Russia-Ukraine war and related tensions Megathread

[DINGO Joe]

Just to beat a dead pundit

https://twitter.com/MattGertz/status/1569321565531115523

Fox viewers will be more shocked at the Russian loss than Russians

[Splash]

Northern Donetsk Oblast:

https://twitter.com/WarMonitor3/status/1569269482060914688

[Storr]

Unlucky:

https://twitter.com/bayraktar_1love/status/1569365739512991746?s=20&t=RVMQ2b...

[Storr]

https://twitter.com/wartranslated/status/1569350893958471681?s=20&t=RVMQ2bvE...

https://twitter.com/PauliusZaleckas/status/1569333625472299009?s=20&t=RVMQ2b...

[Omega21]

Unlucky:

https://twitter.com/bayraktar_1love/status/1569365739512991746?s=20&t=RVMQ2b...

This is a bit too much. I am not convinced that university staff, unless very politically vocal, are valid targets. I mean, come on, this is just some old woman.

Obviously, it is different when it comes to governors, mayors, security forces etc.

[Storr]

https://twitter.com/DefMon3/status/1569374613607530496?s=20&t=RVMQ2bvEFUlalA...

https://twitter.com/DefMon3/status/1569374621949894660?s=20&t=RVMQ2bvEFUlalA...

[nicholas.slaydon]

Unlucky:

https://twitter.com/bayraktar_1love/status/1569365739512991746?s=20&t=RVMQ2b...

This is a bit too much. I am not convinced that university staff, unless very politically vocal, are valid targets. I mean, come on, this is just some old woman.

Obviously, it is different when it comes to governors, mayors, security forces etc.

I think the fact that she was given a Russian security guard speaks volumes as to what her character is, and to the level of her collaboration, than merely the position she holds. Why would Russia give her protection if she wasn't there to propagandize the population into supporting Russia? If that was indeed her job, then absolutely as a propagandist of an invading enemy, she is a valid target.

[The Dowager Mod]

Granny hugging the Liberators and offering to make Pancakes after 6 months of Russian oppression is another reason Russia will never win this fight.
https://twitter.com/Osinttechnical/status/1567952064239763459

[Splash]

Northern Donetsk Oblast:

https://twitter.com/WarMonitor3/status/1569269482060914688

https://twitter.com/visegrad24/status/1569392057071853568

Another settlement along the T0521 road liberated. This is about 8 kilometers east of Bohorodychne (see above), which was liberated earlier. It seems like the Ukrainians are attempting to flank the Russian defenders in Lyman. 

[Filuwaúrdjan]

https://twitter.com/pauloCanning/status/1569401830567804929

[Omega21]

https://twitter.com/mdfzeh/status/1569387270536298497

If true, this is getting a bit out of hand, the EU/US should make a few calls.

What do they expect from teachers... If people with guns show up and tell you you're going to teach in Russian, chances are, you're going to take that over the potentially very unpleasant alternatives.

[President Punxsutawney Phil]

https://twitter.com/R82938886/status/1569151908446707717
Lol

[TiltsAreUnderrated]

https://twitter.com/mdfzeh/status/1569387270536298497
If true, this is getting a bit out of hand, the EU/US should make a few calls.

What do they expect from teachers... If people with guns show up and tell you you're going to teach in Russian, chances are, you're going to take that over the potentially very unpleasant alternatives.

That's not quite accurate. The full story is here: https://strana.today/news/407217-posle-deokkupatsii-v-ukraine-zaderzhali-rossijskikh-uchitelej-i-budut-ikh-sudit-vereshchuk.html

Russian citizens who came to Ukraine to teach the Russian curriculum in occupied areas are the ones who have been detained and may be punishable for up to 8-12 years (source on sentence length is Shannon Vavra; I don't know what article 438 is). The source seems to imply this would happen to Russian teachers who moved in after the occupation began, but perhaps it overextends to Russian citizens who were already in Ukraine beforehand.

She also said Ukrainian teachers who taught the curriculum will be held responsible for any collaboration activities, but there is no mention of them being detained.

Arresting those already there would seem too draconian, but the teachers who moved in at the behest of the Russian state are akin to the missionaries who moved with the empires of old.

[rc18]

Unlucky:

https://twitter.com/bayraktar_1love/status/1569365739512991746?s=20&t=RVMQ2b...

This is a bit too much. I am not convinced that university staff, unless very politically vocal, are valid targets. I mean, come on, this is just some old woman.

Obviously, it is different when it comes to governors, mayors, security forces etc.

Neither partisans nor collaborators are party to the Laws of Armed Conflict, there are no valid or invalid targets, so this is largely an internal matter for Ukrainian law. Naturally, States tend not to care too much for the fate of collaborators during wartime, not least to deter others.

Someone who continues to work for an educational establishment under occupation is generally considered a collaborator, and they risk reprisal from partisans. We also don't know the extent of her collaboration, it wouldn't be surprising if she had been passing information to the Russian occupation for instance. As mentioned above, the fact she had a bodyguard suggests she wasn't a minor player.

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

Unlucky:

https://twitter.com/bayraktar_1love/status/1569365739512991746?s=20&t=RVMQ2b...

This is a bit too much. I am not convinced that university staff, unless very politically vocal, are valid targets. I mean, come on, this is just some old woman.

Obviously, it is different when it comes to governors, mayors, security forces etc.

She had a Russian bodyguard. That's direct collaboration. Imagine how the French Resistance would've treated a university administrator appointed by the Germans or Vichy government under direct protection of the SS/Milice.

[Lord Halifax]

Unlucky:

https://twitter.com/bayraktar_1love/status/1569365739512991746?s=20&t=RVMQ2b...

This is a bit too much. I am not convinced that university staff, unless very politically vocal, are valid targets. I mean, come on, this is just some old woman.

Obviously, it is different when it comes to governors, mayors, security forces etc.

Neither partisans nor collaborators are party to the Laws of Armed Conflict, there are no valid or invalid targets, so this is largely an internal matter for Ukrainian law. Naturally, States tend not to care too much for the fate of collaborators during wartime, not least to deter others.

Someone who continues to work for an educational establishment under occupation is generally considered a collaborator, and they risk reprisal from partisans. We also don't know the extent of her collaboration, it wouldn't be surprising if she had been passing information to the Russian occupation for instance. As mentioned above, that she had a bodyguard suggests she wasn't a minor player.

She didn't continue her work. She had been fired from her job as a high school principal (for a fairly prestigious school) for taking bribes and accepting some of her staff took bribes, she then tried to run her own hostel, but didn't earn much. When the Russians occupied the city she offered her assistance and was appointed rector of the university, replacing the legally appointed rector who refused to collaborate with the occupiers.

[Antonio the Sixth]

Yeah, these people are very clearly colonial officers complicit in a project of cultural genocide. They're entitled to a fair trial, of course, but Ukraine has every right to throw the book at them.

[2952-0-0]

If there's already this much controversy about those who worked under Russian occupation for six months, then I don't know how the two Donbass republics or the Crimea could be governable after the return of Ukrainian rule. The Kyiv government will have to skillfully determine what level of collaboration would be acceptable, and what would warrant prosecution. Otherwise, you'll have lots of angry people in a country that's still awash with modern weapons.

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

Someone pointed out somewhere that aot of collaborationists posted videos of themselves with the Russian forces when they moved in, so identifying them now post-liberation is quite easy. Expect them to get the French collaborationists in 1945 treatment soon.

[President Punxsutawney Phil]

Not surprised that the Russians found it easiest to get a corrupt has-been desperate to get back in the game to work for them.
In general, Ukraine would have to make hard choices about who they will and won't accept; a proper re-integration of the Donbass is a matter of national security for Ukraine. It might be hard to avoid giving at least some people some kind of amnesty. But the substance of this is very unsettled at this stage and, lest we not forget, this assumes Ukraine eventually regains basically all of its land presently under Russian occupation.

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

https://twitter.com/SpencerGuard/status/1569338010306768898?t=A1nd_foLhO_9C8AoaW...

[TiltsAreUnderrated]

Yeah, these people are very clearly colonial officers complicit in a project of cultural genocide. They're entitled to a fair trial, of course, but Ukraine has every right to throw the book at them.

Some, perhaps even most. But, as with the missionaries - there must have been a substantial minority who primarily wanted to teach literacy or maths to kids in a desperate area. Probably a lot of delusion affecting these people (as with the soldiers who thought they weren't attacking Ukraine in the first phase), but a case-by-case basis might be better for them than a minimum of 8 years in prison.

TimTurner's point about amnesty is pertinent, especially as Ukraine approaches February 23 lines (which it might well push beyond). "Just following orders" isn't morally acceptable even for conscripts, but some legal leniency might be for the best when it comes to mobilised men who have essentially been treated as slaves. Ukraine should seek to inspire further surrenders from LDPR men who are being told by the Russians that the best treatment they can get is to fight for Putin with an 1890s rifle in hand, although there is an incentive not to do this so long as Russia holds more POWs to exchange than Ukraine.

[rc18]

https://twitter.com/mdfzeh/status/1569387270536298497
If true, this is getting a bit out of hand, the EU/US should make a few calls.

What do they expect from teachers... If people with guns show up and tell you you're going to teach in Russian, chances are, you're going to take that over the potentially very unpleasant alternatives.

That's not quite accurate. The full story is here: https://strana.today/news/407217-posle-deokkupatsii-v-ukraine-zaderzhali-rossijskikh-uchitelej-i-budut-ikh-sudit-vereshchuk.html

Russian citizens who came to Ukraine to teach the Russian curriculum in occupied areas are the ones who have been detained and may be punishable for up to 8-12 years (source on sentence length is Shannon Vavra; I don't know what article 438 is). The source seems to imply this would happen to Russian teachers who moved in after the occupation began, but perhaps it overextends to Russian citizens who were already in Ukraine beforehand.

She also said Ukrainian teachers who taught the curriculum will be held responsible for any collaboration activities, but there is no mention of them being detained.

Arresting those already there would seem too draconian, but the teachers who moved in at the behest of the Russian state are akin to the missionaries who moved with the empires of old.

She said "they will also be held accountable before the law, but for collaboration activities". That's because hostile acts by foreigners and collaboration by Ukrainians fall under different articles of the law. The maximum penalty for collaboration by Ukrainian citizens is now 15 years, thanks to a wartime change in the law.

That said, it is very unlikely that most will receive anywhere near that sentence. Not unless what they did led to a loss of life, they clearly did so for the own gain and were not under any duress.

[windjammer]

https://twitter.com/SpencerGuard/status/1569338010306768898?t=A1nd_foLhO_9C8AoaW...

I want to believe but I don't, too good to be true

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

https://twitter.com/SpencerGuard/status/1569338010306768898?t=A1nd_foLhO_9C8AoaW...

I want to believe but I don't, too good to be true

A week ago people would've thought the routing in Kharkiv was too good to be true.