Russia-Ukraine war and related tensions Megathread
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Author Topic: Russia-Ukraine war and related tensions Megathread  (Read 951646 times)
Woody
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« Reply #23500 on: June 24, 2023, 03:57:30 AM »


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LAKISYLVANIA
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« Reply #23501 on: June 24, 2023, 04:01:44 AM »

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Oleg 🇰🇿🤝🇺🇦
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« Reply #23502 on: June 24, 2023, 04:02:44 AM »

It's curious that Vladimir Kvachkov, who is a friend of Girkin, a GRU colonel, chairman of the All-Russian Officers' Assembly and the one who, as a result of a special operation, made Emomali Rahmon a lifelong dictator in Tajikistan, described in detail back in 2012 how he plans to conduct the so-called Russian National Liberation Revolution. His whole book talks about revolution, I will give just one small fragment in machine translation and in Russian original:

Quote
All subordinate punitive police forces and other internal state power structures and private security companies (PSCs) loyal to the regime will be thrown against the Russian National Liberation Revolution, as well as urgently attracted formations of special forces of foreign armies, private military companies with the wide involvement of all  reconnaissance and strike aircraft, especially unmanned aerial vehicles.  The list looks intimidating.  Let's consider it in more detail.

First, let's look at the question purely from a military and military-technical point of view.  In philistine (political science) conversations, the topic of forceful counteraction to a possible popular uprising usually begins with the riot police.  This is partly true, but only partly.  Special police detachments (they seem to have retained their traditional name), patrol battalions and regiments and special rapid reaction detachments (SOBR in the old way) are a kind of "fire department" of the police forces in their region and represent a fairly effective  a mechanism for suppressing hooligan and other local and small urban disturbances.  The forces of OMON and SOBR are not enough even for major, massive violations of public order, not to mention countering a popular armed uprising.  These structures do not have the functional task of suppressing an armed uprising, they are not tactically prepared for such a task, they do not have the appropriate equipment and weapons, as well as the required number of personnel.  The Moscow OMON, numbering 2,500 fighters, has a company of armored personnel carriers (10 units) with gunners who are not even able to disassemble and assemble the bolt of a KPVT machine gun mounted on an armored personnel carrier.  OMON does not shoot: it disperses.  Moreover, the total number of all Russian riot police is approximately 20 thousand, and somewhere else 5 thousand in SOBRs.  In total, the average for Russia is 250-300 people in the regional center of the Russian Federation.  And if we take into account that only the duty unit is in a state of immediate operational readiness, then the most powerful and striking force of the police - OMON and SOBR - should be recognized as clearly insufficient to suppress even the beginning of an armed uprising.  This is clear to everyone involved in this issue.

The main state structure in the Russian Federation, designed to eliminate illegal armed groups, and it is to this category that the liberal government and the media will include the first rebels, units and units of the People's Militia and other structures of the People's Liberation Front of Russia, are the Internal Troops of the Ministry of Internal Affairs, which are based on divisions and  operational brigades, as well as separate special forces of explosives.  Unlike the police tasks of OMON, SOBR, PPS and the bodies of the Ministry of Internal Affairs in general, the Internal Troops have, in addition, a clear and precise operational task of combating illegal armed groups and eliminating them if necessary.  The optimal number of Internal Troops of the Ministry of Internal Affairs until 2020 is determined at 170,000 military personnel.  This is a formidable force.  After all, in addition to everything, the brigades and regiments of the Internal Troops of the Ministry of Internal Affairs, in contrast to the “Serdyukov-Putin” brigades of the Ministry of Defense, in the long-term strategic plan - fortunately, and in the short-term revolutionary plan - unfortunately, left the whole autonomous system of their rear support.  If the motorized rifle, tank and other brigades of the Defense Ministry, after their redeployment to new areas, suck outsourcing from traders, then the units of the Internal Troops of the Ministry of Internal Affairs retain their self-sufficiency, which means their combat readiness and combat capability even after being transferred hundreds or more kilometers from their permanent deployment points.

However, even units of the operational and special purpose of the Internal Troops of the Ministry of Internal Affairs are not intended for combined-arms combat operations to capture cities and other settlements, although they had to do this in Chechnya.  For large-scale counterinsurgency (counterguerrilla) operations, heavy armored vehicles and artillery are needed - tanks and self-propelled artillery mounts, as well as army aviation, which the internal troops do not have.

But these are all secondary circumstances.  The main factor in neutralizing the Internal Troops as a punitive police force will not be an armed struggle against them, but a peaceful and non-violent influence on the personnel and commanders of the explosive units.  It can be argued with a high degree of probability that the command and control system of the Internal Troops for the preparation and implementation of operational tasks at the level of the Main Command - district (operational command) - division - brigade - regiment - battalion will function quite steadily and without significant disruptions in the first few days of the revolutionary uprising.  Generals will loudly command all colonels and maybe lieutenant colonels.  The moment of truth here will be a written (precisely written) order to use weapons and open fire.  But it is not for them to stand eye to eye with the people and not for them to shoot at them.

An officer serves in a regiment, in a battalion;  a soldier serves and lives the life of a company and platoon.  Therefore, individual vehicles, platoons and companies of the Internal Troops are the main objects of peaceful and non-violent actions of the rebels of the Popular Front for the Liberation of Russia.  The main and decisive revolutionary force in this confrontation and the inclination of the soldiers and officers of the VV to the side of the revolution will be a woman mother, a priest, a young Orthodox girl, a nationalist girl, war and labor veterans, any old man and old woman.  They will have to stop the columns of the Internal Troops on the roads, conduct agitation work with military personnel in urban areas, envelop them with soft civil, national force and prevent the soldiers and officers of the Internal Troops from turning into punishers and enemies of the Russian people.

The same methodological approach should be applied to subunits and units of the Ground and Airborne Forces.  With regard to them, the task of their "nationalization" by the People's Front for the Liberation of Russia is somewhat facilitated by the fact that, unlike the Internal Troops of the Ministry of Internal Affairs, motorized rifle, tank, parachute (airborne assault) platoons, companies and battalions have never had and have not performed tasks for  suppression of riots and are not ready to use weapons against their own people, first of all, morally and psychologically.

 Forcing the execution of orders by fear of criminal punishment will be the main and only way for the authorities to maintain control over the army and only one way to force it to perform punitive functions.  In fact, the transformation of the former Soviet-Russian army into a kind of neo-Trotskyist Red Army on the eve of the Stalinist purge of 1937 has been completed: the top is the enemy;  the lower classes are Russian.

Spoiler alert: the Russian original



Country of Russians. Who should rule Russia, December 24, 2012.
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SevenEleven
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« Reply #23503 on: June 24, 2023, 04:04:05 AM »

Lmao this shows how power can get over someone’s head. This millionaire mercenary believes that he can be the new Russian leader considering he’s “in charge” in the battleground.

People are being naive or blinded by their anti-Putin status quo if they think this guy ruling Russia is better for Ukraine or for the world. Keep the nuclear weapons away from the Wagner Group pls.

I don’t want him ruling Russia. Or Putin ruling Russia. What I want is chaos. Destruction of the Russian regime. Preferably in a game of thrones style free for all where Putin and all his bois end up offing eachother.

I guess you’ll have to move on to cheerleading for Xinnie the Pooh next

I am sorry but this is beyond Moronic given how many nuclear weapons Russia has . Do you want rogue extremist groups to suddenly get access to nuclear weapons because that would just be a disaster for the world .

How is the Putin regime not a rogue extremist group lol

I mean look at the alternatives:

- Wagner Group

- Russian Hardliners that make Putin look sane

- Chechen Terrorists

- Other Russian Seperatists


Do you really want nukes to fall into the hands of one of these 4 groups

They all seem pretty bad to me. Why don't you list out the pros and cons of each option to help us analyze
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Middle-aged Europe
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« Reply #23504 on: June 24, 2023, 04:04:24 AM »

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dead0man
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« Reply #23505 on: June 24, 2023, 04:04:55 AM »

I've got a crazy theory...Prigozhin has been "turned" and is secretly working for Ukraine (or other western intel service).  He says and does crazy sh**t way too often, and not random crazy sh**t, crazy sh**t that actively harms Russia's goals in the "special military operation".  It seems like every third day he is either verbally attacking the Russian Army and it's leadership and every 6th day or so, he's actually attacking them with bullets or fists.

To be clear, I don't actually believe this theory.  Probably only a 20% chance it's true, I just wanted to be the first person to publicly push the idea.
does my theory sound better now?
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President Johnson
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« Reply #23506 on: June 24, 2023, 04:14:33 AM »

How it started ...

2021: Russian military second strongest in the world

2022: Russian military second strongest in Ukraine

2023: Russian military second strongest in Russia

... how it's going.
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President Punxsutawney Phil
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« Reply #23507 on: June 24, 2023, 04:15:13 AM »

I've got a crazy theory...Prigozhin has been "turned" and is secretly working for Ukraine (or other western intel service).  He says and does crazy sh**t way too often, and not random crazy sh**t, crazy sh**t that actively harms Russia's goals in the "special military operation".  It seems like every third day he is either verbally attacking the Russian Army and it's leadership and every 6th day or so, he's actually attacking them with bullets or fists.

To be clear, I don't actually believe this theory.  Probably only a 20% chance it's true, I just wanted to be the first person to publicly push the idea.
does my theory sound better now?
Somewhat. Ask me again 24 hours later.
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🦀🎂🦀🎂
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« Reply #23508 on: June 24, 2023, 04:21:00 AM »

Talking of Chechens, Kadyrov, has - obviously - declared for Putin and will send troops in defence.
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Lexii, harbinger of chaos and sexual anarchy
Alex
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« Reply #23509 on: June 24, 2023, 04:27:19 AM »

How long until PSOL is revealed to be Cora's most successful sock
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No War, but the War on Christmas
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« Reply #23510 on: June 24, 2023, 04:30:20 AM »

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Oleg 🇰🇿🤝🇺🇦
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« Reply #23511 on: June 24, 2023, 04:30:56 AM »

Talking of Chechens, Kadyrov, has - obviously - declared for Putin and will send troops in defence.

If Kadyrov had joined Prigozhin, the anti-Putin Russian nationalists would have changed their minds about going over to Prigozhin. Proven step. As I said somewhere in this thread, the Russian Federal Protective Service proves to be the most competent of the Russian military organizations. Possibly the only competent.
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Middle-aged Europe
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« Reply #23512 on: June 24, 2023, 04:39:06 AM »

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LAKISYLVANIA
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« Reply #23513 on: June 24, 2023, 05:00:09 AM »





LUKASHENKO FLED TO TURKEY
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Pericles
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« Reply #23514 on: June 24, 2023, 05:11:12 AM »

I doubt that Prigozhin has much military support. The early stages of a coup attempt are the most dangerous but so far the regime seems to be hanging on. This clearly though creates a lot of chaos, which is very risky for Putin-and unknown if it's good news for the rest of the world.
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Red Velvet
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« Reply #23515 on: June 24, 2023, 05:27:16 AM »

I doubt that Prigozhin has much military support. The early stages of a coup attempt are the most dangerous but so far the regime seems to be hanging on. This clearly though creates a lot of chaos, which is very risky for Putin-and unknown if it's good news for the rest of the world.

Wagner Group has deep ties to radical white supremacist groups even beyond Russia. I don’t really get why people think them occupying power in Russia would be better for the world.

This utilitarian notion of relying on hardline extremists to do your job is coming to bite Putin back in the ass and would do the same to westerners cheering on Wagner in order to stick it up to Putin’s regime.

An internal dispute for power - Wagner seems to want to force themselves in a government leadership position more than they appear to want to kill Putin - is not good for the world if these people get their way and win.

The chaos could maybe be useful on a short-term way, but on a long-term notion an unstable Russia is a danger to literally everyone. Best scenario would be if it creates only a major distraction for Putin that gives time for Ukraine to reclaim their territory (??) but that is soon ended with the decisive defeat of Wagner to Russian forces. These people should NOT be in power anywhere.
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President Punxsutawney Phil
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« Reply #23516 on: June 24, 2023, 05:32:24 AM »

How much does Saint Petersburg matter in all of this?
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Logical
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« Reply #23517 on: June 24, 2023, 05:34:20 AM »

If this is true then Prigo is an evil mastermind.
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LAKISYLVANIA
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« Reply #23518 on: June 24, 2023, 05:36:15 AM »







Truck and civilians being killed. Latter is not a wagner column but also something civilians.

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LAKISYLVANIA
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« Reply #23519 on: June 24, 2023, 05:48:34 AM »



Mixed reception of wagner troops in Rostov. Some civilians are helping the soldiers reportedly, others are peacefully asking them to leave the city.
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Hindsight was 2020
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« Reply #23520 on: June 24, 2023, 05:51:36 AM »

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LAKISYLVANIA
Lakigigar
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« Reply #23521 on: June 24, 2023, 05:52:18 AM »

In several places fighting is reported

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Torrain
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« Reply #23522 on: June 24, 2023, 05:53:22 AM »

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LAKISYLVANIA
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« Reply #23523 on: June 24, 2023, 05:54:00 AM »



Explosion at HQ of southern military district of Russia in Rostov
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TheTide
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« Reply #23524 on: June 24, 2023, 05:57:51 AM »

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