Are white evangelcials less moral

[Samof94]

Do you think they are inherently less moral as a group given their support for Trump, opposition to women’s and LGBTQ rights, beliefs that occasionally flirt with theocracy, and tendency to be racially conservative and often back Neo Jim Crow Laws while being anti immigrant?

[Statilius the Epicurean]

Probably more moral than the average person, given their higher rate of donation to charity and adoption.

[If my soul was made of stone]

I get that we all miss our heady preadolescent days of watching The Colbert Report and blaming everything on the religious right in the most tumultuous moments of the Dubya administration, but these sorts of cultural critiques have gone quite stale and just aren't nearly as useful in the current sociopolitical environment.

[Klobmentum Mutilated Herself]

I get that we all miss our heady preadolescent days of watching The Colbert Report and blaming everything on the religious right in the most tumultuous moments of the Dubya administration, but these sorts of cultural critiques have gone quite stale and just aren't nearly as useful in the current sociopolitical environment.

The Military Religious Freedom Foundation, whose membership is over 95% Christian, estimates that between 28 and 34 percent of non-commisoned officers in the US Military are Christian Nationalists and Dominionists. These are the people who stormed the Capitol and are subscribing to QAnon theology. They will happily undermine our national interests if they think it will bring about the rapture.

I don't know why the left is now so adamant that the religious right no longer exists as a threat. The de-secularization of the left as a former of backlash against New Atheism is one of the worst developments to happen on the left over the past decade. The religious right is still out there in high numbers with significant power in the GOP and in the military, and they haven't gotten any better.

[afleitch]

I think if you effectively prostrate before an unabashed 'worst of the New Atheists' Trump if you are an evangelical Christian you are immoral by the standards of your own faith yes.

If you don't treat migrants or refugees as your neighbour, then you are immoral.

If you decide that the unborn is life and life is scared but you aren't moved when people are sent to the chair, then you are immoral.

From a humanist perspective if your faith blinds you to the act of love; if you see the lives of LGBT couples unfold before your and it doesn't move you, then you are inhumane

[Antonio the Sixth]

Judging the morality of broad demographic groups is a... dangerous road to go down.

[DC Al Fine]

Probably more moral than the average person, given their higher rate of donation to charity and adoption.

The latter in particular is quite telling. Adoption is a massive undertaking compared to donating money, volunteering in a soup kitchen or sh**tposting on Atlas. People who do this of whatever religious stripe are putting their money where their mouth is.

Judging the morality of broad demographic groups is a... dangerous road to go down.

Are (((those people))) less moral? Totally healthy line of questioning

[afleitch]

Barns, a religious group, suggested the rates of % of families with adopted children being 5% for evangelical Christians v 2% average. So about twice as likely.

Same sex parents are four times more likely to be raising adopted children.

https://www.lifelongadoptions.com/lgbt-adoption/lgbt-adoption-statistics.

I'm not going to argue it makes us more moral...though maybe I should

[Chunk Yogurt for President!]

I get that we all miss our heady preadolescent days of watching The Colbert Report and blaming everything on the religious right in the most tumultuous moments of the Dubya administration, but these sorts of cultural critiques have gone quite stale and just aren't nearly as useful in the current sociopolitical environment.

The Military Religious Freedom Foundation, whose membership is over 95% Christian, estimates that between 28 and 34 percent of non-commisoned officers in the US Military are Christian Nationalists and Dominionists. These are the people who stormed the Capitol and are subscribing to QAnon theology. They will happily undermine our national interests if they think it will bring about the rapture.

I don't know why the left is now so adamant that the religious right no longer exists as a threat. The de-secularization of the left as a former of backlash against New Atheism is one of the worst developments to happen on the left over the past decade. The religious right is still out there in high numbers with significant power in the GOP and in the military, and they haven't gotten any better.

The left is still convinced that the religious right is a threat.  The only thing I've seen change compared to 2010 (when I began arguing about politics on the internet) is that there has been a shift from attacking religion to claiming that Progressive Christianity is the real Christianity.

[James Monroe]

I get that we all miss our heady preadolescent days of watching The Colbert Report and blaming everything on the religious right in the most tumultuous moments of the Dubya administration, but these sorts of cultural critiques have gone quite stale and just aren't nearly as useful in the current sociopolitical environment.

The Military Religious Freedom Foundation, whose membership is over 95% Christian, estimates that between 28 and 34 percent of non-commisoned officers in the US Military are Christian Nationalists and Dominionists. These are the people who stormed the Capitol and are subscribing to QAnon theology. They will happily undermine our national interests if they think it will bring about the rapture.

I don't know why the left is now so adamant that the religious right no longer exists as a threat. The de-secularization of the left as a former of backlash against New Atheism is one of the worst developments to happen on the left over the past decade. The religious right is still out there in high numbers with significant power in the GOP and in the military, and they haven't gotten any better.

Exactly my sentiment. Those on the left who deemed critics of organized faith as being naive and outdated better look into the mirror and see the harm a zealot organizations are doing to our world. In America we're still behind other developed nations behind on scientific understandings. When I am critiquing organized faith my targets also go to astrology for promoting harmful pseudoscience to gullible individuals, alternative medicine for making people distrust the progress of reasonably tested treatment proved by science. Religion has been the backbone against progression in the years since Homo sapiens roused to prominence in Africa, it's not going to change as we see vaccine hesitation from religious folks more than the secular community.  LGBT people are stilll unprotected in most states, abortion rights are being taken away, evolution is still not accepted by many people, covid is a hoax, what is the root cause of all this distrust in reasonable evidence? If religion is not a moral problem why do we see religion people go straight out of their way to deny science even at it's basic?

When organized faith came to forfeit it was used to believe what we thought the natural universe was like in our perceptional naive ways. When we never heard of predecessors known as dinosaurs roaming the Earth. When we had un understanding of volcanos. Yet in the 4,000 years since people are still believing in a literal, literal, interpretation of the Bible, or Koran, or whatever the holy book of choice. With all the technology in our hands we have why do so many cling to blind dogma? I would want to see apologists tackle the anti-progression movement fro many religious communities.

[Klobmentum Mutilated Herself]

I get that we all miss our heady preadolescent days of watching The Colbert Report and blaming everything on the religious right in the most tumultuous moments of the Dubya administration, but these sorts of cultural critiques have gone quite stale and just aren't nearly as useful in the current sociopolitical environment.

The Military Religious Freedom Foundation, whose membership is over 95% Christian, estimates that between 28 and 34 percent of non-commisoned officers in the US Military are Christian Nationalists and Dominionists. These are the people who stormed the Capitol and are subscribing to QAnon theology. They will happily undermine our national interests if they think it will bring about the rapture.

https://theanalysis.news/jan-6th-the-real-threat-is-christian-nationalism-in-the-military-mikey-weinstein/

Our best estimate here at the Military Religious Freedom Foundation. We’re the only organization that focuses with laser-like precision on the military. Is that we’ve got somewhere and we talked about it last time. Between 28% and 34%, maybe 35% of the military that would qualify as Christian nationalists in that their belief is that they can propagate the Great Commission again. Mark 16:15, Matthew 28:19. Jesus saying, get everybody and that’s your prime directive, not love the Lord, your God and the Golden Rule. Get everybody in.

https://www.militaryreligiousfreedom.org/

[James Monroe]

By the way, if religious people are more moral...

Why is the prison population heavily religious? How come we don't see any agnostic or atheist prisoners in jail, yet every death row convict is some holy Jesus fella?

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

That "Military Religious Freedom" site reads EXACTLY like some Bush Administration era "THEOCRACY WATCH" blog, LMAO.

Also how they arrived at those numbers is not well explained and there's no mention of the methodology like you always see with election and approval rating polls, even poorly conducted ones. It kind of reminds me of those Overtime Politics "polls".

[Klobmentum Mutilated Herself]

That "Military Religious Freedom" site reads EXACTLY like some Bush Administration era "THEOCRACY WATCH" blog, LMAO.

Also how they arrived at those numbers is not well explained and there's no mention of the methodology like you always see with election and approval rating polls, even poorly conducted ones. It kind of reminds me of those Overtime Politics "polls".

95% of their members are Christian. They've had 77,000 clients — again, mostly religious people, not atheists — from the military asking them for legal protection from religious coercion and marginalization. This is not some dude blogging from his basement; Mikey Weinstein was in the Reagan administration for god's sake. A lot of the most extreme right wingers, the type of people who stormed the Capitol, are ex-military. These are people with more power to do a coup than some wackjob wearing animal skin. You can either recognize this as a serious contributor to the danger presented by the far right, or pretend not to see it.

Your liberal Evangelical church voiced by the members of Sum41 is a minority that doesn't negate the existence of a of people, especially in the military and the Republican Party, using their faith to justify destroying every liberal value you believe in.

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

That "Military Religious Freedom" site reads EXACTLY like some Bush Administration era "THEOCRACY WATCH" blog, LMAO.

Also how they arrived at those numbers is not well explained and there's no mention of the methodology like you always see with election and approval rating polls, even poorly conducted ones. It kind of reminds me of those Overtime Politics "polls".

95% of their members are Christian.

Irrelevant.

They've had 77,000 clients — again, mostly religious people, not atheists — from the military asking them for legal protection from religious coercion and marginalization.

Great work if so. That still doesn't change the fact these statistics they're citing are not scientifically based. Look at our polling subforums, we're skeptical all the time of scientifically conducted polls with transparent methodology, much less this.

This is not some dude blogging from his basement; Mikey Weinstein was in the Reagan administration for god's sake.

Okay. Still doesn't change the fact the blog on that site (not referring to any of the work the organization does or whatever) still reads like Democratic Underground posts circa 2004.

A lot of the most extreme right wingers, the type of people who stormed the Capitol, are ex-military.

The vast majority of people who stormed the Capitol are not.

Tgese are people with more power to do a coup than some wackjob wearing animal skin. You can either recognize this as a serious contributor to the danger presented by the far right, or pretend not to see it.

The only political things we heard from high level military officers after Trump was that they would NOT intervene and the military cooperated entirely with Biden's transition. And military members are not overwhelmingly right-wing.

If this coup threat is so great now then why was there no attempt to do so against Biden? Or hell even Obama for that matter. The religious right was far more prominent in 2008 than today.

[Klobmentum Mutilated Herself]

The only political things we heard from high level military officers after Trump was that they would NOT intervene and the military cooperated entirely with Biden's transition. And military members are not overwhelmingly right-wing.

If this coup threat is so great now then why was there no attempt to do so against Biden? Or hell even Obama for that matter. The religious right was far more prominent in 2008 than today.

The key to a coup being successful is backing of the military. There was a coup attempt against Biden on Jan. 6 that was unsuccessful in part because it didn't have formal backing if the military, but according to the MRFF, there are 34% of military NCOs who fit the profile of people who would be willing and able to push the next coup attempt over the finish line.

[If my soul was made of stone]

The only political things we heard from high level military officers after Trump was that they would NOT intervene and the military cooperated entirely with Biden's transition. And military members are not overwhelmingly right-wing.

If this coup threat is so great now then why was there no attempt to do so against Biden? Or hell even Obama for that matter. The religious right was far more prominent in 2008 than today.

The key to a coup being successful is backing of the military. There was a coup attempt against Biden on Jan. 6 that was unsuccessful in part because it didn't have formal backing if the military, but according to the MRFF, there are 34% of military NCOs who fit the profile of people who would be willing and able to push the next coup attempt over the finish line.

"a few lunatics who might be sympathetic to a cause" =/= "the backing of the military" (you clearly have no idea what the latter entails)

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

The only political things we heard from high level military officers after Trump was that they would NOT intervene and the military cooperated entirely with Biden's transition. And military members are not overwhelmingly right-wing.

If this coup threat is so great now then why was there no attempt to do so against Biden? Or hell even Obama for that matter. The religious right was far more prominent in 2008 than today.

The key to a coup being successful is backing of the military. There was a coup attempt against Biden on Jan. 6 that was unsuccessful in part because it didn't have formal backing if the military, but according to the MRFF, there are 34% of military NCOs who fit the profile of people who would be willing and able to push the next coup attempt over the finish line.

Again that 34% number seems to be as far what's quoted just a guess this guy pulled out of his ass. Also the definition used around the Great Commission is kind of laughable. By that standard Jimmy Carter was also one of these Dominionists as would be Pete Buttigieg and plenty of other Democrats as well as a solid majority of black voters. Hell by this standard my church is a theocratic Dominionist one.

But even if we assume it's correct, 34% is nowhere near the number needed for a successful coup especially when support amongst military rank and file is no doubt far less.

[Ferguson97]

Probably more moral than the average person, given their higher rate of donation to charity and adoption.

Those don't necessarily make someone a good person.

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

Not referring to anyone here in particular but this does remind me of one of the dumbest things I read on DailyKos in 2008, an entry on some SHOCKING video from Sarah Palin's church that proved how much of a theocrat she was that was... basically a 15 second clip showing some people raising their hands and swaying in the air to a worship song. That was it.

Now to be fair even then about half the replies were along the lines of this and yes there were some legitimately very concerning things about Palin's church (like that lunatic Nigerian pastor who preached about witchcraft or whatever who was a frequent guest speaker) but that really just underscores the question of why focus on something so laughably trivial. The truth is at the time much of the Democratic netroots was laughably out of touch with Christian culture and seemed to have a bizarre dichotomy that all churches were either those harmless historic and tradition based "high churches" or advocated a Handmaid's Tale-style theocracy with absolutely no middle ground or nuance and hilariously this led to a lot of effectively socially conservative views about how certain things were "the wrong way to worship" and had to be condemned as inherently evil and theocratic...drop the "and theocratic" and it could just as easily be fundamentalists attacking rock music. (Sometimes even in a literal parallel! "Churches that play rock music are evil hives of theocracy" was another Democratic Underground talking point.) Also love the "guided" for liberal Christians seeking a church that such sites would post often from writers who would preface it if with things like "I'm not religious now and haven't been to a church in 15 years but if you do want to go you ABSOLUTELY have to avoid churches that do things like this because when I was a kid I attended a church that did such things and preached some socially conservative doctrine", a hilarious parallel to those conservative evangelical guides about how to spot and avoid a "theologically liberal" church.

The fact that the modern day party base and even the wokies don't adhere to this way of thinking is actually a huge plus and probably one of the few positive things I'll say about the wokies.

[Klobmentum Mutilated Herself]

Again that 34% number seems to be as far what's quoted just a guess this guy pulled out of his ass. Also the definition used around the Great Commission is kind of laughable. By that standard Jimmy Carter was also one of these Dominionists as would be Pete Buttigieg and plenty of other Democrats as well as a solid majority of black voters. Hell by this standard my church is a theocratic Dominionist one.

But even if we assume it's correct, 34% is nowhere near the number needed for a successful coup especially when support amongst military rank and file is no doubt far less.

Whatever the number is, you're the person who always filibusters about how three people with anime avatars on Twitter are going to cause a century of Republican rule because they replace vowels in certain words with x's. There are certainly more extreme Dominionists in the military with the potential for actual than there any number of people you constantly rant about.

The MRFF is filled with credible people from the military. They are not anti-Christian. The stuff Milley has been revealing about the military is the same stuff the MRFF has been reporting for years. 77,000 military personnel have consulted them for help and protection from their military colleagues, including some high ranking officers. 77,000 people wouldn't do that if there weren't a sizable amount of extreme Christian Nationalists in the ranks.

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

Again that 34% number seems to be as far what's quoted just a guess this guy pulled out of his ass. Also the definition used around the Great Commission is kind of laughable. By that standard Jimmy Carter was also one of these Dominionists as would be Pete Buttigieg and plenty of other Democrats as well as a solid majority of black voters. Hell by this standard my church is a theocratic Dominionist one.

But even if we assume it's correct, 34% is nowhere near the number needed for a successful coup especially when support amongst military rank and file is no doubt far less.

Whatever the number is, you're the person who always filibusters about how three people with anime avatars on Twitter are going to cause a century of Republican rule because they replace vowels in certain words with x's.

Please cite a single post where I said anything would result in a century of Republican rule.

There are certainly more extreme Dominionists in the military with the potential for actual than there any number of people you constantly rant about.

The MRFF is filled with credible people from the military. They are not anti-Christian.

I never said they were anti-Christian.

The stuff Milley has been revealing about the military is the same stuff the MRFF has been reporting for years. 77,000 military personnel have consulted them for help and protection from their military colleagues, including some high ranking officers. 77,000 people wouldn't do that if there weren't a sizable amount of extreme Christian Nationalists in the ranks.

Discrimination issues in the military while important to address, are not the same thing as the country being THIS CLOSE to a literal Handmaid's Tale like theocracy.

[Klobmentum Mutilated Herself]

Again that 34% number seems to be as far what's quoted just a guess this guy pulled out of his ass. Also the definition used around the Great Commission is kind of laughable. By that standard Jimmy Carter was also one of these Dominionists as would be Pete Buttigieg and plenty of other Democrats as well as a solid majority of black voters. Hell by this standard my church is a theocratic Dominionist one.

But even if we assume it's correct, 34% is nowhere near the number needed for a successful coup especially when support amongst military rank and file is no doubt far less.

Whatever the number is, you're the person who always filibusters about how three people with anime avatars on Twitter are going to cause a century of Republican rule because they replace vowels in certain words with x's.

Please cite a single post where I said anything would result in a century of Republican rule.

Thank you for proving my point. You're the most pedantic person alive regarding other people's wording when they say "nobody says this" and literally (figuratively) everyone but you knows the mean "nobody except a miniscule, insignificant, amount of powerless nobodies says this", but when actual credible people like those at the MRFF start talking about meaningful (not a majority) amount of people who are not insignificant in their real world threat, it's "yeah, well, nobody is ACTUALLY a threat, lmao."

Discrimination issues in the military while important to address, are not the same thing as the country being THIS CLOSE to a literal Handmaid's Tale like theocracy.

I never said we were THIS CLOSE to a literal Handmaid's Tail. Please cite a single instance where I said that. (See? I can do that too! Annoying, isn't it?) I said it was real, credible threat and that the amount of people, while a minority, is significant.

[Amenhotep Bakari-Sellers]

Jesus talks about the gap between the rich and poor as well as living a balanced life, Evangelicals like Rush Limbaugh forget about it and talk about sin and how evil it is and this was from days of Apartheid until now, but they're not immoral

[Statilius the Epicurean]

Probably more moral than the average person, given their higher rate of donation to charity and adoption.

Those don't necessarily make someone a good person.

How much one gives to help others is far more important to being a good person than one's abstract political beliefs.