NYT- President Biden considering sending thousands of troops to Eastern Europe and Baltics

[emailking]

What's a little nuclear war done to anyone?

There is not going to be a nuclear war.  If it didn't happen even during the very worst moments of the Cold War between the United States and the Soviet Union, it certainly isn't going to happen now. 

That's not an argument that it won't happen now. Generally I think that sentiment is correct, if something was really likely before and didn't happen and it's a lot less likely now then it probably won't happen. But when we're talking about potentially everyone dying we can't just dismiss the possibility because it's unlikely.

[7,052,770]

But I guess abandoning the American people is something I should've come to expect from Democrats by now after the disgrace that is Obamacare.

I'll let my family members who are alive today thanks to Obamacare know that they're a disgrace.

Be sure to let the families of those that died because they can't afford insulin know their lives don't matter as much as dropping bombs on Russia.

That's a deflection and a non sequitur. I support saving lives Obamacare, I support saving lives through making sure everyone has enough insulin, and I support saving lives by making sure Russia doesn't start a war in Ukraine. I'm 3/3. You're 1/3.

[GoTfan]

What's a little nuclear war done to anyone?

There is not going to be a nuclear war.  If it didn't happen even during the very worst moments of the Cold War between the United States and the Soviet Union, it certainly isn't going to happen now. 

We literally came within one person of a nuclear war during the Missile Crisis, and that was just a Soviet officer.

[7,052,770]

What's a little nuclear war done to anyone?

There is not going to be a nuclear war.  If it didn't happen even during the very worst moments of the Cold War between the United States and the Soviet Union, it certainly isn't going to happen now. 

We literally came within one person of a nuclear war during the Missile Crisis, and that was just a Soviet officer.

Twice actually. Vasily Arkhipov and Stanislav Petrov are two of the greatest heroes of the 20th century.

[Horus]

But I guess abandoning the American people is something I should've come to expect from Democrats by now after the disgrace that is Obamacare.

I'll let my family members who are alive today thanks to Obamacare know that they're a disgrace.

Be sure to let the families of those that died because they can't afford insulin know their lives don't matter as much as dropping bombs on Russia.

That's a deflection and a non sequitur. I support saving lives Obamacare, I support saving lives through making sure everyone has enough insulin, and I support saving lives by making sure Russia doesn't start a war in Ukraine. I'm 3/3. You're 1/3.

But shouldn't we prioritize saving lives through Obamacare, making sure people get enough insulin etc. since those people are our countrymen?

[Big Abraham]

What's a little nuclear war done to anyone?

There is not going to be a nuclear war.  If it didn't happen even during the very worst moments of the Cold War between the United States and the Soviet Union, it certainly isn't going to happen now. 

We literally came within one person of a nuclear war during the Missile Crisis, and that was just a Soviet officer.

It's like people forget the Doomsday clock is an actual thing

[Hammy]

But I guess abandoning the American people is something I should've come to expect from Democrats by now after the disgrace that is Obamacare.

I'll let my family members who are alive today thanks to Obamacare know that they're a disgrace.

Be sure to let the families of those that died because they can't afford insulin know their lives don't matter as much as dropping bombs on Russia.

That's a deflection and a non sequitur. I support saving lives Obamacare, I support saving lives through making sure everyone has enough insulin, and I support saving lives by making sure Russia doesn't start a war in Ukraine. I'm 3/3. You're 1/3.

Then you agree Democrats abandoned Americans by not fighting for universal coverage. And escalating a military buildup is not going to save lives, if anything, it's going to ensure war does happen.

[7,052,770]

But I guess abandoning the American people is something I should've come to expect from Democrats by now after the disgrace that is Obamacare.

I'll let my family members who are alive today thanks to Obamacare know that they're a disgrace.

Be sure to let the families of those that died because they can't afford insulin know their lives don't matter as much as dropping bombs on Russia.

That's a deflection and a non sequitur. I support saving lives Obamacare, I support saving lives through making sure everyone has enough insulin, and I support saving lives by making sure Russia doesn't start a war in Ukraine. I'm 3/3. You're 1/3.

But shouldn't we prioritize saving lives through Obamacare, making sure people get enough insulin etc. since those people are our countrymen?

No, I don't support an "America First" ideology. It is in our national interest for Ukraine not to be annexed by an empowered and expansionist authoritarian Russia. We learned in the 1930s that ignoring such problems doesn't make them go away.

[7,052,770]

Then you agree Democrats abandoned Americans by not fighting for universal coverage.

2 Democrats did.

[jojoju1998]

Just a reminder that Biden would not be considering this IF Putin didnt send his troops down to the Ukranian/Russian Border. This isn't Iraq Folks. How many times do I have to repeat myself to make my point clear ?

What good does going to War with a nuclear power will do ? NOTHING. NOTHING. It gains nothing for anyone. Biden knows that.

The only person pushing for War is RUSSIA. PUTIN. By sending down troops to the Russian/Ukranian Border.


I am no foreign policy expert. BUT THIS IS SERIOUS STUFF!  I said this already, but it's worth repeating, SERIOUS STUFF.

This is not a puny country in the Middle east we're dealing with. This is one of the most powerful countries in the World. I don't know what the right solution is. To be honest. Diplomacy is... well... not working well right now, we should keep trying.
War should always be the last option. And I hope the diplomats can get something soon.


And by the way,

Bernie Sanders would have done the same thing in this situation. There isn't an or choice here. We can tackle domestic issues and try to deal with these international crises.

You have countries such as Spain, Canada, who in the past, have not parcipated in the major incursions led by the US, sending their own military to Eastern Europe.

[jojoju1998]

In fact, here's a hot take. George W. Bush should have spent more time tackling Putin early on rather than spending money on a useless War.

[○∙◄☻¥tπ[╪AV┼cVê└]

If they're not going to Ukraine or the border with Russia, I guess it's OK.

[Ferguson97]

We should withdraw from NATO, yes. Our own country is on the verge of collapse, we're having supply shortages, on the verge of food shortages, and our healthcare system is a mess.

And leaving NATO would fix these problems... how exactly?

[jojoju1998]

We should withdraw from NATO, yes. Our own country is on the verge of collapse, we're having supply shortages, on the verge of food shortages, and our healthcare system is a mess.

And leaving NATO would fix these problems... how exactly?

Because apparently we spend too much on the Military.  And we can somehow dramatically shift money from the Military to the social programs.

[Bootes Void]

Why are so many people babbling about Biden sending our military to war with Russia? Stationing troops in allied nations due to belligerence on the part of a sh-thole country like Russia is not escalation nor is it an act of war. Even if Russia never invades NATO, it's important that we make clear to the Russians and our own allies that we're willing to stand by our commitments.

[NYSforKennedy2024]

Why are so many people babbling about Biden sending our military to war with Russia? Stationing troops in allied nations due to belligerence on the part of a sh-thole country like Russia is not escalation nor is it an act of war. Even if Russia never invades NATO, it's important that we make clear to the Russians and our own allies that we're willing to stand by our commitments.

I hope you're the first to join the army when Russia moves forward in the coming weeks.

[DaleCooper]

We should withdraw from NATO, yes. Our own country is on the verge of collapse, we're having supply shortages, on the verge of food shortages, and our healthcare system is a mess.

And leaving NATO would fix these problems... how exactly?

Because apparently we spend too much on the Military.  And we can somehow dramatically shift money from the Military to the social programs.

People seem to believe that this country has one big treasure chest full of money and it gets spent on a first-come-first-serve basis, like all that money would've gone towards universal healthcare if the military hadn't come and stolen all of it first. America's social failings will not be solved by abolishing America's defensive spending.

[7,052,770]

We should withdraw from NATO, yes. Our own country is on the verge of collapse, we're having supply shortages, on the verge of food shortages, and our healthcare system is a mess.

And leaving NATO would fix these problems... how exactly?

Because apparently we spend too much on the Military.  And we can somehow dramatically shift money from the Military to the social programs.

People seem to believe that this country has one big treasure chest full of money and it gets spent on a first-come-first-serve basis, like all that money would've gone towards universal healthcare if the military hadn't come and stolen all of it first. America's social failings will not be solved by abolishing America's defensive spending.

Right, as long as the Senate is made up like it currently is, nothing on the Progressive wishlist will pass, regardless of what happens in Ukraine.

Now, if Democrats can have record turnout this November and help the Democrats gain seats in Congress, maybe we can get some of that. But I suspect we'll see pretty low turnout and give Congress to Republicans for the decade (optimistically) or forever (if the worst fears about voting access come true).

[Hammy]

We should withdraw from NATO, yes. Our own country is on the verge of collapse, we're having supply shortages, on the verge of food shortages, and our healthcare system is a mess.

And leaving NATO would fix these problems... how exactly?

NATO is often used as justification for our bloated military budget, and most presidents (regardless of party) seem incapable of grasping that foreign policy is not the sole part of their job. I would feel somewhat differently about this matter were foreign and domestic handled by different people.

[Bootes Void]

Why are so many people babbling about Biden sending our military to war with Russia? Stationing troops in allied nations due to belligerence on the part of a sh-thole country like Russia is not escalation nor is it an act of war. Even if Russia never invades NATO, it's important that we make clear to the Russians and our own allies that we're willing to stand by our commitments.

I hope you're the first to join the army when Russia moves forward in the coming weeks.

I’m reposting for a deterrence strategy to prevent what you mentioned from happening.

Also that  is also not a wise response to what I reposted

[Frodo]

What's a little nuclear war done to anyone?

There is not going to be a nuclear war.  If it didn't happen even during the very worst moments of the Cold War between the United States and the Soviet Union, it certainly isn't going to happen now.  

That's not an argument that it won't happen now. Generally I think that sentiment is correct, if something was really likely before and didn't happen and it's a lot less likely now then it probably won't happen. But when we're talking about potentially everyone dying we can't just dismiss the possibility because it's unlikely.

Here is the thing -I can trust states to be rational and act upon the principle of self-preservation.  As long as nuclear weapons remain in the hands of governments (and not private actors) like the United States, Russia, China, or even Iran and North Korea, I do not worry about the possibility of nuclear war.  I just don't.  You can always negotiate with them if things start getting out of hand.  

On the other hand, the mere thought of al Qaeda or the Islamic State (or another terrorist group) getting their hands on a 'dirty' nuclear bomb is positively terrifying, and one that would definitely keep me up at night because I know nothing will deter them from using it on their enemies once they get their hands on it.  You cannot reason with them.
 That is something GOT and others should really be worried about.  Not the idea of two nuclear states having a nuclear war with one another.  

[GeneralMacArthur]

Did the Trump administration break everyone's brains?  Seriously, what is wrong with you people?

A) Biden isn't starting a war with anyone.  Russia is starting a war with Ukraine.  Nobody wants this war to happen, except Russia.

B) Just because something bad is happening outside of America doesn't mean it doesn't impact America, or that we shouldn't care.  Y'all sound like the same people who wanted to abandon Rwanda during the Rwandan Genocide.  Oh it's not us being hurt so why should we care?  If you really think this is just about Ukraine, and that the entire world isn't viewing this event as a referendum on America's ability to defend vulnerable nations from Russian aggression and warmongering, then you know absolutely nothing about foreign policy.  If we just let Russia eat Ukraine, then in ten years we're going to be doing this all over again but with Romania or Belarus or Estonia or Kazakhstan.  How many countries can Russia gobble up before we say enough is enough?  How much of Eastern Europe and Central Asia can Russia gobble up before it's just the Soviet Union again?

C) Foreign and domestic policy are mostly independent spheres of governance and pretending Biden has to choose between defending Ukraine and forgiving your student loans, or whatever whiny thing people are complaining about, is just dishonest, and you know it -- you're just looking for an excuse to s--t on the administration for not using its magic dictator powers to solve whatever domestic issue affects you personally right now.

D) American soldiers may die in fighting but that just comes with the territory when you join the military.  There is always a risk that you may die in a military conflict.  That is the judgment that the POTUS, and various military officers, have to make in the course of conducting foreign policy.  Anyone acting like the fact that troops may die is in and of itself sufficient reason to avoid conflict is just being stupid.  People are going to die no matter what because this conflict is going to happen no matter what.  It's just a question of whether we let Russia slaughter innocent Ukrainians with no resistance, or whether we think it's worth putting U.S. lives on the line to try and prevent that slaughter and protect those Ukrainians.

E) If U.S. troops do die, it's not Biden's fault.  It's Russia's fault, for choosing to go to war, and choosing to use military might to kill people in a completely unprovoked and illegal war of aggressive territorial expansion.

F) Not everything is Iraq.  Please read about a different war.

G) Thank f---ing god that Trump isn't POTUS right now.  This is basically exactly the sort of event that people were hand-wringing about when Trump was undermining NATO and antagonizing our allies and blackmailing Ukraine and licking Putin's butthole and publicly spreading Russian anti-American propaganda and giving speeches threatening to abandon our alliances.  At the time we all said that was really dangerous and Republicans said "lol triggered much libtard?"  This is why that s--t was dangerous.

[Klobmentum Mutilated Herself]

There is no scenario where a US-Russia ground war does not escalate into nuclear war. Ditto for China. Nuclear war will lead to an end to almost all life, including human life, on Earth.

This is no longer about useless war or endless war; this is about an existential war that, if pursued, would kill everyone with no winners.

Are you really willing to risk life on Earth over Ukraine or Taiwan? Do you think most Americans who voted for Biden could even find Ukraine or Taiwan on a map?

I do not believe Biden has any potential of actually doing this, but he'll play the game of however close we can get so that he can look tough and the military industrial complex can make more weapons, including nuclear weapons. The military-industrial complex doesn't even want a war; they just want to make money. But there are generals in the pentagon who actually want a war.

Just by posturing like this for political and monetary gain, the risk of a nuclear accident, which is already astronomically high, gets even higher.

The generals who actually want this are HP. The regular people on Atlas and elsewhere who want this because "muh Russia" are useful idiots and HP. The arms manufacturers who want to make more money from nukes are HP. President Biden, who was one of the only members of the Obama administration with the Washington experience to know that the hopeless hawks in the Pentagon ought not be to be humored, is a HP for even posturing about this.

[○∙◄☻¥tπ[╪AV┼cVê└]

Did the Trump administration break everyone's brains?  Seriously, what is wrong with you people?

A) Biden isn't starting a war with anyone.  Russia is starting a war with Ukraine.  Nobody wants this war to happen, except Russia.

B) Just because something bad is happening outside of America doesn't mean it doesn't impact America, or that we shouldn't care.  Y'all sound like the same people who wanted to abandon Rwanda during the Rwandan Genocide.  Oh it's not us being hurt so why should we care?  If you really think this is just about Ukraine, and that the entire world isn't viewing this event as a referendum on America's ability to defend vulnerable nations from Russian aggression and warmongering, then you know absolutely nothing about foreign policy.  If we just let Russia eat Ukraine, then in ten years we're going to be doing this all over again but with Romania or Belarus or Estonia or Kazakhstan.  How many countries can Russia gobble up before we say enough is enough?  How much of Eastern Europe and Central Asia can Russia gobble up before it's just the Soviet Union again?

C) Foreign and domestic policy are mostly independent spheres of governance and pretending Biden has to choose between defending Ukraine and forgiving your student loans, or whatever whiny thing people are complaining about, is just dishonest, and you know it -- you're just looking for an excuse to s--t on the administration for not using its magic dictator powers to solve whatever domestic issue affects you personally right now.

D) American soldiers may die in fighting but that just comes with the territory when you join the military.  There is always a risk that you may die in a military conflict.  That is the judgment that the POTUS, and various military officers, have to make in the course of conducting foreign policy.  Anyone acting like the fact that troops may die is in and of itself sufficient reason to avoid conflict is just being stupid.  People are going to die no matter what because this conflict is going to happen no matter what.  It's just a question of whether we let Russia slaughter innocent Ukrainians with no resistance, or whether we think it's worth putting U.S. lives on the line to try and prevent that slaughter and protect those Ukrainians.

E) If U.S. troops do die, it's not Biden's fault.  It's Russia's fault, for choosing to go to war, and choosing to use military might to kill people in a completely unprovoked and illegal war of aggressive territorial expansion.

F) Not everything is Iraq.  Please read about a different war.

G) Thank f---ing god that Trump isn't POTUS right now.  This is basically exactly the sort of event that people were hand-wringing about when Trump was undermining NATO and antagonizing our allies and blackmailing Ukraine and licking Putin's butthole and publicly spreading Russian anti-American propaganda and giving speeches threatening to abandon our alliances.  At the time we all said that was really dangerous and Republicans said "lol triggered much libtard?"  This is why that s--t was dangerous.

It's not worth starting WW3 over Ukraine. Of course WW3 would start if Russia invaded a NATO ally.

[AtorBoltox]

There is no scenario where a US-Russia ground war does not escalate into nuclear war. Ditto for China. Nuclear war will lead to an end to almost all life, including human life, on Earth.

This is no longer about useless war or endless war; this is about an existential war that, if pursued, would kill everyone with no winners.

Are you really willing to risk life on Earth over Ukraine or Taiwan? Do you think most Americans who voted for Biden could even find Ukraine or Taiwan on a map?

I do not believe Biden has any potential of actually doing this, but he'll play the game of however close we can get so that he can look tough and the military industrial complex can make more weapons, including nuclear weapons. The military-industrial complex doesn't even want a war; they just want to make money. But there are generals in the pentagon who actually want a war.

Just by posturing like this for political and monetary gain, the risk of a nuclear accident, which is already astronomically high, gets even higher.

The generals who actually want this are HP. The regular people on Atlas and elsewhere who want this because "muh Russia" are useful idiots and HP. The arms manufacturers who want to make more money from nukes are HP. President Biden, who was one of the only members of the Obama administration with the Washington experience to know that the hopeless hawks in the Pentagon ought not be to be humored, is a HP for even posturing about this.

So the only person who isn't a HP in all of this, according to you, is Putin