Russia-Ukraine war and related tensions Megathread

[THG]

I was thinking if Zelensky dies he'll become one of the most named after people in history for now. Like almost every major city in the West will name a street after him.

And if Ukraine wins this...he probably wins re-election by a wider margin than Putin is "re-elected" by.

BRTD, our great-grandchildren will be reading about him in the history books.

[Storr]

https://twitter.com/NotWoofers/status/1497582801289285642?s=20&t=go_cpGI_BH2...

[Sir Mohamed]

I was thinking if Zelensky dies he'll become one of the most named after people in history for now. Like almost every major city in the West will name a street after him.

And if Ukraine wins this...he probably wins re-election by a wider margin than Putin is "re-elected" by.

The "re-elected" in quotes made me laugh very hard, lol.

On a serious note, I'm still doubtful there can be military victory for Ukraine. Best case outcome would be a stalemate and Putin for now retreats to already occupied territory, or he'll be ousted by Russian oligarchs who have enough of international isolation, especially if the PRC makes moves.

[Mike88]

https://www.spiegel.de/wirtschaft/swift-deutschland-will-internationales-zahlungssystem-gezielt-einschraenken-a-457cbb5a-95b7-40fd-bf2d-9d91d9f27c4c

Germany supports a "targeted and functional" restriction of the Swift international payment system for Russia. Work is being done "at high pressure" on how Russia's decoupling from Swift can be limited in such a way that "it hits the right people"

Whatever that means?

It's getting close to becoming embarrassment. Just do it. International law should be above profits.

Yeah, Germany looks trapped and not very decisive. Their dependency to Russian energy is becoming an unsustainable burden.

I know that Portugal and Costa have basically zero influence in EU affairs, but we should just rub in their faces the whole Pyrenees pipeline project and be completely stubborn in its approval.

[Frodo]

On a serious note, I'm still doubtful there can be military victory for Ukraine. Best case outcome would be a stalemate and Putin for now retreats to already occupied territory, or he'll be ousted by Russian oligarchs who have enough of international isolation, especially if the PRC makes moves.

The ultimate goal I have in all this is that Russia's experience in Ukraine deters China from making any similar moves on Taiwan in the foreseeable future.  As long as that is achieved, I consider whatever outcome emerges in Ukraine as a win.  

[Filuwaúrdjan]

'War is merely the continuation of policy by other means' - it's a good quote and so well known that it's a cliché. And also so well known that politicians often forget what it actually means; the full implications. There is really very little utility (none, actually) in winning on the battlefield and then landing yourself in an even greater policy quagmire than you were in before.

[Blue3]

Not 100% verified but being shared around, I know at least some is true, and I’m sure all or most of it is:




For those who ask: “Why does Ukraine matter? “

It is the second largest country by area in Europe by area and has a population
of over 40 million - more than Poland.

Ukraine ranks:
1st in Europe in proven recoverable reserves of uranium ores;
2nd place in Europe and 10th place in the world in terms of titanium ore reserves;
2nd place in the world in terms of explored reserves of manganese ores (2.3 billion tons, or 12% of the world's reserves);
2nd largest iron ore reserves in the world (30 billion tons);
2nd place in Europe in terms of mercury ore reserves;
3rd place in Europe (13th place in the world) in shale gas reserves (22 trillion cubic meters)
4th in the world by the total value of natural resources;
7th place in the world in coal reserves (33.9 billion tons)

Ukraine is an important agricultural country:

1st in Europe in terms of arable land area;
3rd place in the world by the area of black soil (25% of world's volume);
1st place in the world in exports of sunflower and sunflower oil;
2nd place in the world in barley production and 4th place in barley exports;
3rd largest producer and 4th largest exporter of corn in the world;
4th largest producer of potatoes in the world;
5th largest rye producer in the world;
5th place in the world in bee production (75,000 tons);
8th place in the world in wheat exports;
9th place in the world in the production of chicken eggs;
16th place in the world in cheese exports.

Ukraine can meet the food needs of 600 million people.

Ukraine is an important industrialised country:

1st in Europe in ammonia production;
Europe's 2nd’s and the world’s 4th largest natural gas pipeline system;
3rd largest in Europe and 8th largest in the world in terms of installed capacity of nuclear power plants;
3rd place in Europe and 11th in the world in terms of rail network length (21,700 km);
3rd place in the world (after the U.S. and France) in production of locators and locating equipment;
3rd largest iron exporter in the world
4th largest exporter of turbines for nuclear power plants in the world;
4th world's largest manufacturer of rocket launchers;
4th place in the world in clay exports
4th place in the world in titanium exports
8th place in the world in exports of ores and concentrates;
9th place in the world in exports of defence industry products;
10th largest steel producer in the world (32.4 million tons).

Ukraine matters. That is why its independence is important to the rest of the world.

[Sir Mohamed]

This would be bold, too, I guess:

https://twitter.com/business/status/1497582903718514690

[jaichind]

This would be bold, too, I guess:

https://twitter.com/business/status/1497582903718514690

I think since 2014 Russia has been shifting its reserves away from USD.  I would guess it is no more than 10%.  Also, Russia controls its own gold reserves.  Still, if the Russian Central bank is not able to touch its USD reserves it will be a big hit and I bet RUB will fall a bunch if this is what the decision is.

[2016]

On a serious note: I think one of the Main Reasons Negotiations hasn't started is party on Zelensky himself. Asking openly about EU Membership and these sorts of things on Social Media for everyone to see ain't helping him & his people!

Even if you are the President of a Country you'll need to be a little bit more smart than this!

[OSR stands with Israel]

This would be bold, too, I guess:

https://twitter.com/business/status/1497582903718514690

Just impose  the sanctions , we can’t afford to wait at this point

[THG]

This would be bold, too, I guess:

https://twitter.com/business/status/1497582903718514690

The entire planet (minus a few obvious exceptions who will never turn against Russia) should cut off Russia from the international banking system. This is a solid start, however.

[Sir Mohamed]

On a serious note: I think one of the Main Reasons Negotiations hasn't started is party on Zelensky himself. Asking openly about EU Membership and these sorts of things on Social Media for everyone to see ain't helping him & his people!

Even if you are the President of a Country you'll need to be a little bit more smart than this!

Putin pretty much demanded Ukraine to surrender for any negotiations while Russia continues offensive. Not acceptable terms.

[2016]

Not 100% verified but being shared around, I know at least some is true, and I’m sure all or most of it is:




For those who ask: “Why does Ukraine matter? “

It is the second largest country by area in Europe by area and has a population
of over 40 million - more than Poland.

Ukraine ranks:
1st in Europe in proven recoverable reserves of uranium ores;
2nd place in Europe and 10th place in the world in terms of titanium ore reserves;
2nd place in the world in terms of explored reserves of manganese ores (2.3 billion tons, or 12% of the world's reserves);
2nd largest iron ore reserves in the world (30 billion tons);
2nd place in Europe in terms of mercury ore reserves;
3rd place in Europe (13th place in the world) in shale gas reserves (22 trillion cubic meters)
4th in the world by the total value of natural resources;
7th place in the world in coal reserves (33.9 billion tons)

Ukraine is an important agricultural country:

1st in Europe in terms of arable land area;
3rd place in the world by the area of black soil (25% of world's volume);
1st place in the world in exports of sunflower and sunflower oil;
2nd place in the world in barley production and 4th place in barley exports;
3rd largest producer and 4th largest exporter of corn in the world;
4th largest producer of potatoes in the world;
5th largest rye producer in the world;
5th place in the world in bee production (75,000 tons);
8th place in the world in wheat exports;
9th place in the world in the production of chicken eggs;
16th place in the world in cheese exports.

Ukraine can meet the food needs of 600 million people.

Ukraine is an important industrialised country:

1st in Europe in ammonia production;
Europe's 2nd’s and the world’s 4th largest natural gas pipeline system;
3rd largest in Europe and 8th largest in the world in terms of installed capacity of nuclear power plants;
3rd place in Europe and 11th in the world in terms of rail network length (21,700 km);
3rd place in the world (after the U.S. and France) in production of locators and locating equipment;
3rd largest iron exporter in the world
4th largest exporter of turbines for nuclear power plants in the world;
4th world's largest manufacturer of rocket launchers;
4th place in the world in clay exports
4th place in the world in titanium exports
8th place in the world in exports of ores and concentrates;
9th place in the world in exports of defence industry products;
10th largest steel producer in the world (32.4 million tons).

Ukraine matters. That is why its independence is important to the rest of the world.

Zelensky doesn't want Independence!!! He wants EU & possible NATO Membership which will make the Russians even more determined!

[Astatine]

https://www.spiegel.de/wirtschaft/swift-deutschland-will-internationales-zahlungssystem-gezielt-einschraenken-a-457cbb5a-95b7-40fd-bf2d-9d91d9f27c4c

Germany supports a "targeted and functional" restriction of the Swift international payment system for Russia. Work is being done "at high pressure" on how Russia's decoupling from Swift can be limited in such a way that "it hits the right people"

Whatever that means?

It's getting close to becoming embarrassment. Just do it. International law should be above profits.

Yeah, Germany looks trapped and not very decisive. Their dependency to Russian energy is becoming an unsustainable burden.

I know that Portugal and Costa have basically zero influence in EU affairs, but we should just rub in their faces the whole Pyrenees pipeline project and be completely stubborn in its approval.

Germany deserves that for its self-righteousness, arrogance and indecisiveness.
Poland and France should build their new nuclear reactors next to the German border.

[WMS]

Let’s update How The World Turns. I’ll italicize my changes.

Those Supporting Russia, hereafter to be known as “Sh!+hole Countries”:
-obviously Belarus and all the Russian puppets like Abkhazia
-Artsakh, hey congrats, you actually made me think more kindly of Azerbaijan now
-The Central African Republic, oh yeah, actual neocolonialism in action by Russia here
-Cuba, Nicaragua, Venezuela, and special guest Evo Morales! I don’t want to hear a f***ing WORD from the Latin American International Socialist contingent bitching about American imperialism while remaining silent or outright supporting what Russia is doing and one of them showed up anyway to do exactly that
-Syria, Iran, and the Houthis, “but what about U.S.-“ F*** off, Putinists
-Myanmar, ‘The spokesperson for Myanmar's State Administration Council, Zaw Min Tun, supported Russia's decision, stating that "Russia was acting to protect its sovereignty" and praised Russia's role in balancing global power” gee that sounds like some posters in this thread, well @$$holes will be @$$holes, speaking of which
-hey look it’s China, f*** them too
-in a reversal of earlier reports, Kazakhstan, not a shocker really and then they go and refuse Putin on sending troops into Ukraine
-why it’s Donald Trump!
-Eritrea! Congratulations Putin supporters on getting a country that literally sells its people to other countries as slaves on your side! Aren’t you proud!
-North Korea finally released a statement and ‘shockingly’ supports Putin! Another triumph for the forces opposing Western Imperialism no doubt
-The Russian Orthodox Church, which should be treated as a hostile and alien entity at this point

A Bit Less Overly Pro-Russian But It’s Clear Where They Stand:
-Nigeria, wow Russia and China have been busy in Africa it seems with bribing governments and the Nigerian government REALLY doesn’t want to explain themselves either
-Pakistan, visiting Moscow during this crisis to get sweet trade deals, can we please stop pretending these snakes are “major non-NATO allies” already?
-Sri Lanka, literally “both sides” using, clearly doing what China wants
-Bolivia, no condemnation of Russia, but this IS the government that cheered Daniel Ortega’s “re-election” just recently and their statements are weak, plus the opposition is having a field day snarking about this
-Republika Srpska, who could have seen THAT coming?
-and here’s Gerhard Schroeder!

Dishonorable Mentions:
-India, really now Modi, THIS is when you choose to be a dick? You’re de facto on the side of China by doing this you know
-The UAE, okay can we yank all our troops and money from them too now?
-Jair Bolonsaro in Brazil, hilariously his own Vice President disagrees with him on this did I mention their VP is suggesting the use of force against Russia? FF
-Naftalli Bennett, no condemnation, yes yes the Russian Jews are part of the coalition and more importantly you’re still better than Netanyahu
-Serbia, wow even Hungary is condemning Russia and you sure are looking isolated in Europe, huh? and Serbia is doubling-down on this stance, hey Omega, the Serbs are once again picking the wrong side
-plenty of Republicans, I don’t have a count of the traitorous lot
-The Scarsdale Currency Trading Corporation may your currency speculation go through ‘interesting times’

Lots of Neutrals so far in the developing world, but not all of them!

And The Anti-Russians, oh look it’s most of the parts of the world that don’t suck

In conclusion, F*** Russia and everyone who supports their actions. And may God Bless Ukraine!

[Sir Mohamed]

Zelensky doesn't want Independence!!! He wants EU & possible NATO Membership which will make the Russians even more determined!

Please stop with this nonsense takes. Joining EU and eventually NATO is independence for Ukraine. The majority of their people want so, and the percentage significantly increased over recent years. Mr. Putin himself was working overtime to push them closer to the West with his hostile actions. The sole reason he's so opposed to Ukraine going its own way is fear. With Ukraine as democratic and free nation as neighbor to Russia, Putin sees this as direct threat to his regime. He doesn't want his people to demand the same. It's not that hard to see through it.

[Storr]

They abandoned a fully loaded Grad battery??

https://twitter.com/NotWoofers/status/1497590875794423810?s=20&t=GSpBLmLB4kL...

[Sir Mohamed]

Finally. It's happening.

https://twitter.com/RuneLinding/status/1497635221197496324

[Astatine]

Let’s update How The World Turns. I’ll italicize my changes.

Those Supporting Russia, hereafter to be known as “Sh!+hole Countries”:
-obviously Belarus and all the Russian puppets like Abkhazia
-Artsakh, hey congrats, you actually made me think more kindly of Azerbaijan now
-The Central African Republic, oh yeah, actual neocolonialism in action by Russia here
-Cuba, Nicaragua, Venezuela, and special guest Evo Morales! I don’t want to hear a f***ing WORD from the Latin American International Socialist contingent bitching about American imperialism while remaining silent or outright supporting what Russia is doing and one of them showed up anyway to do exactly that
-Syria, Iran, and the Houthis, “but what about U.S.-“ F*** off, Putinists
-Myanmar, ‘The spokesperson for Myanmar's State Administration Council, Zaw Min Tun, supported Russia's decision, stating that "Russia was acting to protect its sovereignty" and praised Russia's role in balancing global power” gee that sounds like some posters in this thread, well @$$holes will be @$$holes, speaking of which
-hey look it’s China, f*** them too
-in a reversal of earlier reports, Kazakhstan, not a shocker really and then they go and refuse Putin on sending troops into Ukraine
-why it’s Donald Trump!
-Eritrea! Congratulations Putin supporters on getting a country that literally sells its people to other countries as slaves on your side! Aren’t you proud!
-North Korea finally released a statement and ‘shockingly’ supports Putin! Another triumph for the forces opposing Western Imperialism no doubt
-The Russian Orthodox Church, which should be treated as a hostile and alien entity at this point

A Bit Less Overly Pro-Russian But It’s Clear Where They Stand:
-Nigeria, wow Russia and China have been busy in Africa it seems with bribing governments and the Nigerian government REALLY doesn’t want to explain themselves either
-Pakistan, visiting Moscow during this crisis to get sweet trade deals, can we please stop pretending these snakes are “major non-NATO allies” already?
-Sri Lanka, literally “both sides” using, clearly doing what China wants
-Bolivia, no condemnation of Russia, but this IS the government that cheered Daniel Ortega’s “re-election” just recently and their statements are weak, plus the opposition is having a field day snarking about this
-Republika Srpska, who could have seen THAT coming?
-and here’s Gerhard Schroeder!

Dishonorable Mentions:
-India, really now Modi, THIS is when you choose to be a dick? You’re de facto on the side of China by doing this you know
-The UAE, okay can we yank all our troops and money from them too now?
-Jair Bolonsaro in Brazil, hilariously his own Vice President disagrees with him on this did I mention their VP is suggesting the use of force against Russia? FF
-Naftalli Bennett, no condemnation, yes yes the Russian Jews are part of the coalition and more importantly you’re still better than Netanyahu
-Serbia, wow even Hungary is condemning Russia and you sure are looking isolated in Europe, huh? and Serbia is doubling-down on this stance, hey Omega, the Serbs are once again picking the wrong side
-plenty of Republicans, I don’t have a count of the traitorous lot
-The Scarsdale Currency Trading Corporation may your currency speculation go through ‘interesting times’

Lots of Neutrals so far in the developing world, but not all of them!

And The Anti-Russians, oh look it’s most of the parts of the world that don’t suck

In conclusion, F*** Russia and everyone who supports their actions. And may God Bless Ukraine!

Georgia is another dishonorable mention: When the war in 2008 happened, Ukrainian President Yushchenko was in Tbilisi. Now, the PM doesn't want to announce sanctions and refuses to hold an extraordinary parliamentary meeting. Georgians told him nicely to  off though (As DavidB had mentioned though, the Georgian gov't behavior isn't that dumb from an economic perspective - But in a country where moral principles and losing in a fight rather than winning cowardly are valued very high within the society and culture, it might backfire)

[Alcibiades]

https://mobile.twitter.com/Bundeskanzler/status/1497632817450266632

Good to see Germany finally stepping up their game. Having authorised the Netherlands to send 400 German-manufactured RPGs to Ukraine, Scholz is now sending 1000 anti-tank weapons and 500 Stingers directly.

[WMS]

Let’s update How The World Turns. I’ll italicize my changes.

Those Supporting Russia, hereafter to be known as “Sh!+hole Countries”:
-obviously Belarus and all the Russian puppets like Abkhazia
-Artsakh, hey congrats, you actually made me think more kindly of Azerbaijan now
-The Central African Republic, oh yeah, actual neocolonialism in action by Russia here
-Cuba, Nicaragua, Venezuela, and special guest Evo Morales! I don’t want to hear a f***ing WORD from the Latin American International Socialist contingent bitching about American imperialism while remaining silent or outright supporting what Russia is doing and one of them showed up anyway to do exactly that
-Syria, Iran, and the Houthis, “but what about U.S.-“ F*** off, Putinists
-Myanmar, ‘The spokesperson for Myanmar's State Administration Council, Zaw Min Tun, supported Russia's decision, stating that "Russia was acting to protect its sovereignty" and praised Russia's role in balancing global power” gee that sounds like some posters in this thread, well @$$holes will be @$$holes, speaking of which
-hey look it’s China, f*** them too
-in a reversal of earlier reports, Kazakhstan, not a shocker really and then they go and refuse Putin on sending troops into Ukraine
-why it’s Donald Trump!
-Eritrea! Congratulations Putin supporters on getting a country that literally sells its people to other countries as slaves on your side! Aren’t you proud!
-North Korea finally released a statement and ‘shockingly’ supports Putin! Another triumph for the forces opposing Western Imperialism no doubt
-The Russian Orthodox Church, which should be treated as a hostile and alien entity at this point

A Bit Less Overly Pro-Russian But It’s Clear Where They Stand:
-Nigeria, wow Russia and China have been busy in Africa it seems with bribing governments and the Nigerian government REALLY doesn’t want to explain themselves either
-Pakistan, visiting Moscow during this crisis to get sweet trade deals, can we please stop pretending these snakes are “major non-NATO allies” already?
-Sri Lanka, literally “both sides” using, clearly doing what China wants
-Bolivia, no condemnation of Russia, but this IS the government that cheered Daniel Ortega’s “re-election” just recently and their statements are weak, plus the opposition is having a field day snarking about this
-Republika Srpska, who could have seen THAT coming?
-and here’s Gerhard Schroeder!

Dishonorable Mentions:
-India, really now Modi, THIS is when you choose to be a dick? You’re de facto on the side of China by doing this you know
-The UAE, okay can we yank all our troops and money from them too now?
-Jair Bolonsaro in Brazil, hilariously his own Vice President disagrees with him on this did I mention their VP is suggesting the use of force against Russia? FF
-Naftalli Bennett, no condemnation, yes yes the Russian Jews are part of the coalition and more importantly you’re still better than Netanyahu
-Serbia, wow even Hungary is condemning Russia and you sure are looking isolated in Europe, huh? and Serbia is doubling-down on this stance, hey Omega, the Serbs are once again picking the wrong side
-plenty of Republicans, I don’t have a count of the traitorous lot
-The Scarsdale Currency Trading Corporation may your currency speculation go through ‘interesting times’

Lots of Neutrals so far in the developing world, but not all of them!

And The Anti-Russians, oh look it’s most of the parts of the world that don’t suck

In conclusion, F*** Russia and everyone who supports their actions. And may God Bless Ukraine!

Georgia is another dishonorable mention: When the war in 2008 happened, Ukrainian President Yushchenko was in Tbilisi. Now, the PM doesn't want to announce sanctions and refuses to hold an extraordinary parliamentary meeting. Georgians told him nicely to  off though (As DavidB had mentioned though, the Georgian gov't behavior isn't that dumb from an economic perspective - But in a country where moral principles and losing in a fight rather than winning cowardly are valued very high within the society and culture, it might backfire)

Yeah, the sharp split between governmental and popular opinion in Georgia has meant I’m unable to really place them yet.

[Badger]

Another tweet roundup:

https://twitter.com/jgoodman751/status/1497552891317526537?s=21

https://twitter.com/mrmojorisin510/status/1497530178674724864?s=21

https://twitter.com/claperdrix/status/1497552109314748420?s=21

https://twitter.com/euromaidanpr/status/1497554911118114816?s=21

https://twitter.com/mars_is_calling/status/1497341454154403847?s=21

https://twitter.com/angry_staffer/status/1497586819994636300?s=21

https://twitter.com/angry_staffer/status/1497580688106741762?s=21

https://twitter.com/lexingtonbobby/status/1497569481945661446?s=21

 Forgive  Quoting the massive Block quoted, but the last tweet by David Frum  Bears repeating. Every single  Person who today bleats "I stand with Ukraine!!" , but just a couple years ago derided derided trump's grotesque violation of his country's foreign policy interests for naked political gain and wrote it off as a hoax are complete ignorant And hippocrytical f##ks.  Sorry not sorry, but there is absolutely no kinder word to describe any of you, either on or off Atlas.

This this was why we needed to ensure A properly armed Ukraine, not that trump could find c*** out about Joe Biden's son. The fact whether or not munitions got there eventually is secondary perit's secondary. You chose to support trump despite his disgusting undermining of Ukraine's national security and America's national security interest, and Manny know, most of you right wingers continue to do so to this day.

If any one of you had a shred of spine in your Hypocritical bodies your response to this would be "I am so sorry Ukraine. I will never trust Donald Trump again" . But you won't. #IstandwithUkraineuntillTrumpsaysdon't

 Inorant. Hypocritical. F###s.

[YPestis25]

If these fools were in charge in 1941, we'd still be weighing an oil embargo against Japan by the time they attacked Pearl Harbor.

[President Johnson]

I don't know, is it just me or does it seem that all dams are breaking in recent hours? All the sanctions, a protest wave across the globe and the boycotts. I really wonder whether Putin expected this as well as the immense and brave resistance of Ukraine?

I'm glad the German government finally came along. Should have done so much earlier. We were delusional about Russia all too long, all political parties from left to right.