaced.

What does this mean? What does it mean for a city to have something to "offer to the world culturally" and how does a city of 15 million not?

Because it was much cooler when it was the capital of the Romans.

I will not elaborate further.

[Хahar 🤔]

Now Istanbul is monolithically Turkish and has very little to offer to the world culturally besides being a pale imitation of the city it replaced.

What does this mean? What does it mean for a city to have something to "offer to the world culturally" and how does a city of 15 million not?

Because it was much cooler when it was the capital of the Romans.

I will not elaborate further.

This is, at least, a more intellectually honest position than those advanced by people in this thread crying about the Treaty of Sèvres.

[It’s so Joever]

Istanbul is still a magnificent city with tons of culture and history. Cry harder, Greeks and Russians.

[Omega21]

Istanbul is still a magnificent city with tons of culture and history. Cry harder, Greeks and Russians.

Only the Greeks truly carried on the banner of Rome, the Russians were just LARPing, just like the HRE.

[It’s so Joever]

Istanbul is still a magnificent city with tons of culture and history. Cry harder, Greeks and Russians.

Only the Greeks truly carried on the banner of Rome, the Russians were just LARPing, just like the HRE.

Well I will give you that, Greece definitely has rightfully fulfilled the legacy as the successor state of the Roman Empire*

*In the third century

[Omega21]

Istanbul is still a magnificent city with tons of culture and history. Cry harder, Greeks and Russians.

Only the Greeks truly carried on the banner of Rome, the Russians were just LARPing, just like the HRE.

Well I will give you that, Greece definitely has rightfully fulfilled the legacy as the successor state of the Roman Empire*

*In the third century

Is the holy Justinian a joke to you?

[bagelman]

Now Istanbul is monolithically Turkish and has very little to offer to the world culturally besides being a pale imitation of the city it replaced.

What does this mean? What does it mean for a city to have something to "offer to the world culturally" and how does a city of 15 million not?

If the city of New York expelled all non-whites, would it still be as culturally important as it is now?

[🦀🎂🦀🎂]

The Republic of Venice has more to blame for the destruction of Constantinople's relevance than the Ottomans tbh

[CumbrianLefty]

Dry

Do you prefer dark meat or white meat? Inquiring minds what to know.

Well since you asked, I'd have to say I prefer dark meat personally, and yourself?

I am the same. Most people at the Thanksgivings I attend are opposite on this question, though.

I have to say though, the only time I ever eat Turkey is Christmas for traditions sake. I don't know why you would chose to eat it at any other time when there are far superior meats.

Turkey can be very nice cooked properly, but doing so is a bit of a faff. At least in the UK, quite a few used to eat it at Easter as well as Xmas but that former tradition seems to be dying out now.

[bagelman]

I don't like posting stuff like this but this just pisses me the fuck off.

https://www.joblo.com/moon-knight-review-bombed-armenian-genocide/

A single off hand mention was enough for some people. The mark of a civilized nation is one that acknowledges the crimes of the past, such as the Americans teaching about the Indian Removal Act and slavery and the Holocaust mourned as a terrible crime in Germany. Turkey isn't able to clear this bar, so it remains morally underwater.