Russia-Ukraine war and related tensions Megathread

[2016]

BLAME FORMER PRESIDENT OBAMA FOR THIS! Romney warned about it, he wasn't heard and laughed off.

[KaiserDave]

What’s the status of Kyiv airport combat?

[jaichind]

Bloomberg reports that "Biden Team Will Hold Off on Russia Sanctions Hitting Aluminum"

[jaichind]

BLAME FORMER PRESIDENT OBAMA FOR THIS! Romney warned about it, he wasn't heard and laughed off.

I disagree.  I was for Romney in 2012 and still back Romney over Obama in a rematch.  But Russia is not a threat to the USA, Russia is a threat to its neighbors.  The debate  was over who was a threat to USA.

[Person Man]

So is this Zelensky's master plan? Arming the citizenry and expecting people to turn their cities and towns into all-out war zones? Do the users in this thread promoting this idea understand the misery and destruction that insurgencies bring?

I'm not saying the people of Ukraine should give up without a fight, but there has to be a limit to what you expect of civilian populations.

Seems like a good plan. Arm as many vigilantes no matter who they are. Russia can enjoy the next decade of this.

The Ukrainian people will be the ones "enjoying" that decade.

Do you believe that Russian occupation is a better outcome for the Ukrainian people?

I believe that there's a legitimate debate to be had over whether it's preferable to be ruled by Putin or to see your country devolve into a European Syria, and the keyboard insurgents who want to see years of violent resistance have no right to judge the Ukrainian people for which option they choose.

I want to make very clear here, I am not judging any of the Ukrainian people aside from their leadership. When I say I support opposition to the Russians, it's because I want the Russians to suffer so that they will be less likely to pull this again in the future. Unfortunately we can't control the actions of sh-thole countries like Russia, and it's incredibly tragic that Putin decided to target Ukraine in his effort to spread his filth across the globe, but that's not something we can control anymore. All we can do is try and make Russia and its people hurt, and right now because of Russia's actions Ukraine is the avenue to do that through. I don't judge any Ukrainians for not resisting, but so long as there are people in Ukraine willing to kill Russian soldiers, they should have our support. As callous and sad as this is to say, we're not just talking about the quality of life in Ukraine (or even Ukraine's independence), we're talking about putting the cesspit that is Putin's Russia in its place.

And when does it stop? The goal of Ukraine is to deter Taiwan. The goal of Taiwan is deterring China and Russia from conquering enough countries to leave the United States isolated and the majority of all people enslaved.

[Ferguson97]

Also, where are all the anti-Imperialist leftists in this thread?

"Imperialism is when a country is EU-aligned. The more EU-aligned it is, the imperialister it is."

You joke but a lot of people unironically believe this.

[Okay, maybe Mike Johnson is a competent parliamentarian.]

BLAME FORMER PRESIDENT OBAMA FOR THIS! Romney warned about it, he wasn't heard and laughed off.

The thought has definitely crossed my mind that that remark of Romney's has been vindicated by history, but blaming Obama solely and individually for this is just silly.

Also, where are all the anti-Imperialist leftists in this thread?

"Imperialism is when a country is EU-aligned. The more EU-aligned it is, the imperialister it is."

You joke but a lot of people unironically believe this.

I know. It's funny because it's true.

[John Dule]

I want to make very clear here, I am not judging any of the Ukrainian people aside from their leadership. When I say I support opposition to the Russians, it's because I want the Russians to suffer so that they will be less likely to pull this again in the future. Unfortunately we can't control the actions of sh-thole countries like Russia, and it's incredibly tragic that Putin decided to target Ukraine in his effort to spread his filth across the globe, but that's not something we can control anymore. All we can do is try and make Russia and its people hurt, and right now because of Russia's actions Ukraine is the avenue to do that through. I don't judge any Ukrainians for not resisting, but so long as there are people in Ukraine willing to kill Russian soldiers, they should have our support. As callous and sad as this is to say, we're not just talking about the quality of life in Ukraine (or even Ukraine's independence), we're talking about putting the cesspit that is Putin's Russia in its place.

I just don't want us to miss the fact that countries trapped in a tug-of-war between two great powers are the ones that always suffer the most. Ukraine may not be a rich country, but it does not deserve to be decimated like Vietnam or Syria. I hope that whatever strategy we pursue in the next few months primarily hurts the people responsible for this, and doesn't cause the people of Ukraine any more unnecessary pain. Lord knows that country has suffered enough due to the whims of Russia over the past hundred years.

[Gass3268]

BLAME FORMER PRESIDENT OBAMA FOR THIS! Romney warned about it, he wasn't heard and laughed off.

I disagree.  I was for Romney in 2012 and still back Romney over Obama in a rematch.  But Russia is not a threat to the USA, Russia is a threat to its neighbors.  The debate  was over who was a threat to USA.

Also to be fair Russia was in a completely different place in 2012, compared to even 2014. A switch flipped when Putin became President again.

[Person Man]

BLAME FORMER PRESIDENT OBAMA FOR THIS! Romney warned about it, he wasn't heard and laughed off.

The thought has definitely crossed my mind that that remark of Romney's has been vindicated by history, but blaming Obama solely and individually for this is just silly.


Between 2014-2016, this was a very good Republican talking point. Yes. I agree.

Also, where are all the anti-Imperialist leftists in this thread?

"Imperialism is when a country is EU-aligned. The more EU-aligned it is, the imperialister it is."

You joke but a lot of people unironically believe this.

I know. It's funny because it's true.

What kind of pill is this really? Brownpilled? Seriously, though..we’re they abused as children?

[Omega21]

BLAME FORMER PRESIDENT OBAMA FOR THIS! Romney warned about it, he wasn't heard and laughed off.

The thought has definitely crossed my mind that that remark of Romney's has been vindicated by history, but blaming Obama solely and individually for this is just silly.


Between 2014-2016, this was a very good Republican talking point. Yes. I agree.

Also, where are all the anti-Imperialist leftists in this thread?

"Imperialism is when a country is EU-aligned. The more EU-aligned it is, the imperialister it is."

You joke but a lot of people unironically believe this.

I know. It's funny because it's true.

What kind of pill is this really? Brownpilled?

[Mopsus]

Also, where are all the anti-Imperialist leftists in this thread?

They’ve been criticizing the imperialist regime in Moscow. Where have you been?

[Hnv1]

Part of me is convinced that if this invasion fails Putin is done.

The Russian military, so lauded at home and abroad would have been done in by a vastly inferior, although well armed, force. The stock market has tanked, the ruble is worthless. sure energy prices are up but that's little cost for the international embarrassment. The war is not popular as is.

Fails according to what standards? it's clear there will be territorial gains, but Putin didn't indicate any clear goals here

The Ukranians fend off the invasion and halt regime change?

Did Putin ever outright said he was aiming for it? No. Hence he can spin any territorial gain as a victory back home

[2016]

BLAME FORMER PRESIDENT OBAMA FOR THIS! Romney warned about it, he wasn't heard and laughed off.

I disagree.  I was for Romney in 2012 and still back Romney over Obama in a rematch.  But Russia is not a threat to the USA, Russia is a threat to its neighbors.  The debate  was over who was a threat to USA.

I disagree with you! Even former Obama NSA James Clapper acknowledged & regretted the Obama Administration not being tough enough on Putin when he annexed Crimea in 2014.

[Gass3268]

https://twitter.com/KenDilanianNBC/status/1496903014757580802?s=20&t=IA9yLGC...

[Person Man]

BLAME FORMER PRESIDENT OBAMA FOR THIS! Romney warned about it, he wasn't heard and laughed off.

I disagree.  I was for Romney in 2012 and still back Romney over Obama in a rematch.  But Russia is not a threat to the USA, Russia is a threat to its neighbors.  The debate  was over who was a threat to USA.

I disagree with you! Even former Obama NSA James Clapper acknowledged & regretted the Obama Administration not being tough enough on Putin when he annexed Crimea in 2014.

It would have been a wonderful thing to run on in 2016 but that didn’t happen.

[2016]

FOX NEWS Bill Hemmer mentioned Russian Forces being far supririor at Night compared to the Ukrainian Army, questiones how long Zelensky can stand up to this Invasion. Expect some more moves tonight as it is now dark in Europe.

[Person Man]

https://twitter.com/KenDilanianNBC/status/1496903014757580802?s=20&t=IA9yLGC...

It would be cool if some of those could propagate propaganda and damage actual infrastructure. We’ve had the technology to damage things in the real world with viruses since at least 2007.

[Person Man]

BLAME FORMER PRESIDENT OBAMA FOR THIS! Romney warned about it, he wasn't heard and laughed off.

The thought has definitely crossed my mind that that remark of Romney's has been vindicated by history, but blaming Obama solely and individually for this is just silly.


Between 2014-2016, this was a very good Republican talking point. Yes. I agree.

Also, where are all the anti-Imperialist leftists in this thread?

"Imperialism is when a country is EU-aligned. The more EU-aligned it is, the imperialister it is."

You joke but a lot of people unironically believe this.

I know. It's funny because it's true.

What kind of pill is this really? Brownpilled?

They are full of sh**t.

[Gass3268]

https://twitter.com/SamRamani2/status/1496901716876443648?s=20&t=IA9yLGC2x-U...

[It’s so Joever]

Let’s send troops into West Ukraine and call his bluff. Biden needs to be strong. COME ON JOE

[TheReckoning]

Also, where are all the anti-Imperialist leftists in this thread?

"Imperialism is when a country is EU-aligned. The more EU-aligned it is, the imperialister it is."

I’m talking about specific posters like Big Abraham and PSOL. Seriously, where are they?

[ꙮ]

Hasn't been mentioned so far here, but Snake Island in the Black Sea was attacked by 2 Russian naval vessels who demanded the surrender of the Ukrainian garrison. They refused to, and the subsequent bombardment has apparently destroyed the buildings on the island. I imagine the Ukrainian Navy is in no state to resupply them right now, so it's a matter of time until Russia occupies it.

[Sir Mohamed]

Let’s send troops into West Ukraine and call his bluff. Biden needs to be strong. COME ON JOE

I think this would be very dangerous, and this would take a lot more time since we would have to move troops from America across the Atlantic.

[Aurelius]

Like StateBoiler said, a militia is certainly much less capable, man for man, than a professional military. In the early history of the United States, when there was a strong ideological preference for volunteer militia over standing armies, the militia forces repeatedly proved themselves less potent than the regulars on a broad scale, despite individual moments of heroics. However, it's still much better than nothing. If you have millions of Ukrainians doing nothing militarily, going about their ordinary civilian lives, and then you recruit from them as an auxiliary to your standing army, that will add to your strength.

Ukraine has a population of 44 million, and there's probably 8-10 million fighting age men in there. Obviously only a small fraction will likely volunteer, but is not insignificant.