Celebrate the 9-9 Senate - Down from 11-7 Labor! - Labor Losing Ground with Voters

[GM Team Member and Senator WB]

For the record, what did CentristRepublican say that was transphobic?  We know how leftists are these days with throwing around baseless accusations.  Let's get the facts first.

Because while you can't control who you fall in love with, you have one gender, the one given to you at birth, and any claims that you are actually from the other gender, or are "trapped" in the body of a male when you are female (or vice-versa), are completely false (and should be cause for concern), and you shouldn't be allowed to surgically change your gender. There's a clear line - you are born one gender, and you shouldn't try to change that gender; it should not at all be condoned by the government under any circumstances.

[DabbingSanta]

For the record, what did CentristRepublican say that was transphobic?  We know how leftists are these days with throwing around baseless accusations.  Let's get the facts first.

Because while you can't control who you fall in love with, you have one gender, the one given to you at birth, and any claims that you are actually from the other gender, or are "trapped" in the body of a male when you are female (or vice-versa), are completely false (and should be cause for concern), and you shouldn't be allowed to surgically change your gender. There's a clear line - you are born one gender, and you shouldn't try to change that gender; it should not at all be condoned by the government under any circumstances.

You're kicking someone out for that?  He's not even wrong, you know.

[At-Large Senator LouisvilleThunder]

For the record, what did CentristRepublican say that was transphobic?  We know how leftists are these days with throwing around baseless accusations.  Let's get the facts first.

Because while you can't control who you fall in love with, you have one gender, the one given to you at birth, and any claims that you are actually from the other gender, or are "trapped" in the body of a male when you are female (or vice-versa), are completely false (and should be cause for concern), and you shouldn't be allowed to surgically change your gender. There's a clear line - you are born one gender, and you shouldn't try to change that gender; it should not at all be condoned by the government under any circumstances.

Weatherboy, you're not going to cancel your way to re-appointing yourself to the Senate. CentristRepublican won't let himself be your chew toy like Wulfric was.* You need to respect the results of the election. The people had their democratic say, and you lost.

*That sounds funny considering you're a furry, lol.

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

Firstly, Yankee and LT admitting that their perception of [the current iteration of] the Democratic Alliance was the same as Labor’s: that the DA was and was always meant to be a front that acted essentially as a caucus of the Federalist Party while putting on the public image of being a moderate or even center-left outfit.

I was a member of the DA around the time of its founding and its original purpose was going to be a large big tent anti-Labor party and they were trying to get lfromnj/OSR to join the party while trying to get left wingers to join the party.

Indeed that was the original purpose, though since pretty much the beginning of this year things have changed, something I link back to a conversation I had with tmth about the future of the party after the December Disaster.

And yankee, communication is a two-way street. We had no contact from the feds about CR, so all we could assume was that they were running as DA in name only. With highly known trans politicians like UNL in our party we also couldn't ignore what he had said a while back. I still am waiting for a response from him on it. I do not care whether he works with you on this (as a matter of principle, we still aren't going to punish people for taking a different side), I care whether he is still transphobic.

There is no formal communication between the DA and the Fed chairs because of your actions in August.

When I saw him declare I thought he was an Indy. Then I realized he was DA after I asked him to seek the nomination of the Feds, I figured you were going for two. Then I saw your Oakvalelian cosplay...

The only post I saw relating to trans issues by him before Monday was a vague statement saying he was "center right on the issue". It looked to me like you were going firing squad first, clarification later

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

Yankee, I think you are interpreting my 'duplicitous' comment as a more negative one than it was. Perhaps the wording was harsh but I wasn't intending to pass a moral judgement on Centrist Republican; merely a risk assessment from the perspective of a party leader. Granted, I could be wrong about CR's situation but it seemed to me that from the moment the first votes were cast he was running as a Federalist candidate in all but name.

Obviously if CR had coordinated with the party leadership before hand and then just before the election they had changed his mind to oppose him then yeah; that is obviously a terrible decision on behalf of the DA.

On the other hand if he just chose to run on his own without even talking to anyone in DA leadership, but then coordinated with Fed leadership after you reached out, then that should have been a red flag to them. For one thing, it undercuts any negotiating position the party could have had in trying to form a coalition. Also, the DA and any other centrist party cannot be quite as liberal (small 'l') with their candidate selection as the Feds have the liberty to be. The federalists gain broadly any time a player broadly on the right or center is promoted, as the base of Federalism is well established as the central pillar of both the center-right and the right. The DA on the other hand needs to focus on people who believe in the Democratic Alliance as a concept because their natural risk of being displaced entirely is much higher.

Not going to comment on the other stuff (some of it is true, some of it is hyperbole), but this

Not to mention how he helped cripple the previous administration he GOTVed out of office, a month in by joining it and then participating in a mass resignation that left the President reeling trying to fill the vacancies.

is ridiculous. DFW bullied me out of your administration over something I did while trying to get a constitutional amendment ratified (one of the ones you championed if I recall), threatening to have me charged with something or other. This combined with several of my closer friends choosing to leave the game at the same time just left me not wanting to deal with it all - I was still only a few months into the game and seemed to be seeing hostility in every direction. If you want to air this particular grievance, take it up with him.

If it was just one thing maybe, but the combination of the two amounts to me getting f again.

[GM Team Member and Senator WB]

For the record, what did CentristRepublican say that was transphobic?  We know how leftists are these days with throwing around baseless accusations.  Let's get the facts first.

Because while you can't control who you fall in love with, you have one gender, the one given to you at birth, and any claims that you are actually from the other gender, or are "trapped" in the body of a male when you are female (or vice-versa), are completely false (and should be cause for concern), and you shouldn't be allowed to surgically change your gender. There's a clear line - you are born one gender, and you shouldn't try to change that gender; it should not at all be condoned by the government under any circumstances.

Weatherboy, you're not going to cancel your way to re-appointing yourself to the Senate. CentristRepublican won't let himself be your chew toy like Wulfric was.* You need to respect the results of the election. The people had their democratic say, and you lost.

*That sounds funny considering you're a furry, lol.

That’s not what I’m trying to do, lol. I’ve pretty well implied that if he doesn’t say that he’s changed that I’d move to expel him from the party, which would completely cut off my path to the senate through those means. You seem to overestimate how much I care about a seat. I care about people like UNL having to deal with this stuff saying that something has to be wrong with them if they feel uncomfortable in their own body.

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

For the record, what did CentristRepublican say that was transphobic?  We know how leftists are these days with throwing around baseless accusations.  Let's get the facts first.

Because while you can't control who you fall in love with, you have one gender, the one given to you at birth, and any claims that you are actually from the other gender, or are "trapped" in the body of a male when you are female (or vice-versa), are completely false (and should be cause for concern), and you shouldn't be allowed to surgically change your gender. There's a clear line - you are born one gender, and you shouldn't try to change that gender; it should not at all be condoned by the government under any circumstances.

Weatherboy, you're not going to cancel your way to re-appointing yourself to the Senate. CentristRepublican won't let himself be your chew toy like Wulfric was.* You need to respect the results of the election. The people had their democratic say, and you lost.

*That sounds funny considering you're a furry, lol.

That’s not what I’m trying to do, lol. I’ve pretty well implied that if he doesn’t say that he’s changed that I’d move to expel him from the party, which would completely cut off my path to the senate through those means. You seem to overestimate how much I care about a seat. I care about people like UNL having to deal with this stuff saying that something has to be wrong with them if they feel uncomfortable in their own body.

Assuming he doesn't see this mess and say f this Im out before you reach that point.

[GM Team Member and Senator WB]

For the record, what did CentristRepublican say that was transphobic?  We know how leftists are these days with throwing around baseless accusations.  Let's get the facts first.

Because while you can't control who you fall in love with, you have one gender, the one given to you at birth, and any claims that you are actually from the other gender, or are "trapped" in the body of a male when you are female (or vice-versa), are completely false (and should be cause for concern), and you shouldn't be allowed to surgically change your gender. There's a clear line - you are born one gender, and you shouldn't try to change that gender; it should not at all be condoned by the government under any circumstances.

Weatherboy, you're not going to cancel your way to re-appointing yourself to the Senate. CentristRepublican won't let himself be your chew toy like Wulfric was.* You need to respect the results of the election. The people had their democratic say, and you lost.

*That sounds funny considering you're a furry, lol.

That’s not what I’m trying to do, lol. I’ve pretty well implied that if he doesn’t say that he’s changed that I’d move to expel him from the party, which would completely cut off my path to the senate through those means. You seem to overestimate how much I care about a seat. I care about people like UNL having to deal with this stuff saying that something has to be wrong with them if they feel uncomfortable in their own body.

Assuming he doesn't see this mess and say f this Im out before you reach that point.

Let me make it clear since y’all seemed to ignore it the first time: I do NOT CARE WHO HE CAUCUSES WITH. I care about whether he still thinks trans people are mentally ill. Anyone is welcome in the party as long as they aren’t bigoted. That’s why we gave wulfric the boot after those comments arose.

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

And I care that we aren't lynching new players out the gate like what happened to Leinad, Clark and rest who were guilty until proven innocent of being a sock by the elitist clique.

[S019]

As someone who is not comfortable with all of CentristRepublican's views and has no stake in this fight at all, I'll just note he's young and naive, however these comments are still disturbing, and he should apologize. Anyways, I do genuinely hope he takes his seat, moderate conservatism is on the decline in Atlasia, emboldened by the rise of the far right as I demonstrated elsewhere, and it is reassuring to see a conservative who only cares about taxes and couldn't care less about stupidity like legalizing assault weapons, banning mask mandates, or whatever else the ""normie"" right is up to these days.

[fhtagn]

As someone who is not comfortable with all of CentristRepublican's views and has no stake in this fight at all, I'll just note he's young and naive, however these comments are still disturbing, and he should apologize. Anyways, I do genuinely hope he takes his seat, moderate conservatism is on the decline in Atlasia, emboldened by the rise of the far right as I demonstrated elsewhere, and it is reassuring to see a conservative who only cares about taxes and couldn't care less about stupidity like legalizing assault weapons, banning mask mandates, or whatever else the ""normie"" right is up to these days.

lol

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

As someone who is not comfortable with all of CentristRepublican's views and has no stake in this fight at all, I'll just note he's young and naive, however these comments are still disturbing, and he should apologize. Anyways, I do genuinely hope he takes his seat, moderate conservatism is on the decline in Atlasia, emboldened by the rise of the far right as I demonstrated elsewhere, and it is reassuring to see a conservative who only cares about taxes and couldn't care less about stupidity like legalizing assault weapons, banning mask mandates, or whatever else the ""normie"" right is up to these days.

The problem with your approach is that is leaves 80% of the right without representation. I am fine with having moderates on the slate and such is necessary but so are conservatives, pro lifers, libertarians and populists.

[OBD]

As someone who is not comfortable with all of CentristRepublican's views and has no stake in this fight at all, I'll just note he's young and naive, however these comments are still disturbing, and he should apologize. Anyways, I do genuinely hope he takes his seat, moderate conservatism is on the decline in Atlasia, emboldened by the rise of the far right as I demonstrated elsewhere, and it is reassuring to see a conservative who only cares about taxes and couldn't care less about stupidity like legalizing assault weapons, banning mask mandates, or whatever else the ""normie"" right is up to these days.

The problem with your approach is that is leaves 80% of the right without representation. I am fine with having moderates on the slate and such is necessary but so are conservatives, pro lifers, libertarians and populists.

That's the point.

[S019]

As someone who is not comfortable with all of CentristRepublican's views and has no stake in this fight at all, I'll just note he's young and naive, however these comments are still disturbing, and he should apologize. Anyways, I do genuinely hope he takes his seat, moderate conservatism is on the decline in Atlasia, emboldened by the rise of the far right as I demonstrated elsewhere, and it is reassuring to see a conservative who only cares about taxes and couldn't care less about stupidity like legalizing assault weapons, banning mask mandates, or whatever else the ""normie"" right is up to these days.

The problem with your approach is that is leaves 80% of the right without representation. I am fine with having moderates on the slate and such is necessary but so are conservatives, pro lifers, libertarians and populists.

Well to begin with, "populism" is not an ideology, parties like VOX and the Swedish Democrats, which identify as right-wing populists are in actuality: ultranationalist and national conservatives. As for conservatives itself, that is such a broad tent, what do you mean?: liberal conservatives? progressive conservatives? paternalistic conservatives? traditionalist conservatives? etc., "pro-lifers" is not a distinct category in-and-of itself, it is merely a descriptor. "Libertarianism" is really the only one of these labels that truly fills a niche and is descriptive enough to justify its own spot. Given the broadness of the conservative movement, you'd need 5 or 6 seats to truly satisfy those conditions.

[At-Large Senator LouisvilleThunder]

S019, if you want true multi-factional politics, why don't you start your own statist neoliberal party and actually leverage your power through your senate voting record?

[S019]

S019, if you want true multi-factional politics, why don't you start your own statist neoliberal party and actually leverage your power through your senate voting record?

I am neither a statist nor a neoliberal. I recognize the state must have some degree of power, and identify as more of a paternalist. As for neoliberalism, I do not support full on supply-side economics, but I do indeed agree with the reforms made during the 1980s and 1990s, which ultimately ended stagflation. I am surely concerned about some regions which are taxing people at 100%, I also do believe the time has come to begin discussing a regional VAT.

[Adam Griffin]

S019, if you want true multi-factional politics, why don't you start your own statist neoliberal party and actually leverage your power through your senate voting record?

2/10

[GM Team Member and Senator WB]

S019, if you want true multi-factional politics, why don't you start your own statist neoliberal party and actually leverage your power through your senate voting record?

I still have a big button in my office that when pressed will reform the AFP to a size it never was before

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

As someone who is not comfortable with all of CentristRepublican's views and has no stake in this fight at all, I'll just note he's young and naive, however these comments are still disturbing, and he should apologize. Anyways, I do genuinely hope he takes his seat, moderate conservatism is on the decline in Atlasia, emboldened by the rise of the far right as I demonstrated elsewhere, and it is reassuring to see a conservative who only cares about taxes and couldn't care less about stupidity like legalizing assault weapons, banning mask mandates, or whatever else the ""normie"" right is up to these days.

The problem with your approach is that is leaves 80% of the right without representation. I am fine with having moderates on the slate and such is necessary but so are conservatives, pro lifers, libertarians and populists.

That's the point.

Ah yes, the old "us and the 'approved opposition" card. And you wonder why i said you were destroying the game on lokcord.

Also that is not how at-large works. You cannot just suppress or shut down a group of people who have the numbers. They will form their own party and run someone or just run as indies and win on the basis of the numbers.

If 11% of the population are Trumpists, guess how many Trumpists will be in At-Large class, class?

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

As someone who is not comfortable with all of CentristRepublican's views and has no stake in this fight at all, I'll just note he's young and naive, however these comments are still disturbing, and he should apologize. Anyways, I do genuinely hope he takes his seat, moderate conservatism is on the decline in Atlasia, emboldened by the rise of the far right as I demonstrated elsewhere, and it is reassuring to see a conservative who only cares about taxes and couldn't care less about stupidity like legalizing assault weapons, banning mask mandates, or whatever else the ""normie"" right is up to these days.

The problem with your approach is that is leaves 80% of the right without representation. I am fine with having moderates on the slate and such is necessary but so are conservatives, pro lifers, libertarians and populists.

Well to begin with, "populism" is not an ideology, parties like VOX and the Swedish Democrats, which identify as right-wing populists are in actuality: ultranationalist and national conservatives. As for conservatives itself, that is such a broad tent, what do you mean?: liberal conservatives? progressive conservatives? paternalistic conservatives? traditionalist conservatives? etc., "pro-lifers" is not a distinct category in-and-of itself, it is merely a descriptor. "Libertarianism" is really the only one of these labels that truly fills a niche and is descriptive enough to justify its own spot. Given the broadness of the conservative movement, you'd need 5 or 6 seats to truly satisfy those conditions.

Oh for the love of crap, spare me this pedantic bs. You know exactly what I mean by populism in this context. Also if said grouping has no support, guess which grouping won't be present in the At-large class, class?

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

S019, if you want true multi-factional politics, why don't you start your own statist neoliberal party and actually leverage your power through your senate voting record?

I am neither a statist.

So I can pump my own gas and build my own front porch now?

[S019]

S019, if you want true multi-factional politics, why don't you start your own statist neoliberal party and actually leverage your power through your senate voting record?

I am neither a statist.

So I can pump my own gas and build my own front porch now?

yes on both counts, though I still prefer the option of having a worker do the gas pumping, since it does create quite a lot of jobs.

[Joseph Cao]

For the record, what did CentristRepublican say that was transphobic?  We know how leftists are these days with throwing around baseless accusations.  Let's get the facts first.

Because while you can't control who you fall in love with, you have one gender, the one given to you at birth, and any claims that you are actually from the other gender, or are "trapped" in the body of a male when you are female (or vice-versa), are completely false (and should be cause for concern), and you shouldn't be allowed to surgically change your gender. There's a clear line - you are born one gender, and you shouldn't try to change that gender; it should not at all be condoned by the government under any circumstances.

Weatherboy, you're not going to cancel your way to re-appointing yourself to the Senate. CentristRepublican won't let himself be your chew toy like Wulfric was.* You need to respect the results of the election. The people had their democratic say, and you lost.

*That sounds funny considering you're a furry, lol.

That’s not what I’m trying to do, lol. I’ve pretty well implied that if he doesn’t say that he’s changed that I’d move to expel him from the party, which would completely cut off my path to the senate through those means. You seem to overestimate how much I care about a seat. I care about people like UNL having to deal with this stuff saying that something has to be wrong with them if they feel uncomfortable in their own body.

Assuming he doesn't see this mess and say f this Im out before you reach that point.

Let me make it clear since y’all seemed to ignore it the first time: I do NOT CARE WHO HE CAUCUSES WITH. I care about whether he still thinks trans people are mentally ill. Anyone is welcome in the party as long as they aren’t bigoted. That’s why we gave wulfric the boot after those comments arose.

CR registered as a DA member only a week after making the quoted comments; those have been a matter of public record for his entire time as a party member. It's one thing to kick out Wulfric immediately after his comments arose, but doing so in a public and seemingly unannounced manner right as a new player is beginning to run for office, et cetera, instead of the four or so months prior when he wasn't (in which there would have been time to actually hash this out without throwing a party member under the bus), is the part of the approach Yankee has been taking objection to.

It wasn't as if this was buried in some Discord channel either – how much more public does it get than the original post on a Political Debate thread?

[S019]

As someone who is not comfortable with all of CentristRepublican's views and has no stake in this fight at all, I'll just note he's young and naive, however these comments are still disturbing, and he should apologize. Anyways, I do genuinely hope he takes his seat, moderate conservatism is on the decline in Atlasia, emboldened by the rise of the far right as I demonstrated elsewhere, and it is reassuring to see a conservative who only cares about taxes and couldn't care less about stupidity like legalizing assault weapons, banning mask mandates, or whatever else the ""normie"" right is up to these days.

The problem with your approach is that is leaves 80% of the right without representation. I am fine with having moderates on the slate and such is necessary but so are conservatives, pro lifers, libertarians and populists.

Well to begin with, "populism" is not an ideology, parties like VOX and the Swedish Democrats, which identify as right-wing populists are in actuality: ultranationalist and national conservatives. As for conservatives itself, that is such a broad tent, what do you mean?: liberal conservatives? progressive conservatives? paternalistic conservatives? traditionalist conservatives? etc., "pro-lifers" is not a distinct category in-and-of itself, it is merely a descriptor. "Libertarianism" is really the only one of these labels that truly fills a niche and is descriptive enough to justify its own spot. Given the broadness of the conservative movement, you'd need 5 or 6 seats to truly satisfy those conditions.

Oh for the love of crap, spare me this pedantic bs. You know exactly what I mean by populism in this context. Also if said grouping has no support, guess which grouping won't be present in the At-large class, class?

well you can still agree not to work with them, which brings me to:

As someone who is not comfortable with all of CentristRepublican's views and has no stake in this fight at all, I'll just note he's young and naive, however these comments are still disturbing, and he should apologize. Anyways, I do genuinely hope he takes his seat, moderate conservatism is on the decline in Atlasia, emboldened by the rise of the far right as I demonstrated elsewhere, and it is reassuring to see a conservative who only cares about taxes and couldn't care less about stupidity like legalizing assault weapons, banning mask mandates, or whatever else the ""normie"" right is up to these days.

The problem with your approach is that is leaves 80% of the right without representation. I am fine with having moderates on the slate and such is necessary but so are conservatives, pro lifers, libertarians and populists.

That's the point.

Ah yes, the old "us and the 'approved opposition" card. And you wonder why i said you were destroying the game on lokcord.

Also that is not how at-large works. You cannot just suppress or shut down a group of people who have the numbers. They will form their own party and run someone or just run as indies and win on the basis of the numbers.

If 11% of the population are Trumpists, guess how many Trumpists will be in At-Large class, class?

And this is why you would establish some form of cordon sanitaire. No cooperation with the far right, they may get elected, but if you make it clear that you won't work with them, then you can indeed reassert your control over the right. People don't like voting for what amounts to little more than a testimonial party.

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

As someone who is not comfortable with all of CentristRepublican's views and has no stake in this fight at all, I'll just note he's young and naive, however these comments are still disturbing, and he should apologize. Anyways, I do genuinely hope he takes his seat, moderate conservatism is on the decline in Atlasia, emboldened by the rise of the far right as I demonstrated elsewhere, and it is reassuring to see a conservative who only cares about taxes and couldn't care less about stupidity like legalizing assault weapons, banning mask mandates, or whatever else the ""normie"" right is up to these days.

The problem with your approach is that is leaves 80% of the right without representation. I am fine with having moderates on the slate and such is necessary but so are conservatives, pro lifers, libertarians and populists.

Well to begin with, "populism" is not an ideology, parties like VOX and the Swedish Democrats, which identify as right-wing populists are in actuality: ultranationalist and national conservatives. As for conservatives itself, that is such a broad tent, what do you mean?: liberal conservatives? progressive conservatives? paternalistic conservatives? traditionalist conservatives? etc., "pro-lifers" is not a distinct category in-and-of itself, it is merely a descriptor. "Libertarianism" is really the only one of these labels that truly fills a niche and is descriptive enough to justify its own spot. Given the broadness of the conservative movement, you'd need 5 or 6 seats to truly satisfy those conditions.

Oh for the love of crap, spare me this pedantic bs. You know exactly what I mean by populism in this context. Also if said grouping has no support, guess which grouping won't be present in the At-large class, class?

well you can still agree not to work with them, which brings me to:

As someone who is not comfortable with all of CentristRepublican's views and has no stake in this fight at all, I'll just note he's young and naive, however these comments are still disturbing, and he should apologize. Anyways, I do genuinely hope he takes his seat, moderate conservatism is on the decline in Atlasia, emboldened by the rise of the far right as I demonstrated elsewhere, and it is reassuring to see a conservative who only cares about taxes and couldn't care less about stupidity like legalizing assault weapons, banning mask mandates, or whatever else the ""normie"" right is up to these days.

The problem with your approach is that is leaves 80% of the right without representation. I am fine with having moderates on the slate and such is necessary but so are conservatives, pro lifers, libertarians and populists.

That's the point.

Ah yes, the old "us and the 'approved opposition" card. And you wonder why i said you were destroying the game on lokcord.

Also that is not how at-large works. You cannot just suppress or shut down a group of people who have the numbers. They will form their own party and run someone or just run as indies and win on the basis of the numbers.

If 11% of the population are Trumpists, guess how many Trumpists will be in At-Large class, class?

And this is why you would establish some form of cordon sanitaire. No cooperation with the far right, they may get elected, but if you make it clear that you won't work with them, then you can indeed reassert your control over the right. People don't like voting for what amounts to little more than a testimonial party.

Its game S019, everything about it is testimonial. Sometimes I think you guys forget that in your rush to incinerate everyone whose views don't match your own.