Australia 2022 Election

[DavidB.]

I hate when this forum "Americanizes"--you know, overstating the "totalitarianism" of lockdowns.

If you think opposition to totalitarian lockdowns is a purely American phenonenon, it might be you who has an America-centric worldview.

[🦀🎂🦀🎂]

Man the Queensland senate candidates are a hilarious mix of egos - Pauline Hanson and George Christensen for ONP, Campbell Newman for Lib Dems and Clive Palmer back again.

[adma]

I hate when this forum "Americanizes"--you know, overstating the "totalitarianism" of lockdowns.

If you think opposition to totalitarian lockdowns is a purely American phenonenon, it might be you who has an America-centric worldview.

It's more with reference to the Int'l forum mod's pigeonholing of such coarse labelling of lockdowns as "totalitarian" as a spiritual import by American posters from the American forums.  Sort of in the same way that tasteless-garbage McMansions are frequently pigeonholed as American, yet Euro-Russian oligarchs and vulgarians build them, too...

[Pulaski]

I hate when this forum "Americanizes"--you know, overstating the "totalitarianism" of lockdowns.

If you think opposition to totalitarian lockdowns is a purely American phenonenon, it might be you who has an America-centric worldview.

If you genuinely think Australia's lockdowns were totalitarian you're listening to too much Ted Cruz and not enough of us who actually went through them.

[Pulaski]

Is there any party that considers the horrifying, totalitarian Australian lockdowns a grave mistake and actually promises no more lockdowns? This would be my issue 1, 2, 3 etc. in Australia.

No, because a large majority of citizens agreed with them, complied with them, and got vaccinated as soon as possible. You know, like you would expect from a country that hasn't become deranged to the point of self-destruction.

All this does is confirm my belief that Australians are dumb and easily influenced.

Brexit going well for you?

[Ebowed]

I hate when this forum "Americanizes"--you know, overstating the "totalitarianism" of lockdowns.

If you think opposition to totalitarian lockdowns is a purely American phenonenon, it might be you who has an America-centric worldview.

If you genuinely think Australia's lockdowns were totalitarian you're listening to too much Ted Cruz and not enough of us who actually went through them.

Speak for yourself.  Being confined to a 5 kilometre radius for 3 months at a time, repeatedly, under the threat of thousands of dollars of fines, is not an experience that I care to repeat.

[Pulaski]

I hate when this forum "Americanizes"--you know, overstating the "totalitarianism" of lockdowns.

If you think opposition to totalitarian lockdowns is a purely American phenonenon, it might be you who has an America-centric worldview.

If you genuinely think Australia's lockdowns were totalitarian you're listening to too much Ted Cruz and not enough of us who actually went through them.

Speak for yourself.  Being confined to a 5 kilometre radius for 3 months at a time, repeatedly, under the threat of thousands of dollars of fines, is not an experience that I care to repeat.

It is not an experience I care to repeat either, but it was one that I felt was necessary at the time (along with many health experts).

[Secretary of State Liberal Hack]

I hate when this forum "Americanizes"--you know, overstating the "totalitarianism" of lockdowns.

If you think opposition to totalitarian lockdowns is a purely American phenonenon, it might be you who has an America-centric worldview.

If you genuinely think Australia's lockdowns were totalitarian you're listening to too much Ted Cruz and not enough of us who actually went through them.

Speak for yourself.  Being confined to a 5 kilometre radius for 3 months at a time, repeatedly, under the threat of thousands of dollars of fines, is not an experience that I care to repeat.

It is not an experience I care to repeat either, but it was one that I felt was necessary at the time (along with many health experts).

The Issue is not so much the past lockdown but a consistent push by a loud minority to normalize some aspects of the lockdown permanently, minimize how invasive it was to fundamental rights and perhaps some remnants who want to re-adopt a zero covid approach.

Look at how people have been complaning about the scrapping of vaccine pass systems(despite almost all evidence indicating that they were useless at actualy preventing spread outside of encouraging vaccination) and how some people want to make mask wearing a permenant part of life(treating it as no different from another piece of clothing).

The term "freedumbs" and it's popularity is charecteristic of this tendency, as if not wanting any of these measures makes you some sort of far-right crazy person.

[Pulaski]

I hate when this forum "Americanizes"--you know, overstating the "totalitarianism" of lockdowns.

If you think opposition to totalitarian lockdowns is a purely American phenonenon, it might be you who has an America-centric worldview.

If you genuinely think Australia's lockdowns were totalitarian you're listening to too much Ted Cruz and not enough of us who actually went through them.

Speak for yourself.  Being confined to a 5 kilometre radius for 3 months at a time, repeatedly, under the threat of thousands of dollars of fines, is not an experience that I care to repeat.

It is not an experience I care to repeat either, but it was one that I felt was necessary at the time (along with many health experts).

The Issue is not so much the past lockdown but a consistent push by a loud minority to normalize some aspects of the lockdown permanently, minimize how invasive it was to fundamental rights and perhaps some remnants who want to re-adopt a zero covid approach.

Look at how people have been complaning about the scrapping of vaccine pass systems(despite almost all evidence indicating that they were useless at actualy preventing spread outside of encouraging vaccination) and how some people want to make mask wearing a permenant part of life(treating it as no different from another piece of clothing).

Your post is an example of how those outside Australia totally misunderstand its policies. I can tell you definitively that mask wearing is barely required in any normal setting anymore here; hospitals and public transport (and it is not now, nor was it ever, enforced on public transport). Some of you seem to have this picture of Australia as a police state when we have been living fairly normally and lockdown-free for about 6 months now.

[Secretary of State Liberal Hack]

I hate when this forum "Americanizes"--you know, overstating the "totalitarianism" of lockdowns.

If you think opposition to totalitarian lockdowns is a purely American phenonenon, it might be you who has an America-centric worldview.

If you genuinely think Australia's lockdowns were totalitarian you're listening to too much Ted Cruz and not enough of us who actually went through them.

Speak for yourself.  Being confined to a 5 kilometre radius for 3 months at a time, repeatedly, under the threat of thousands of dollars of fines, is not an experience that I care to repeat.

It is not an experience I care to repeat either, but it was one that I felt was necessary at the time (along with many health experts).

The Issue is not so much the past lockdown but a consistent push by a loud minority to normalize some aspects of the lockdown permanently, minimize how invasive it was to fundamental rights and perhaps some remnants who want to re-adopt a zero covid approach.

Look at how people have been complaning about the scrapping of vaccine pass systems(despite almost all evidence indicating that they were useless at actualy preventing spread outside of encouraging vaccination) and how some people want to make mask wearing a permenant part of life(treating it as no different from another piece of clothing).

Your post is an example of how those outside Australia totally misunderstand its policies. I can tell you definitively that mask wearing is barely required in any normal setting anymore here; hospitals and public transport (and it is not now, nor was it ever, enforced on public transport). Some of you seem to have this picture of Australia as a police state when we have been living fairly normally and lockdown-free for about 6 months now.

I understand quite well what the situation was like in australia and how defacto for much of the population life was pretty normal and is now everywhere pretty normal. My comment is about the long-term political effects and why people are still concerned about them.

[adma]

I hate when this forum "Americanizes"--you know, overstating the "totalitarianism" of lockdowns.

If you think opposition to totalitarian lockdowns is a purely American phenonenon, it might be you who has an America-centric worldview.

If you genuinely think Australia's lockdowns were totalitarian you're listening to too much Ted Cruz and not enough of us who actually went through them.

Speak for yourself.  Being confined to a 5 kilometre radius for 3 months at a time, repeatedly, under the threat of thousands of dollars of fines, is not an experience that I care to repeat.

It is not an experience I care to repeat either, but it was one that I felt was necessary at the time (along with many health experts).

The Issue is not so much the past lockdown but a consistent push by a loud minority to normalize some aspects of the lockdown permanently, minimize how invasive it was to fundamental rights and perhaps some remnants who want to re-adopt a zero covid approach.

Look at how people have been complaning about the scrapping of vaccine pass systems(despite almost all evidence indicating that they were useless at actualy preventing spread outside of encouraging vaccination) and how some people want to make mask wearing a permenant part of life(treating it as no different from another piece of clothing).

Your post is an example of how those outside Australia totally misunderstand its policies. I can tell you definitively that mask wearing is barely required in any normal setting anymore here; hospitals and public transport (and it is not now, nor was it ever, enforced on public transport). Some of you seem to have this picture of Australia as a police state when we have been living fairly normally and lockdown-free for about 6 months now.

I understand quite well what the situation was like in australia and how defacto for much of the population life was pretty normal and is now everywhere pretty normal. My comment is about the long-term political effects and why people are still concerned about them.

Yeah, but what kinds of "people"?  I see the word "people" being used as a false-universalizing weasel word by those who seek to universalize their imagined anti-elite bugaboos all the time: "people don't like modern art", as opposed to "some people", or even "a lot of people".

The fact is, "totalitarian lockdowns" is for the most part a dead horse fixation except among a devoted minor-party fringe.  It only *seems* to loom larger if you spend an excessive amount of your time within a political-Twitter and social media realm where libertarians and freedom types hog the oxygen, and you have your real-world perspective skewed by that fact...

[AustralianSwingVoter]

And perhaps more importantly lockdowns we’re a state government decision with very little input from the Feds. As such if people were angry at lockdowns we would’ve seen it in recent state elections. Which we haven’t.

[adma]

If there's a significant cohort for whom the notion of "totalitarian lockdowns" (sic) looms really large, it's the proverbial "aggrieved young men" demo--the same sorts who might have voted for the People's Party of Canada in large numbers last year, and have also fueled gender divides in other realms like higher education and the incentive to pursue it.  And I'm supposing that a lot of *those* are into, well, political Twitter, almost as a proxy for a boring old political science course with "biased" instructors and what have you...

[Tintrlvr]

I hate when this forum "Americanizes"--you know, overstating the "totalitarianism" of lockdowns.

If you think opposition to totalitarian lockdowns is a purely American phenonenon, it might be you who has an America-centric worldview.

If you genuinely think Australia's lockdowns were totalitarian you're listening to too much Ted Cruz and not enough of us who actually went through them.

Speak for yourself.  Being confined to a 5 kilometre radius for 3 months at a time, repeatedly, under the threat of thousands of dollars of fines, is not an experience that I care to repeat.

It is not an experience I care to repeat either, but it was one that I felt was necessary at the time (along with many health experts).

The Issue is not so much the past lockdown but a consistent push by a loud minority to normalize some aspects of the lockdown permanently, minimize how invasive it was to fundamental rights and perhaps some remnants who want to re-adopt a zero covid approach.

Look at how people have been complaning about the scrapping of vaccine pass systems(despite almost all evidence indicating that they were useless at actualy preventing spread outside of encouraging vaccination) and how some people want to make mask wearing a permenant part of life(treating it as no different from another piece of clothing).

Your post is an example of how those outside Australia totally misunderstand its policies. I can tell you definitively that mask wearing is barely required in any normal setting anymore here; hospitals and public transport (and it is not now, nor was it ever, enforced on public transport). Some of you seem to have this picture of Australia as a police state when we have been living fairly normally and lockdown-free for about 6 months now.

I understand quite well what the situation was like in australia and how defacto for much of the population life was pretty normal and is now everywhere pretty normal. My comment is about the long-term political effects and why people are still concerned about them.

Yeah, but what kinds of "people"?  I see the word "people" being used as a false-universalizing weasel word by those who seek to universalize their imagined anti-elite bugaboos all the time: "people don't like modern art", as opposed to "some people", or even "a lot of people".

The fact is, "totalitarian lockdowns" is for the most part a dead horse fixation except among a devoted minor-party fringe.  It only *seems* to loom larger if you spend an excessive amount of your time within a political-Twitter and social media realm where libertarians and freedom types hog the oxygen, and you have your real-world perspective skewed by that fact...

I think on the modern art point you'll find the answer is "a large majority of people", but that's neither here nor there...

[GoTfan]

Whelp, it was inevitable.

After Morrison's horror debate last night, the comment making the rounds is the fact that he's apparently "Blessed to have children without a disability".

Senator Hollie Hughes has managed to dig the hole even deeper by saying that she didn't feel particuarly blessed when she had an autistic child, and basically engaging in a lot of victim-blaming towards the disabled community.

Everyone will of course forget about this in a day or so because it'll no doubt be swept under the rug in less than a week by Murdoch and Costello, but  . . . oof.

[Pulaski]

I hate when this forum "Americanizes"--you know, overstating the "totalitarianism" of lockdowns.

If you think opposition to totalitarian lockdowns is a purely American phenonenon, it might be you who has an America-centric worldview.

If you genuinely think Australia's lockdowns were totalitarian you're listening to too much Ted Cruz and not enough of us who actually went through them.

Speak for yourself.  Being confined to a 5 kilometre radius for 3 months at a time, repeatedly, under the threat of thousands of dollars of fines, is not an experience that I care to repeat.

It is not an experience I care to repeat either, but it was one that I felt was necessary at the time (along with many health experts).

The Issue is not so much the past lockdown but a consistent push by a loud minority to normalize some aspects of the lockdown permanently, minimize how invasive it was to fundamental rights and perhaps some remnants who want to re-adopt a zero covid approach.

Look at how people have been complaning about the scrapping of vaccine pass systems(despite almost all evidence indicating that they were useless at actualy preventing spread outside of encouraging vaccination) and how some people want to make mask wearing a permenant part of life(treating it as no different from another piece of clothing).

Your post is an example of how those outside Australia totally misunderstand its policies. I can tell you definitively that mask wearing is barely required in any normal setting anymore here; hospitals and public transport (and it is not now, nor was it ever, enforced on public transport). Some of you seem to have this picture of Australia as a police state when we have been living fairly normally and lockdown-free for about 6 months now.

I understand quite well what the situation was like in australia and how defacto for much of the population life was pretty normal and is now everywhere pretty normal. My comment is about the long-term political effects and why people are still concerned about them.

Do you live in Singapore or not?

[Vosem]

Campbell Newman for Senate! Down with the Liberals!

[Ebowed]

Whelp, it was inevitable.

After Morrison's horror debate last night, the comment making the rounds is the fact that he's apparently "Blessed to have children without a disability".

Senator Hollie Hughes has managed to dig the hole even deeper by saying that she didn't feel particuarly blessed when she had an autistic child, and basically engaging in a lot of victim-blaming towards the disabled community.

Everyone will of course forget about this in a day or so because it'll no doubt be swept under the rug in less than a week by Murdoch and Costello, but  . . . oof.

I don't mean to be impolite, but your commentary is borderline delusional.

"Horror debate" is an incredible reach.  In fact, Albanese is getting credit for managing to (mostly) speak in complete sentences, given how low expectations were after his first week on the campaign trail.  His answers on foreign policy questions lacked coherence and raise his competence into question yet again.  He had a good closing statement but I saw nothing in the debate that will substantially alter the trajectory of the campaign (and not just because nobody watched it).  He's lucky that it was on Sky News, frankly.  Scott Morrison even handled a question about electric vehicles better than he did- pretty embarrassing for Labor.

There is now a real risk that due to Albanese narrowly winning the focus group straw poll*, he will think that his performance yesterday was good enough to win the election, when I would tend to think that he will need to put in more work to convince the undecided and apathetic.

*For anyone interested, the result was
Albanese 40
Morrison 35
Undecided 25

Remember, the election is still Albanese's to lose, but he has to actually convince people that he will be better than Scott Morrison, rather than convince people that Scott Morrison sucks.  Those are two different tasks.

[adma]

I understand quite well what the situation was like in australia and how defacto for much of the population life was pretty normal and is now everywhere pretty normal. My comment is about the long-term political effects and why people are still concerned about them.

Yeah, but what kinds of "people"?  I see the word "people" being used as a false-universalizing weasel word by those who seek to universalize their imagined anti-elite bugaboos all the time: "people don't like modern art", as opposed to "some people", or even "a lot of people".

The fact is, "totalitarian lockdowns" is for the most part a dead horse fixation except among a devoted minor-party fringe.  It only *seems* to loom larger if you spend an excessive amount of your time within a political-Twitter and social media realm where libertarians and freedom types hog the oxygen, and you have your real-world perspective skewed by that fact...

I think on the modern art point you'll find the answer is "a large majority of people", but that's neither here nor there...

Yeah, and certain Roger Scruton-adoring political figureheads from Thierry Baudet in the Netherlands to (tying things back to Australia) Dominic Perrottet in NSW *really* want to push that "large majority of people" point as a political tool.  When the truer reality might be more along the lines of a large majority of people being along a positive-to-open-endedly-non-committal spectrum--because, in a way, those pushing the "people don't like" part are even more abrasively unlikeable than that which they're claiming is unlikeable.  (Which parallels the libertarian-political-Twitter conundrum.)

[GoTfan]

Whelp, it was inevitable.

After Morrison's horror debate last night, the comment making the rounds is the fact that he's apparently "Blessed to have children without a disability".

Senator Hollie Hughes has managed to dig the hole even deeper by saying that she didn't feel particuarly blessed when she had an autistic child, and basically engaging in a lot of victim-blaming towards the disabled community.

Everyone will of course forget about this in a day or so because it'll no doubt be swept under the rug in less than a week by Murdoch and Costello, but  . . . oof.

I don't mean to be impolite, but your commentary is borderline delusional.

"Horror debate" is an incredible reach.  In fact, Albanese is getting credit for managing to (mostly) speak in complete sentences, given how low expectations were after his first week on the campaign trail.  His answers on foreign policy questions lacked coherence and raise his competence into question yet again.  He had a good closing statement but I saw nothing in the debate that will substantially alter the trajectory of the campaign (and not just because nobody watched it).  He's lucky that it was on Sky News, frankly.  Scott Morrison even handled a question about electric vehicles better than he did- pretty embarrassing for Labor.

There is now a real risk that due to Albanese narrowly winning the focus group straw poll*, he will think that his performance yesterday was good enough to win the election, when I would tend to think that he will need to put in more work to convince the undecided and apathetic.

*For anyone interested, the result was
Albanese 40
Morrison 35
Undecided 25

Remember, the election is still Albanese's to lose, but he has to actually convince people that he will be better than Scott Morrison, rather than convince people that Scott Morrison sucks.  Those are two different tasks.

Not sure how it's delusional when even Sky News' talking heads like Murray, Bolt and Credlin couldn't spin it positively for Morrison.

As far as foreign policy, the government's failures were made apparent yesterday. And I don't think his comment about being blessed not to have disable children is going to play all that well. Of course, Murdoch and Costello will see it swept under the rug in a day or so though.

[Ebowed]

Not sure how it's delusional when even Sky News' talking heads couldn't spin it positively for Morrison.

You seem to be (intentionally?) missing the point.  Everybody knows who Scott Morrison is, and many people have a hardened, unfavourable impression of him.  That he ran nearly even with Albanese in this debate when Shorten won all three easily in 2019 is a bad sign, not a good sign.  It's an indication that Albanese is having significant difficulty closing the deal despite widespread disaffection for the incumbent.

The Labor party literally began tweeting mid-debate about how much more cruel and inhumane they plan to be to asylum seekers.  Don't tell me that this is the sign of a confident performance, let alone a "horror debate" from the other side.

[GoTfan]

Not sure how it's delusional when even Sky News' talking heads couldn't spin it positively for Morrison.

You seem to be (intentionally?) missing the point.  Everybody knows who Scott Morrison is, and many people have a hardened, unfavourable impression of him.  That he ran nearly even with Albanese in this debate when Shorten won all three easily in 2019 is a bad sign, not a good sign.  It's an indication that Albanese is having significant difficulty closing the deal despite widespread disaffection for the incumbent.

The Labor party literally began tweeting mid-debate about how much more cruel and inhumane they plan to be to asylum seekers.  Don't tell me that this is the sign of a confident performance, let alone a "horror debate" from the other side.

Okay, let me explain it then.

I know you love to discount what NewsCorp says, but the reality is that there are a lot of stupid, low-information voters who take what papers like the Herald Sun say as gospel

[AustralianSwingVoter]

You’re both taking the debate slightly too seriously. It was broadcast on Sky getting their usual anemic ratings. Leader’s debates have never mattered in past elections and there’s no sign of that changing.

[GoTfan]

You’re both taking the debate slightly too seriously. It was broadcast on Sky getting their usual anemic ratings. Leader’s debates have never mattered in past elections and there’s no sign of that changing.

That comment about being blessed not to have disabled children is certainly making the rounds, though.

[AustralianSwingVoter]

You’re both taking the debate slightly too seriously. It was broadcast on Sky getting their usual anemic ratings. Leader’s debates have never mattered in past elections and there’s no sign of that changing.

That comment about being blessed not to have disabled children is certainly making the rounds, though.

It’s just like any speech a politician gives. If you stay on script nobody cares but if you make a bad gaffe it’ll make the rounds of all the papers. Personally (as someone on the NDIS for Autism) I can see the point he thought he was making, and many would agree with it, but the way he worded it couched in his evangelical holier-than-thou was truly vile.