Sweden election 2022
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Mike88
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« Reply #375 on: October 14, 2022, 09:49:09 AM »

I find it kind of hilarious that the party coming in 3rd now is about the win the premiership while the woman who came in a clear 1st will lose that position. And despite having gained votes for her party. Why is there not some form of grand coalition to keep SDs out of power?

Seems like a lot of standard conservative/center-right parties in Europe have become useful idiots for the far-right. I don't want to make parallels to the Third Reich here, but back then the conservatives also thought they could control the extreme right.

It's not that unusual for a 3rd party to reach the premiership in some European countries. In 1982, in Sweden, the Center party polled 3rd but got the premiership. In Denmark, 1968, the Social Liberals polled 4th and also got the Prime Minister office. The same happen, also in Denmark, in 1973 and in 2015, Venstre polled 3rd got the top job. In Norway, 1965, the Center party polled 4th and got the premiership, which was again repeated in 1969. In 1997 and 2001, the 3rd party also got the top job. There may be also examples in other countries, like Finland.

Clarko, what are the main disagreements of some Liberal MPs to this agreement? Is it more an image thing, rather than content?
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Oryxslayer
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« Reply #376 on: October 14, 2022, 09:50:29 AM »

I find it kind of hilarious that the party coming in 3rd now is about the win the premiership while the woman who came in a clear 1st will lose that position. And despite having gained votes for her party. Why is there not some form of grand coalition to keep SDs out of power?

Seems like a lot of standard conservative/center-right parties in Europe have become useful idiots for the far-right. I don't want to make parallels to the Third Reich here, but back then the conservatives also thought they could control the extreme right.

The danger of Block politics. Historically the strength of the Labor/Social Democratic/Socialist parties in Scandinavia meant that it was everyone against them. Block politics emerged so as to keep everyone else in line and prevent defections to support their collective enemy.

Two things have happened since then. The first is the decline of the dominant workers parties. This is just the decline of traditional socialization networks, the rise of the internet, and new generations wanting new issues - a process occurring in every system but most visible in PR ones. SAP in the old days for example was called a dominant Party of Power by Political Scientists, comparable to the Liberal Democrats in Japan. Change however has simply left them the biggest fish in the pond.

The second thing is more recent - the rise of anti-immigrant right. Block politics has proven woefully inadequate to combating this threat. Block politics means that once you are considered 'part' of the block, you are effectively recognized by all other members of the block. Said party acknowledges the  overall goals and leadership in exchange for getting their influence over the Blocks governments. This means that despite the system being PR, the alignment is of a duopoly, so all actions are effectively zero-sum.

Compare the AfD in Germany to the Sweden Democrats. Both parties have seen massive growth since 2010 and initially remained behind a electoral cordon. However, the zero-sum nature of Block politics meant that the collective agreement for one block to support the other via confidence and ignore the Sweden Democrats could not last. It started at the the local level but after 2018 the Blocks realigned so that the Sweden Democrats ended up inside the Blue Block. Meanwhile, in Germany, the AfD remains a pariah at all levels of government. The Union and FDP have better prospects individually maintaining the cordon rather then making a  Block with them, and so the AfD is ostracized.
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Helsinkian
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« Reply #377 on: October 14, 2022, 10:00:49 AM »

Compare the AfD in Germany to the Sweden Democrats. Both parties have seen massive growth since 2010 and initially remained behind a electoral cordon. However, the zero-sum nature of Block politics meant that the collective agreement for one block to support the other via confidence and ignore the Sweden Democrats could not last. It started at the the local level but after 2018 the Blocks realigned so that the Sweden Democrats ended up inside the Blue Block. Meanwhile, in Germany, the AfD remains a pariah at all levels of government. The Union and FDP have better prospects individually maintaining the cordon rather then making a  Block with them, and so the AfD is ostracized.

Germany also has a tradition of the "Grosse Koalition", which Sweden lacks. Practically no one in Sweden was even considering the possibility of an S and M coalition.
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Person Man
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« Reply #378 on: October 14, 2022, 10:10:17 AM »

Annnnnnd we have an agreement. Details still forthcoming but here is what I have so far:

It is called the "Tidö Agreement" because it was negotiated at Tidö Castle outside Stockholm. Looks like L has completely caved to SD in the end. The government will be M + KD + L, with SD as a support party

  • The increased A-kassa unemployment benefits that were instituted during the pandemic will stay
  • Nuclear power will be expanded, with up to 400 billion SEK in government financing guarantees
  • Increased requirements for citizenship.
  • The number of quota refugees is to be reduced from 6,400 last year to 900
  • The right to asylum must be protected, but also limited in relation to today
  • Sweden's legislation for receiving asylum must be adapted so as not to be more generous than is the obligation according to EU law.
  • Strongly reduced labor immigration
  • Investigation into how voluntary return migration can be encouraged.
  • There should be an investigation which must analyze the conditions for reintroducing the possibility of deporting foreigners who show a lack of character, such as a lack of compliance with the rules such as crime, prostitution, abuse and participation in violent organizations
  • A national census will take place
  • The energy policy goal is changed from 100 percent "renewable" to 100 percent fossil-free
  • An investigation into the restart of Ringhals 1 and 2 will be carried out quickly
  • KD gets through its points on healthcare, which include an investigation on the nationalization of the healthcare system from the regions, expanding primary care, investigating the inclusion of dental care, special investments in cancer and childhood cancer care, including aftercare and rehabilitation, and a plan about childbirth standards and services
  • A new independent school law is to be introduced
  • Teaching time must be increased and the school's governing documents (curricula, course plans and subject plans) reformed and given increased focus on learning, skills and factual and subject knowledge
  • A knowledge-focused grading system is introduced to stop problems with grade inflation
  • Profit distribution must not occur in the first years after a school is started or bought by a new owner.
  • Major subsidy reform with, among other things allowance ceiling and activity requirements for those living on welfare.
  • The tax on work is reduced with a focus on low and middle income earners.
  • Reduced tax on pensions and savings
  • The independence of the public service media must remain and its long-term funding maintained
  • Measures are taken to reduce the political control of cultural content.


Overall a marked shift to the right but relatively tame. SD gets what it wanted on immigration, while L completely caved. In turn, L gets its way on education and media. KD gets its healthcare proposals, M gets tax cuts. L and KD maintain the current levels of foreign aid. M, SD, and KD get their crime proposals. Defense policy is unanimous.

Of course, many of these are agreements in principle and the devil is always in the details. There are many proposals for parliamentary investigations into pet issues, but an investigation does not automatically mean a party gets an actual law through.

It will be interesting to see how the Liberal voter base reacts to this. Basically their behavior over the past few years has shown they cannot be trusted in what they say, and they always cave in the end. It will also be interesting to see if the parliamentary group accepts this; this is a major concession to SD and just a few weeks ago, three of their members defected in an anonymous vote and they only need two to defeat Kristersson on Monday. They basically agreed to sell out entirely on SD influence, immigration & refugees, and even welfare cuts. And what do they get in return? Some scraps on education and media.

This actually feels like a Kotek or Youngkinesque sort of deal with a welcome emphasis on nuclear infrastructure.
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Filuwaúrdjan
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« Reply #379 on: October 14, 2022, 10:29:04 AM »

Scandinavian societies before the emergence of the social democratic parties were as marked by brutal class divisions as Britain was, even if it manifested itself a little differently. They aren't like that now, not at all, but these things leave certain legacies. As such, relations between S and M are about as bad as between Labour and the Tories here and for the same reasons.
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TheDeadFlagBlues
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« Reply #380 on: October 14, 2022, 10:44:43 AM »

Scandinavian societies before the emergence of the social democratic parties were as marked by brutal class divisions as Britain was, even if it manifested itself a little differently. They aren't like that now, not at all, but these things leave certain legacies. As such, relations between S and M are about as bad as between Labour and the Tories here and for the same reasons.

As a reminder to everyone here, we now know that a M party activist from a respectable background and with a respectable job assassinated Olaf Palme. Sweden was, if anything, more, not less, politically polarized than the UK...
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Clarko95 📚💰📈
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« Reply #381 on: October 14, 2022, 11:05:26 AM »
« Edited: October 17, 2022, 06:28:40 AM by Clarko95 📚💰📈 »

The Liberal Youth Wing urges a "no" vote on Kristersson on Monday.


Speaking of which, here is the schedule now:

  • The proposal for a Prime Ministerial vote was tabled this afternoon for the first time after Kristersson informed the Speaker that he believes he has a government agreement
  • Tomorrow, Saturday, the motion must be tabled for a second time
  • The Prime Ministerial vote will be held at 11 in the morning on Monday
  • If Kristersson is elected without a majority against, he will make his government declaration in the Riksdag and present his government ministers
  • Likely on Tuesday, he will meet with the King at the Royal Palace in Stockholm at the so-called "Probate Council", a type of government meeting over which the King presides. The Speaker presents that PM candidate to the King, and the King then announces that a transition of power has taken place
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Kahane's Grave Is A Gender-Neutral Bathroom
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« Reply #382 on: October 14, 2022, 11:31:36 AM »

Excellent platform, no complaints.
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Aurelius
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« Reply #383 on: October 14, 2022, 11:42:38 AM »
« Edited: October 14, 2022, 11:52:12 AM by Aurelius »

I find it kind of hilarious that the party coming in 3rd now is about the win the premiership while the woman who came in a clear 1st will lose that position. And despite having gained votes for her party. Why is there not some form of grand coalition to keep SDs out of power?

Seems like a lot of standard conservative/center-right parties in Europe have become useful idiots for the far-right. I don't want to make parallels to the Third Reich here, but back then the conservatives also thought they could control the extreme right.

There's really nothing extreme-right about today's SD. They're easily the most moderate of the European parties that are commonly labeled far-right. If they were like AfD in Germany I'm sure it would be a very different matter.
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« Reply #384 on: October 14, 2022, 03:19:53 PM »

The SD isn't that right wing compared to parties like the AfD, and the PM is more moderate still. This is an important moment to protect the LGBT+ community, women, Jews, and integrated immigrants.
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crals
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« Reply #385 on: October 14, 2022, 03:25:22 PM »

The issue with SD seems to be mostly its unsavoury history. Or was the cooperation of the center-right with New Democracy in the 90s also this controverial?
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Swedish Rainbow Capitalist Cheese
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« Reply #386 on: October 14, 2022, 03:32:22 PM »
« Edited: October 14, 2022, 03:36:27 PM by Swedish Rainbow Capitalist Cheese »

Expressen reports one Liberal MP, Anna Starbrink, is already a no. They can only afford two defections otherwise there would be a majority against the agreement.

I think you've read that wrong. She's said she'll vote to approve the new government but will vote against some of the policies outlined in the agreement when they're introduced to parliament. 

Clarko, what are the main disagreements of some Liberal MPs to this agreement? Is it more an image thing, rather than content?

I'm not Clarko, but the disagreements mostly has to do with the new very restrictive immigration policies and law and order measures. The Liberals have historically been very immigration and refugee friendly and many of the party's members and politicians are at heart pro-immigration. The reduction from Sweden today taking 6400 contingent refugees per year to only the 900 per year according to the agreement is one of the things that have been most heavily criticized.

The reduction of foreign aid and the lack environmental policies (besides more nuclear power) are other sensitive areas to the Liberals.   

The issue with SD seems to be mostly its unsavoury history. Or was the cooperation of the center-right with New Democracy in the 90s also this controverial?

Yes and no... the then Liberal party leader Bengt Westerberg famously refused to sit on the same couch as them during election night coverage in 1991 and Carl Bildt and Alf Svensson had to negotiate with New Democracy in secret as not to upset Westerberg.
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If my soul was made of stone
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« Reply #387 on: October 14, 2022, 03:50:09 PM »

The SD isn't that right wing compared to parties like the AfD, and the PM is more moderate still. This is an important moment to protect the LGBT+ community, women, Jews, and integrated immigrants.

what exactly would sd do to benefit any of those groups
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𝕭𝖆𝖕𝖙𝖎𝖘𝖙𝖆 𝕸𝖎𝖓𝖔𝖑𝖆
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« Reply #388 on: October 15, 2022, 03:25:01 AM »

The SD isn't that right wing compared to parties like the AfD, and the PM is more moderate still. This is an important moment to protect the LGBT+ community, women, Jews, and integrated immigrants.

what exactly would sd do to benefit any of those groups

They would protect LGBT+ people from the horde of scary Muslims secret homophobes who consider it a western perversion inside V, women from the horde of scary Muslims patriarchal apologists for forced marriages inside V, Jews from the horde of scary Muslims crazy Méluchistes/Corbynites inside V and integrated immigrants from the horde of scary Muslims gang criminals who refuse to integrate inside V. Of course.
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Aurelius
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« Reply #389 on: October 15, 2022, 03:44:17 PM »

The SD isn't that right wing compared to parties like the AfD, and the PM is more moderate still. This is an important moment to protect the LGBT+ community, women, Jews, and integrated immigrants.

what exactly would sd do to benefit any of those groups
Get rid of the people firebombing Sweden's synagogues, for one thing...
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Kahane's Grave Is A Gender-Neutral Bathroom
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« Reply #390 on: October 15, 2022, 07:39:46 PM »

The SD isn't that right wing compared to parties like the AfD, and the PM is more moderate still. This is an important moment to protect the LGBT+ community, women, Jews, and integrated immigrants.

what exactly would sd do to benefit any of those groups

They would protect LGBT+ people from the horde of scary Muslims secret homophobes who consider it a western perversion inside V, women from the horde of scary Muslims patriarchal apologists for forced marriages inside V, Jews from the horde of scary Muslims crazy Méluchistes/Corbynites inside V and integrated immigrants from the horde of scary Muslims gang criminals who refuse to integrate inside V. Of course.

I don’t hate Muslims. But Islamic immigrants to Sweden are a lot different to Muslims in the US. If you immigrate to the US, you most certainly don’t think of the US as a empire of infidels or whatever. You can go to Sweden and think that. This is also why rape statistics among Muslims in the US are the same if not lower than the non-Muslim populace, while the stats for Muslims in Sweden (and Norway too, for that matter) are much higher. Hell, Osama Bin Laden lives in Sweden for a while.

These non-integrationists also harm migrants who do want to adapt to Scandinavian society. They are also more conservative, with over 50% of Muslim migrants in the UK supporting Sharia Law. In countries like Sweden- where support for the LGBTQ+ community is standard across the political spectrum- these people can make up the majority of violent homophobes.

But I very much support refugees and immigrants who do want to integrate- half my mandatory service hours I need to graduate were spent preparing food and assistance for Afghan refugees, for instance.
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« Reply #391 on: October 15, 2022, 09:21:33 PM »

Why are the first 100 comments on Kristersson’s Instagram post spamming Hedi Freid?
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If my soul was made of stone
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« Reply #392 on: October 15, 2022, 09:48:36 PM »

Why are the first 100 comments on Kristersson’s Instagram post spamming Hedi Freid?

https://www.jpost.com/omg/article-719764
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parochial boy
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« Reply #393 on: October 16, 2022, 07:46:16 AM »

The SD isn't that right wing compared to parties like the AfD, and the PM is more moderate still. This is an important moment to protect the LGBT+ community, women, Jews, and integrated immigrants.

what exactly would sd do to benefit any of those groups

They would protect LGBT+ people from the horde of scary Muslims secret homophobes who consider it a western perversion inside V, women from the horde of scary Muslims patriarchal apologists for forced marriages inside V, Jews from the horde of scary Muslims crazy Méluchistes/Corbynites inside V and integrated immigrants from the horde of scary Muslims gang criminals who refuse to integrate inside V. Of course.

I don’t hate Muslims. But Islamic immigrants to Sweden are a lot different to Muslims in the US. If you immigrate to the US, you most certainly don’t think of the US as a empire of infidels or whatever. You can go to Sweden and think that. This is also why rape statistics among Muslims in the US are the same if not lower than the non-Muslim populace, while the stats for Muslims in Sweden (and Norway too, for that matter) are much higher. Hell, Osama Bin Laden lives in Sweden for a while.

These non-integrationists also harm migrants who do want to adapt to Scandinavian society. They are also more conservative, with over 50% of Muslim migrants in the UK supporting Sharia Law. In countries like Sweden- where support for the LGBTQ+ community is standard across the political spectrum- these people can make up the majority of violent homophobes.

But I very much support refugees and immigrants who do want to integrate- half my mandatory service hours I need to graduate were spent preparing food and assistance for Afghan refugees, for instance.

This is pretty much the standard position of European far right parties, yes. Which you might want to take into consideration in the future.

And funnily enough, these parties are typically infested with antisemitism, misogyny and LGBT-phobia because, shock revelation, people who are bigoted tend to have bigoted views on any issues.
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Kahane's Grave Is A Gender-Neutral Bathroom
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« Reply #394 on: October 16, 2022, 08:47:10 AM »

The SD isn't that right wing compared to parties like the AfD, and the PM is more moderate still. This is an important moment to protect the LGBT+ community, women, Jews, and integrated immigrants.

what exactly would sd do to benefit any of those groups

They would protect LGBT+ people from the horde of scary Muslims secret homophobes who consider it a western perversion inside V, women from the horde of scary Muslims patriarchal apologists for forced marriages inside V, Jews from the horde of scary Muslims crazy Méluchistes/Corbynites inside V and integrated immigrants from the horde of scary Muslims gang criminals who refuse to integrate inside V. Of course.

I don’t hate Muslims. But Islamic immigrants to Sweden are a lot different to Muslims in the US. If you immigrate to the US, you most certainly don’t think of the US as a empire of infidels or whatever. You can go to Sweden and think that. This is also why rape statistics among Muslims in the US are the same if not lower than the non-Muslim populace, while the stats for Muslims in Sweden (and Norway too, for that matter) are much higher. Hell, Osama Bin Laden lives in Sweden for a while.

These non-integrationists also harm migrants who do want to adapt to Scandinavian society. They are also more conservative, with over 50% of Muslim migrants in the UK supporting Sharia Law. In countries like Sweden- where support for the LGBTQ+ community is standard across the political spectrum- these people can make up the majority of violent homophobes.

But I very much support refugees and immigrants who do want to integrate- half my mandatory service hours I need to graduate were spent preparing food and assistance for Afghan refugees, for instance.

This is pretty much the standard position of European far right parties, yes. Which you might want to take into consideration in the future.

And funnily enough, these parties are typically infested with antisemitism, misogyny and LGBT-phobia because, shock revelation, people who are bigoted tend to have bigoted views on any issues.

The far right hates immigration because they hate Muslims because they are racist. I am merely concerned with the destruction of the tolerant, welcoming society that exists in Sweden and Scandinavia at large.

Shock revelation, when you come from a country where being gay is punishable by death and where 98%+ of the population have a negative opinion of Jews, you don’t leave said views when you arrive in Sweden.

On the contrary, integrated Muslims in Europe and virtually all Muslims in the US are some of the biggest contributors to society.
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Aurelius
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« Reply #395 on: October 16, 2022, 10:28:30 AM »
« Edited: October 16, 2022, 10:35:52 AM by Aurelius »

The SD isn't that right wing compared to parties like the AfD, and the PM is more moderate still. This is an important moment to protect the LGBT+ community, women, Jews, and integrated immigrants.

what exactly would sd do to benefit any of those groups

They would protect LGBT+ people from the horde of scary Muslims secret homophobes who consider it a western perversion inside V, women from the horde of scary Muslims patriarchal apologists for forced marriages inside V, Jews from the horde of scary Muslims crazy Méluchistes/Corbynites inside V and integrated immigrants from the horde of scary Muslims gang criminals who refuse to integrate inside V. Of course.

I don’t hate Muslims. But Islamic immigrants to Sweden are a lot different to Muslims in the US. If you immigrate to the US, you most certainly don’t think of the US as a empire of infidels or whatever. You can go to Sweden and think that. This is also why rape statistics among Muslims in the US are the same if not lower than the non-Muslim populace, while the stats for Muslims in Sweden (and Norway too, for that matter) are much higher. Hell, Osama Bin Laden lives in Sweden for a while.

These non-integrationists also harm migrants who do want to adapt to Scandinavian society. They are also more conservative, with over 50% of Muslim migrants in the UK supporting Sharia Law. In countries like Sweden- where support for the LGBTQ+ community is standard across the political spectrum- these people can make up the majority of violent homophobes.

But I very much support refugees and immigrants who do want to integrate- half my mandatory service hours I need to graduate were spent preparing food and assistance for Afghan refugees, for instance.

This is pretty much the standard position of European far right parties, yes. Which you might want to take into consideration in the future.

And funnily enough, these parties are typically infested with antisemitism, misogyny and LGBT-phobia because, shock revelation, people who are bigoted tend to have bigoted views on any issues.

Exactly, thank you for reminding me even more why I am a fan of SD. This makes those parties good, at least on that front. The guilt by association crap doesn't work on me. "These groups that I consider ~problematic~ share your views." Cool. I don't care if you consider them problematic. That's exactly why (at least in the case of SD) I support them! Believe it or not, as a Jew I care more about my synagogue not being bombed than the welfare of the people bombing it!

I am not obligated to welcome people who hate me and want to destroy my way of life out of some vacuous, self-destructive left-liberalism.

(and of course, SD is nothing like AfD or even RN. This is relevant too)
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Filuwaúrdjan
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« Reply #396 on: October 16, 2022, 10:43:16 AM »

Yes, it's a well-known fact that people associated with European far and extreme Right movements never attack synagogues.

Anyway, while the worst and most violent antisemitic incidents in Sweden over the past few decades have been carried out by immigrants, antisemitic remarks from Sweden Democrat politicians have been, to say the least, frequent and nothing serious has been done by the party to address this. While it is true that they're hardly the only Swedish party to have had senior figures say awful things about Jews over the past twenty years (a fact that should embarrass everyone else if you ask me, but that's another story), I do not think that lionizing them over this issue is honest or sensible.
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MaxQue
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« Reply #397 on: October 16, 2022, 11:16:00 AM »

The SD isn't that right wing compared to parties like the AfD, and the PM is more moderate still. This is an important moment to protect the LGBT+ community, women, Jews, and integrated immigrants.

what exactly would sd do to benefit any of those groups

They would protect LGBT+ people from the horde of scary Muslims secret homophobes who consider it a western perversion inside V, women from the horde of scary Muslims patriarchal apologists for forced marriages inside V, Jews from the horde of scary Muslims crazy Méluchistes/Corbynites inside V and integrated immigrants from the horde of scary Muslims gang criminals who refuse to integrate inside V. Of course.

I don’t hate Muslims. But Islamic immigrants to Sweden are a lot different to Muslims in the US. If you immigrate to the US, you most certainly don’t think of the US as a empire of infidels or whatever. You can go to Sweden and think that. This is also why rape statistics among Muslims in the US are the same if not lower than the non-Muslim populace, while the stats for Muslims in Sweden (and Norway too, for that matter) are much higher. Hell, Osama Bin Laden lives in Sweden for a while.

These non-integrationists also harm migrants who do want to adapt to Scandinavian society. They are also more conservative, with over 50% of Muslim migrants in the UK supporting Sharia Law. In countries like Sweden- where support for the LGBTQ+ community is standard across the political spectrum- these people can make up the majority of violent homophobes.

But I very much support refugees and immigrants who do want to integrate- half my mandatory service hours I need to graduate were spent preparing food and assistance for Afghan refugees, for instance.

This is pretty much the standard position of European far right parties, yes. Which you might want to take into consideration in the future.

And funnily enough, these parties are typically infested with antisemitism, misogyny and LGBT-phobia because, shock revelation, people who are bigoted tend to have bigoted views on any issues.

Exactly, thank you for reminding me even more why I am a fan of SD. This makes those parties good, at least on that front. The guilt by association crap doesn't work on me. "These groups that I consider ~problematic~ share your views." Cool. I don't care if you consider them problematic. That's exactly why (at least in the case of SD) I support them! Believe it or not, as a Jew I care more about my synagogue not being bombed than the welfare of the people bombing it!

I am not obligated to welcome people who hate me and want to destroy my way of life out of some vacuous, self-destructive left-liberalism.

(and of course, SD is nothing like AfD or even RN. This is relevant too)

Then why do you support replacing which a group that would bomb your synagogue by another one who would do the same thing (but be white instead of brown)?
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Aurelius
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« Reply #398 on: October 16, 2022, 06:14:10 PM »
« Edited: October 16, 2022, 06:18:22 PM by Aurelius »

The SD isn't that right wing compared to parties like the AfD, and the PM is more moderate still. This is an important moment to protect the LGBT+ community, women, Jews, and integrated immigrants.

what exactly would sd do to benefit any of those groups

They would protect LGBT+ people from the horde of scary Muslims secret homophobes who consider it a western perversion inside V, women from the horde of scary Muslims patriarchal apologists for forced marriages inside V, Jews from the horde of scary Muslims crazy Méluchistes/Corbynites inside V and integrated immigrants from the horde of scary Muslims gang criminals who refuse to integrate inside V. Of course.

I don’t hate Muslims. But Islamic immigrants to Sweden are a lot different to Muslims in the US. If you immigrate to the US, you most certainly don’t think of the US as a empire of infidels or whatever. You can go to Sweden and think that. This is also why rape statistics among Muslims in the US are the same if not lower than the non-Muslim populace, while the stats for Muslims in Sweden (and Norway too, for that matter) are much higher. Hell, Osama Bin Laden lives in Sweden for a while.

These non-integrationists also harm migrants who do want to adapt to Scandinavian society. They are also more conservative, with over 50% of Muslim migrants in the UK supporting Sharia Law. In countries like Sweden- where support for the LGBTQ+ community is standard across the political spectrum- these people can make up the majority of violent homophobes.

But I very much support refugees and immigrants who do want to integrate- half my mandatory service hours I need to graduate were spent preparing food and assistance for Afghan refugees, for instance.

This is pretty much the standard position of European far right parties, yes. Which you might want to take into consideration in the future.

And funnily enough, these parties are typically infested with antisemitism, misogyny and LGBT-phobia because, shock revelation, people who are bigoted tend to have bigoted views on any issues.

Exactly, thank you for reminding me even more why I am a fan of SD. This makes those parties good, at least on that front. The guilt by association crap doesn't work on me. "These groups that I consider ~problematic~ share your views." Cool. I don't care if you consider them problematic. That's exactly why (at least in the case of SD) I support them! Believe it or not, as a Jew I care more about my synagogue not being bombed than the welfare of the people bombing it!

I am not obligated to welcome people who hate me and want to destroy my way of life out of some vacuous, self-destructive left-liberalism.

(and of course, SD is nothing like AfD or even RN. This is relevant too)

Then why do you support replacing which a group that would bomb your synagogue by another one who would do the same thing (but be white instead of brown)?

I don't. First off, SD is not what it was even two decades ago. In the last election before Jimmie Akesson took control of the party, SD got 1.4% of the vote. Now they're at 20.5% of the vote. Even if we pretend none of those pre-Akesson SD supporters have died or switched parties, they make up a mere 7% of the party's current support base. So no, they are not a group that would bomb my (hypothetical, since I'm not Swedish) synagogue, nor are they full of people who would cheer on such a thing. Not all European "far-right" parties are alike. AfD, for example, easily deserves that label, is incredibly extreme, and no failing of mainstream politicians makes them worth supporting. Calling SD far-right is absolutely laughable, and I suspect the main reason people still do so is because it's an effective scare tactic which implicitly causes people to think of them in the same lines as Golden Dawn and the post-2016 AfD.

And much more importantly, SD is the only party that has truly taken seriously the country's insane mishandling of the refugee situation. Other European countries have done a much better job of handling this. Sweden has not! It's hard to seriously vet people, or even make real attempts at integrating them, when you're in refugees equivalent to more than 1.5% of your population a year. That's equivalent to a population growth of 16% over a decade, entirely of people from countries where they are brainwashed from birth to hate people of my religion and where enormous majorities support the prescribed sharia punishments for people of my sexual orientation. It's easy for Americans in particular to forget this, because we have this thing called the ocean separating us from Afro-Eurasia, so we get an entirely different set of Muslim immigrants who are very different than the ones Sweden is getting.

For a long time the center and left were telling everyone you see nothing, you're racist, keep calm, carry on while gang warfare was skyrocketing and my coreligionists' houses of worship were attacked. Not even a year ago the government tried to arrest researchers who stumbled onto the (glaringly obvious) correlation between the surge of migrants and the crime spike! Sweden needs a massive course correction and SD can and will provide it.
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« Reply #399 on: October 16, 2022, 11:57:47 PM »

yaewasbbftieb
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