2004 User Predictions - Discussion

[??????????]

Change will need to start in the Mosques as well. They have to try to get away from the parts of their Koran that are violent. Anyone who says that Islam is the religion of "peace" are flat out lying to themselves.

The Koran is about as violent as the Bible, i think. It's all a mtter of interpretation. Look at the inqustion.

Do I need to put up all the links about the Islamic beleif system again?\

Christianity is no where near as violent as Islam.

[Gustaf]

Change will need to start in the Mosques as well. They have to try to get away from the parts of their Koran that are violent. Anyone who says that Islam is the religion of "peace" are flat out lying to themselves.

The Koran is about as violent as the Bible, i think. It's all a mtter of interpretation. Look at the inqustion.

Do I need to put up all the links about the Islamic beleif system again?\

Christianity is no where near as violent as Islam.

That's mostly due to how we choose to interpret it. Look at the OT, it's pretty violent. The Koran mostly consists of the Bible anyway.

[??????????]

Violent in the sense of Caine and Abel and stories of Sodom and Gomorrah. But the bible, especially the NT does not encourage violence against those who dont believe. The Koran is not "like the bible anyway". Their are many many differences. Jesus is just a prophet and not the son of God in the Koran. Many differences.

[Gustaf]

Violent in the sense of Caine and Abel and stories of Sodom and Gomorrah. But the bible, especially the NT does not encourage violence against those who dont beleive.

And the Koran does?

[dunn]

Violent in the sense of Caine and Abel and stories of Sodom and Gomorrah. But the bible, especially the NT does not encourage violence against those who dont beleive.

And the Koran does?

Yes
very much so

[Gustaf]

Violent in the sense of Caine and Abel and stories of Sodom and Gomorrah. But the bible, especially the NT does not encourage violence against those who dont beleive.

And the Koran does?

Yes
very much so

I'd like at least a quote to back that up...

[dunn]

Violent in the sense of Caine and Abel and stories of Sodom and Gomorrah. But the bible, especially the NT does not encourage violence against those who dont beleive.

And the Koran does?

Yes
very much so

I'd like at least a quote to back that up...

statesrights put it here couple of times
check the thread

[Gustaf]

Violent in the sense of Caine and Abel and stories of Sodom and Gomorrah. But the bible, especially the NT does not encourage violence against those who dont beleive.

And the Koran does?

Yes
very much so

I'd like at least a quote to back that up...

statesrights put it here couple of times
check the thread

I can't find it in the last 5 pages or so.

[dunn]

Violent in the sense of Caine and Abel and stories of Sodom and Gomorrah. But the bible, especially the NT does not encourage violence against those who dont beleive.

And the Koran does?

Yes
very much so

I'd like at least a quote to back that up...

statesrights put it here couple of times
check the thread

I can't find it in the last 5 pages or so.

statesrights please help Gus

[??????????]

OK I will repost some of them again :

http://www.bible.ca/islam/islam-kills-myth-of-toleration.htm

http://www.bible.ca/islam/islam-kills-pact-of-umar.htm

http://www.bible.ca/islam/islam-kills-not-peaceful.htm

[dunn]

OK I will repost some of them again :

http://www.bible.ca/islam/islam-kills-myth-of-toleration.htm

http://www.bible.ca/islam/islam-kills-pact-of-umar.htm

http://www.bible.ca/islam/islam-kills-not-peaceful.htm

thank you

[??????????]

Their is so so much to that website I can't begin to post it all, lol.

[Gustaf]

OK I will repost some of them again :

http://www.bible.ca/islam/islam-kills-myth-of-toleration.htm

http://www.bible.ca/islam/islam-kills-pact-of-umar.htm

http://www.bible.ca/islam/islam-kills-not-peaceful.htm

thank you

I read the first one. Not to be offenseive, but the site seems a little weird...I now that the Koran can be interpreted to be violent. Now, to point at a few facts:

1. Throughout mediaeval times, most Muslim countries were relatively tolerant, espeically Turkey, a country long renowned for religious tolerance.

2. European Christians throughout most of this time was extremely intolerant, especially in Spain, and persecuted, not only non-Christians, but all who believed in the wrong brand of Christianity relentlessly.

I am not defending Muslim fundamentalism. I am fully aware of the fact that mainstream Islam today preaches violence, etc. But I don't think this is a necessary part of their religion, it's a stage that they will leave when they become more secular, just like we've done in the Western world.

[??????????]

Here is what they are about. This is about where I stand in my religious beliefs.

http://www.bible.ca/seek-about.htm

[Gustaf]

Here is what they are about. This is about where I stand in my religious beliefs.

http://www.bible.ca/seek-about.htm

Sounds like Jmfcst's church...I'd rather to go someone unbiased for opinion on a religious document though.

[Siege40]

I cannot believe what I'm hearing! You can't calously talk about changing a religion. You can't merely go, "Ya, well I don't like this or that, so let's chang it." This is the faith a people, you can't rewrite the religion. Mohammad was, from what I understand, a warrior. Therefore there will likely always be a strain of violence. The goal is to elminate the extremists, not the religion. That's my opinion, I don't know, I just figure if someone came in and wanted to root out a branch of Christianity a lot of people would have something to say. This will only spread hatred not peace.

Siege40

[Gustaf]

I cannot believe what I'm hearing! You can't calously talk about changing a religion. You can't merely go, "Ya, well I don't like this or that, so let's chang it." This is the faith a people, you can't rewrite the religion. Mohammad was, from what I understand, a warrior. Therefore there will likely always be a strain of violence. The goal is to elminate the extremists, not the religion. That's my opinion, I don't know, I just figure if someone came in and wanted to root out a branch of Christianity a lot of people would have something to say. This will only spread hatred not peace.

Siege40

Of course they can, they're Americans...

[opebo]

I cannot believe what I'm hearing! You can't calously talk about changing a religion. You can't merely go, "Ya, well I don't like this or that, so let's chang it." This is the faith a people, you can't rewrite the religion. Mohammad was, from what I understand, a warrior. Therefore there will likely always be a strain of violence. The goal is to elminate the extremists, not the religion. That's my opinion, I don't know, I just figure if someone came in and wanted to root out a branch of Christianity a lot of people would have something to say. This will only spread hatred not peace.

Siege40

Well, if they insist on being 'warriors', then the only option is to fight them.  I think we can win easily.

[Gustaf]

I cannot believe what I'm hearing! You can't calously talk about changing a religion. You can't merely go, "Ya, well I don't like this or that, so let's chang it." This is the faith a people, you can't rewrite the religion. Mohammad was, from what I understand, a warrior. Therefore there will likely always be a strain of violence. The goal is to elminate the extremists, not the religion. That's my opinion, I don't know, I just figure if someone came in and wanted to root out a branch of Christianity a lot of people would have something to say. This will only spread hatred not peace.

Siege40

Well, if they insist on being 'warriors', then the only option is to fight them.  I think we can win easily.

It depends on your definiton of winning. I maintain that the nuke strategy I proposed in another thread is the best way to win.

[Siege40]

I cannot believe what I'm hearing! You can't calously talk about changing a religion. You can't merely go, "Ya, well I don't like this or that, so let's chang it." This is the faith a people, you can't rewrite the religion. Mohammad was, from what I understand, a warrior. Therefore there will likely always be a strain of violence. The goal is to elminate the extremists, not the religion. That's my opinion, I don't know, I just figure if someone came in and wanted to root out a branch of Christianity a lot of people would have something to say. This will only spread hatred not peace.

Siege40

Well, if they insist on being 'warriors', then the only option is to fight them.  I think we can win easily.

While I love the implied talk of Genocide, what does this have to do with the 2004 election?

Siege40

[Gustaf]

I cannot believe what I'm hearing! You can't calously talk about changing a religion. You can't merely go, "Ya, well I don't like this or that, so let's chang it." This is the faith a people, you can't rewrite the religion. Mohammad was, from what I understand, a warrior. Therefore there will likely always be a strain of violence. The goal is to elminate the extremists, not the religion. That's my opinion, I don't know, I just figure if someone came in and wanted to root out a branch of Christianity a lot of people would have something to say. This will only spread hatred not peace.

Siege40

Well, if they insist on being 'warriors', then the only option is to fight them.  I think we can win easily.

While I love the implied talk of Genocide, what does this have to do with the 2004 election?

Siege40

Everything. A nuclear sweep by Bush could seal the election for him. He could declare the war on terrorism over.

[Siege40]

Genocide to win an election what a concept! What happens when you run out of groups of people?

Siege40

[opebo]

Genocide to win an election what a concept! What happens when you run out of groups of people?

Siege40

Actually ruthlessness in war IS a very popular quality.  People really hate to think of their own soldiers getting killed because the president was too squeemish and held something back.

[Gustaf]

Genocide to win an election what a concept! What happens when you run out of groups of people?

Siege40

Actually ruthlessness in war IS a very popular quality.  People really hate to think of their own soldiers getting killed because the president was too squeemish and held something back.

Exactly. And when you run out of foreigners tou can turn to domestic criminals and then move on to the disabled and ethnic minorities. Or poeple living on welfare and illegal immigrants. Nobody likes them and they don't contribute much to society. I guess you could blow off planets or something jsut for the fun of it once you rún ot of untermenschen.

[opebo]

Genocide to win an election what a concept! What happens when you run out of groups of people?

Siege40

Actually ruthlessness in war IS a very popular quality.  People really hate to think of their own soldiers getting killed because the president was too squeemish and held something back.

Exactly. And when you run out of foreigners tou can turn to domestic criminals and then move on to the disabled and ethnic minorities. Or poeple living on welfare and illegal immigrants. Nobody likes them and they don't contribute much to society. I guess you could blow off planets or something jsut for the fun of it once you rún ot of untermenschen.

I get it - fascism.  But think about it Gustaf - how was the behavior of the Allies any different in terms of strategy or tactics (I forget which is is) than the Fascists?  Just because we're Liberals doesn't mean we don't have to kill people who would kill us.