Immigration Reform Key to Keeping U.S. Economy Competitive, Says Report

[jojoju1998]

Where I'm at construction laborers make $16 to $18 an hour based on the job postings I'm seeing, in a area with quite high cost of living. The trades are where the money is at, not unskilled labor, and the trades require apprenticeship and/or technical education, which, again, the "college for everyone" lie/scam has actively steered people away from.

  Construction in Florida is paying $20-25 an hour starting for anybody walking off the street and they can't find anybody. I am not familiar with California but those numbers might be outdated.

If those jobs don’t offer good health benefits, vacation, sick leave, holiday pay, work life balance, overtime pay,

Then it’s a useless job.

And the pay is useless if you break your back and you can’t do it anymore.

[jojoju1998]

We need immigrants because there are entire industries that can't find workers.

Perhaps they should offer decent wages and not chump change.

 This is nonsense. What could farmers offer fat and sloppy Americans to toil under the sun and pick fruits and vegetables and be productive doing so. Or roof on a summer day in Florida where it's 115 degrees up there and other various jobs almost no American wants. There are also trades paying good money, offering training, and many times unionized where they can't find American workers interested to work them, the plumbers and welders are retiring and their kids are not wanting to do the same jobs. This is a fact.

You surely know that a huge part of this is the lie that absolutely everyone has to go to college or you'll be a poor for life, which has influenced career paths of a huge number of people.

 Bullcrap, if your own dad is in the trades and you know you grew up with a comfortable life, you're going to tell me it's the college "brainswashing" that makes you think plumbing or welder is not a good job. Be serious, these kids are not wanting to do the job because they find something else to do or they just don't want to. In the meantime we need to fix things and there are plenty of immigrants willing to come here and work hard, bring them in and make them Americans.

You sound more like a Republican Than many republicans here.

If you want high pay in the trades, you either have to be super super skilled or start your own business. And it’s hard to start your own small business. And the pay maxes out even  if you are a skilled employee.
My Dad makes 90k a year with overtime pay. Sounds good but then take into account that he bought his house years ago, and this is after 30 years on the job. And his current employee was the first one to offer my Dad a freaking retirement plan.

[GP270watch]

Where I'm at construction laborers make $16 to $18 an hour based on the job postings I'm seeing, in a area with quite high cost of living. The trades are where the money is at, not unskilled labor, and the trades require apprenticeship and/or technical education, which, again, the "college for everyone" lie/scam has actively steered people away from.

  Construction in Florida is paying $20-25 an hour starting for anybody walking off the street and they can't find anybody. I am not familiar with California but those numbers might be outdated.

If those jobs don’t offer good health benefits, vacation, sick leave, holiday pay, work life balance, overtime pay,

Then it’s a useless job.

And the pay is useless if you break your back and you can’t do it anymore.

 I think health benefits should be separated from jobs, that is one thing that depresses wages and job movement way more than immigration. If we had a better social safety net people could afford to do the jobs they were passionate about not just what gives them healthcare. All the things you mentioned  are mandated to a certain standard by the government in other countries.

[GP270watch]

We need immigrants because there are entire industries that can't find workers.

Perhaps they should offer decent wages and not chump change.

 This is nonsense. What could farmers offer fat and sloppy Americans to toil under the sun and pick fruits and vegetables and be productive doing so. Or roof on a summer day in Florida where it's 115 degrees up there and other various jobs almost no American wants. There are also trades paying good money, offering training, and many times unionized where they can't find American workers interested to work them, the plumbers and welders are retiring and their kids are not wanting to do the same jobs. This is a fact.

You surely know that a huge part of this is the lie that absolutely everyone has to go to college or you'll be a poor for life, which has influenced career paths of a huge number of people.

 Bullcrap, if your own dad is in the trades and you know you grew up with a comfortable life, you're going to tell me it's the college "brainswashing" that makes you think plumbing or welder is not a good job. Be serious, these kids are not wanting to do the job because they find something else to do or they just don't want to. In the meantime we need to fix things and there are plenty of immigrants willing to come here and work hard, bring them in and make them Americans.

You sound more like a Republican Than many republicans here.

If you want high pay in the trades, you either have to be super super skilled or start your own business. And it’s hard to start your own small business. And the pay maxes out even  if you are a skilled employee.
My Dad makes 90k a year with overtime pay. Sounds good but then take into account that he bought his house years ago, and this is after 30 years on the job. And his current employee was the first one to offer my Dad a freaking retirement plan.

  I know a lot of immigrants making a very nice life for themselves because of the jobs they work. They start working in the fields, then roofing or construction, and as they gain experience they become supervisors or owner/operators then they buy land and houses. They do it because of an intense work ethic and they're valuable Americans even though a lot of them don't come in "legally" but eventually become citizens or permanent residents.

 The older whites I know who work in the skilled trades are not being followed in the career path by their kids. They either do something more lucrative/easier or are not interested at all. If you don't belive me, ask around.
 
 I'm anti-Republican, I don't demagogue people who are helping America and our economy as bad or talk about putting up a wall.

[jojoju1998]

Where I'm at construction laborers make $16 to $18 an hour based on the job postings I'm seeing, in a area with quite high cost of living. The trades are where the money is at, not unskilled labor, and the trades require apprenticeship and/or technical education, which, again, the "college for everyone" lie/scam has actively steered people away from.

  Construction in Florida is paying $20-25 an hour starting for anybody walking off the street and they can't find anybody. I am not familiar with California but those numbers might be outdated.

If those jobs don’t offer good health benefits, vacation, sick leave, holiday pay, work life balance, overtime pay,

Then it’s a useless job.

And the pay is useless if you break your back and you can’t do it anymore.

 I think health benefits should be separated from jobs, that is one thing that depresses wages and job movement way more than immigration. If we had a better social safety net people could afford to do the jobs they were passionate about not just what gives them healthcare. All the things you mentioned  are mandated to a certain standard by the government in other countries.

Sure that's the ideal. But we were talking the reality of jobs and immigration in the US right ?  And the reality is, healthcare is tied to jobs.  

And the government doesn't mandate those things that you listed.


That being said, once you go up the " ladder " of industries, those benefits, like sick leave, paid vacation, holidays, 401ks,  are common because companies like Intel want to attract the best employees from all over the world..


IMMIGRANTS BASICALLY.

[jojoju1998]

We need immigrants because there are entire industries that can't find workers.

Perhaps they should offer decent wages and not chump change.

 This is nonsense. What could farmers offer fat and sloppy Americans to toil under the sun and pick fruits and vegetables and be productive doing so. Or roof on a summer day in Florida where it's 115 degrees up there and other various jobs almost no American wants. There are also trades paying good money, offering training, and many times unionized where they can't find American workers interested to work them, the plumbers and welders are retiring and their kids are not wanting to do the same jobs. This is a fact.

You surely know that a huge part of this is the lie that absolutely everyone has to go to college or you'll be a poor for life, which has influenced career paths of a huge number of people.

 Bullcrap, if your own dad is in the trades and you know you grew up with a comfortable life, you're going to tell me it's the college "brainswashing" that makes you think plumbing or welder is not a good job. Be serious, these kids are not wanting to do the job because they find something else to do or they just don't want to. In the meantime we need to fix things and there are plenty of immigrants willing to come here and work hard, bring them in and make them Americans.

You sound more like a Republican Than many republicans here.

If you want high pay in the trades, you either have to be super super skilled or start your own business. And it’s hard to start your own small business. And the pay maxes out even  if you are a skilled employee.
My Dad makes 90k a year with overtime pay. Sounds good but then take into account that he bought his house years ago, and this is after 30 years on the job. And his current employee was the first one to offer my Dad a freaking retirement plan.

  I know a lot of immigrants making a very nice life for themselves because of the jobs they work. They start working in the fields, then roofing or construction, and as they gain experience they become supervisors or owner/operators then they buy land and houses. They do it because of an intense work ethic and they're valuable Americans even though a lot of them don't come in "legally" but eventually become citizens or permanent residents.

 The older whites I know who work in the skilled trades are not being followed in the career path by their kids. They either do something more lucrative/easier or are not interested at all. If you don't belive me, ask around.
 
 I'm anti-Republican, I don't demagogue people who are helping America and our economy as bad or talk about putting up a wall.

Well I wouldn't want to follow my Dad into the machining trade. None of my cousins are following our parents into the machining trade. Hell MY DAD DISCOURAGES MY SIBLINGS AND I FROM GOING INTO MACHINING.

And my Dad is a immigrant. They're all immigrants.  I don't think aiming higher is bad for a child of immigrants right ?

[GP270watch]

Well I wouldn't want to follow my Dad into the machining trade. None of my cousins are following our parents into the machining trade. Hell MY DAD DISCOURAGES MY SIBLINGS AND I FROM GOING INTO MACHINING.

And my Dad is a immigrant. They're all immigrants.  I don't think aiming higher is bad for a child of immigrants right ?

 So aren't you proving my point?

 You are American or Americanized and not following your dad into the trade that has given you a nice life, so who's going to do your dad's job when he retires?

 

[jojoju1998]

And my Dad is a immigrant. They're all immigrants.  I don't think aiming higher is bad for a child of immigrants right ?

 So aren't you proving my point?

 You are American or Americanized and not following your dad into the trade that has given you a nice life, so who's going to do your dad's job when he retires?

 

You think my family had a nice life ? 

[GP270watch]

And my Dad is a immigrant. They're all immigrants.  I don't think aiming higher is bad for a child of immigrants right ?

 So aren't you proving my point?

 You are American or Americanized and not following your dad into the trade that has given you a nice life, so who's going to do your dad's job when he retires?

 

You think my family had a nice life ?  

 From what you've posted previously it seems you live a nice life. My apologies for assuming.

[jojoju1998]

And my Dad is a immigrant. They're all immigrants.  I don't think aiming higher is bad for a child of immigrants right ?

 So aren't you proving my point?

 You are American or Americanized and not following your dad into the trade that has given you a nice life, so who's going to do your dad's job when he retires?

 

You think my family had a nice life ? 

 From you've posted previously it seems you live a nice life. My apologies for assuming.

Oh sure, I got the material goodies. A phone, laptop, food. But at the expense of what ?  The working class mentality is extermely harmful to a young person, especially immigrant young people.

9-10 hour workdays. By the time you come home, you're too tired to spend time with your kids. Or you don't have time.  Oh I get into arguments with my parents all the time. They tell me to obey them, because that's what my Dad does as an employee. Don't speak up. Don't make your voice heard.

They tell me that obeying your employer is the only way to survive as a minority person. Because they won't look down on you.

The " model " minority stereotype applies here, NOT EVERY MINORITY IS GOOD. NOT EVERY WHITE PERSON IS GOOD AS WELL.

It's not about Americanization or not. It's about the working class experience, and I am a child of that. Don't ever romantacize the working class immigrant experience. It's not as great as you think.


White Americans don't have that issue from my perspective. They don't have to prove themselves.

[Saint Milei]

Imagine believing this

[jojoju1998]

Imagine believing this

If you're referring to me, then I apologize in advance.

I'm just so frustrated, because there seems to be a romantacizing of all working class immigrants by some here. That's not saying that working class immigrants are " leechers ". What I'm going for is the emotional, and mental trauma of having working class immigrant parents. 

Believe me.

Sure, I have an I phone, A Laptop, but I have a Dad who comes home at like 6pm after 10 something hours at work, and who's too tired to spend time with his kids.  In high school, any event that I had, my parents would say " I can't make it ". And then seeing, my friends's white collar parents show up.

[Damocles]

If you're referring to me, then I apologize in advance.

I'm just so frustrated, because there seems to be a romantacizing of all working class immigrants by some here. That's not saying that working class immigrants are " leechers ". What I'm going for is the emotional, and mental trauma of having working class immigrant parents.  

Believe me.

Sure, I have an I phone, A Laptop, but I have a Dad who comes home at like 6pm after 10 something hours at work, and who's too tired to spend time with his kids.  In high school, any event that I had, my parents would say " I can't make it ". And then seeing, my friends's white collar parents show up.

Some of the things you touched on are fundamentally beyond your control. It is not an indictment of either you or your father. The underlying circumstances around your relationship with him are not your fault. That you didn’t experience those things as a child or a teenager is not at all a reflection of your character.

Comparison is always the death of self-esteem. Your friends have solid and loving familial connections? Good for them! But it isn’t relevant to your situation, and in fact, comparing yourself to them will only bring attention to the issue and make you feel less-than.

[jojoju1998]

If you're referring to me, then I apologize in advance.

I'm just so frustrated, because there seems to be a romantacizing of all working class immigrants by some here. That's not saying that working class immigrants are " leechers ". What I'm going for is the emotional, and mental trauma of having working class immigrant parents.  

Believe me.

Sure, I have an I phone, A Laptop, but I have a Dad who comes home at like 6pm after 10 something hours at work, and who's too tired to spend time with his kids.  In high school, any event that I had, my parents would say " I can't make it ". And then seeing, my friends's white collar parents show up.

Some of the things you touched on are fundamentally beyond your control. It is not an indictment of either you or your father. The underlying circumstances around your relationship with him are not your fault. That you didn’t experience those things as a child or a teenager is not at all a reflection of your character.

Comparison is always the death of self-esteem. Your friends have solid and loving familial connections? Good for them! But it isn’t relevant to your situation, and in fact, comparing yourself to them will only bring attention to the issue and make you feel less-than.

True. That's very true indeed.

Sorry for my rant you guys. The issue of immigration reform, my overall point is that it's very complicated.

[Saint Milei]

Imagine believing this

If you're referring to me, then I apologize in advance.

I'm just so frustrated, because there seems to be a romantacizing of all working class immigrants by some here. That's not saying that working class immigrants are " leechers ". What I'm going for is the emotional, and mental trauma of having working class immigrant parents. 

Believe me.

Sure, I have an I phone, A Laptop, but I have a Dad who comes home at like 6pm after 10 something hours at work, and who's too tired to spend time with his kids.  In high school, any event that I had, my parents would say " I can't make it ". And then seeing, my friends's white collar parents show up.

I wasn't referring to your rants. I meant the op but I might as well respond.

There's probably a romanticizing on atlas because a lot of dems and republicans on atlas are from working class families and naturally assume immigrant families are no different.

What I'm going for is the emotional, and mental trauma of having working class immigrant parents. 

This is your experience alone.


I do find it odd you bring up white people's experiences and say they don't have the same issues. Huge suggestion.

[ملكة كرينجيتوك]

Imagine believing this

If you're referring to me, then I apologize in advance.

I'm just so frustrated, because there seems to be a romantacizing of all working class immigrants by some here. That's not saying that working class immigrants are " leechers ". What I'm going for is the emotional, and mental trauma of having working class immigrant parents.  

Believe me.

Sure, I have an I phone, A Laptop, but I have a Dad who comes home at like 6pm after 10 something hours at work, and who's too tired to spend time with his kids.  In high school, any event that I had, my parents would say " I can't make it ". And then seeing, my friends's white collar parents show up.

I wasn't referring to your rants. I meant the op but I might as well respond.

There's probably a romanticizing on atlas because a lot of dems and republicans on atlas are aren't from working class families and naturally assume immigrant families are no different.

The teenage posters who post about their personal lives seem pretty far removed from that experience. I didn't grow up working class but I understand the experience better than say S019 or Bagel23.

What I'm going for is the emotional, and mental trauma of having working class immigrant parents.  

This is your experience alone.


I do find it odd you bring up white people's experiences and say they don't have the same issues. Huge suggestion.

It makes a lot of sense for California. The "white privilege" narrative makes sense if you live in a Safe D state/metro area, because the white people you- as a nonwhite immigrant or child of immigrants- interact with IRL are going to be more bougie and white-collar than in other places.