Russia-Ukraine war and related tensions Megathread (user search)
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Author Topic: Russia-Ukraine war and related tensions Megathread  (Read 880645 times)
pppolitics
Junior Chimp
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Posts: 5,851
« Reply #75 on: March 08, 2022, 10:52:52 AM »
Quote from: Sir Mohamed 🇺🇸 🇺🇦 on March 08, 2022, 10:46:45 AM

I think it's more likely to be fake than not, tbh. At least needs further validation. That said, I wouldn't be that surprised to find out it's real. It's for sure obvious Russians and Mr. Putin in particular don't give a damn about their soldiers, who are sent to die for nothing. They're not even moving the dead bodies back to Russia. We're moving heaven and earth to return dead soldiers back home to America.

We do see that Russian is sending these dump trucks.
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pppolitics
Junior Chimp
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Posts: 5,851
« Reply #76 on: March 08, 2022, 11:10:00 AM »
Maybe the Russians are sending their best
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pppolitics
Junior Chimp
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Posts: 5,851
« Reply #77 on: March 08, 2022, 11:25:20 AM »
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pppolitics
Junior Chimp
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Posts: 5,851
« Reply #78 on: March 08, 2022, 01:16:19 PM »
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pppolitics
Junior Chimp
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Posts: 5,851
« Reply #79 on: March 08, 2022, 04:09:26 PM »
Quote from: Storr on March 08, 2022, 02:00:39 PM
Big if true:


This should be common sense.

Imagine your neighbor's house is on fire.

You should try to help put out the fire before it spreads to your house.
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pppolitics
Junior Chimp
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Posts: 5,851
« Reply #80 on: March 08, 2022, 04:20:00 PM »


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pppolitics
Junior Chimp
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Posts: 5,851
« Reply #81 on: March 08, 2022, 04:22:40 PM »
Quote
In a statement, Poland's foreign ministry said: "The authorities of the Republic of Poland, after consultations between the president and the government, are ready to deploy - immediately and free of charge - all their MIG-29 jets to the Rammstein Air Base and place them at the disposal of the government of the United States of America.

"At the same time, Poland requests the United States to provide us with used aircraft with corresponding operational capabilities.

"Poland is ready to immediately establish the conditions of purchase of the planes.

"The Polish government also requests other NATO Allies - owners of MIG-29 jets - to act in the same vein."

However, State Department Undersecretary Victoria Nuland said: "To my knowledge, it wasn't pre-consulted with us that they planned to give these planes to us."

Speaking at the Senate Foreign Relations Committee, she added: "I look forward when this hearing is over to getting back to my desk and seeing how we will respond to this proposal of theirs to give the planes to us."

Security and defence analyst Michael Clarke, former director general of the Royal United Services Institute (RUSI), told Sky News: "The main thing as far as NATO is concerned is to get some aircraft into Ukraine that they can use.

https://news.sky.com/story/ukraine-war-poland-offers-all-of-its-mig-29-fighter-jets-to-us-in-plan-to-provide-aircraft-to-ukrainians-12561039?dcmp=snt-sf-twitter
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pppolitics
Junior Chimp
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Posts: 5,851
« Reply #82 on: March 09, 2022, 06:39:53 AM »
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pppolitics
Junior Chimp
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Posts: 5,851
« Reply #83 on: March 09, 2022, 07:56:02 PM »
Quote from: Yoda on March 09, 2022, 07:33:29 PM
Quote from: GoTfan on March 09, 2022, 05:07:52 PM
Quote from: Storr on March 09, 2022, 05:04:18 PM
Quote from: President Johnson on March 09, 2022, 04:40:56 PM
German news sources already report that a member of Lavrov's delegation said there would be "no concessions at all." Probably this meeting is just a waste of time.



At this point, it seems clear Russia is only conducting these meetings for propaganda purposes. Russia is using them as evidence at home that they are the side "wanting peace", as part of the brain dead narrative that the war is a defensive "special military operation".  

If I were Ukraine I'd stop playing along with Russia's games and refuse to meet (mentioning how the government is busy defending the country and doesn't have time to be lectured to) until the Russia is willing to offer significant concessions.

Russia's already laid out their red lines: DPR, LPR and Crimea recognition, as well as constitutional neutrality. That is their absolute limit; they won't accept anything less than that.

Also, I'll say it's very easy for us to say Ukraine should be aggressive in neogitations. Keep this in mind: Ukrainian forces are stuggling, and stuggling heavily. Their only way out of this is a negotiated peace.

That's just not true. There are other ways out of this. Are they palatable to Putin? No, but at this rate he's probably going to run out of shells and bombs before he is in any position to force Ukraine to surrender. The Ukranians have made it pretty clear they'd rather die than become slaves in all but name to a terrorist.

The Ukranians understand what is at stake.

Stalin intentionally starved 7 millions Ukranians to death during Holodomor.
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pppolitics
Junior Chimp
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Posts: 5,851
« Reply #84 on: March 09, 2022, 08:12:29 PM »


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pppolitics
Junior Chimp
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Posts: 5,851
« Reply #85 on: March 09, 2022, 08:14:01 PM »
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pppolitics
Junior Chimp
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Posts: 5,851
« Reply #86 on: March 09, 2022, 08:22:39 PM »


Quote
ISTANBUL — When President Vladimir V. Putin launched his invasion two weeks ago, he said a primary goal was the “denazification” of Ukraine. He referred to the Ukrainian government as a “gang of drug addicts and neo-Nazis,” making it clear that his aim was to topple it.

But in recent days, the language has shifted, with the Kremlin signaling that Mr. Putin is no longer bent on regime change in Kyiv. It is a subtle shift, and it may be a head-fake; but it is prompting officials who have scrambled to mediate to believe that Mr. Putin may be seeking a negotiated way out of a war that has become a much bloodier slog than he expected.

On Thursday, Foreign Minister Sergey V. Lavrov of Russia is expected to meet his Ukrainian counterpart, Dmytro Kuleba, in Turkey, in the highest-level talks between the two countries since the war began on Feb. 24. President Recep Tayyip Erdogan of Turkey, whose top diplomat has held a total of 10 calls with Mr. Lavrov and Mr. Kuleba since the start of the war, said on Wednesday that the meeting could “crack the door open to a permanent cease-fire.”

Leading up to the meeting, both sides have softened their public positions, though they remain far apart. Russia has narrowed its demands to focus on Ukrainian “neutrality” and the status of its Russian-occupied regions, and declared on Wednesday that Russia was not seeking to “overthrow” Ukraine’s government. President Volodymyr Zelensky of Ukraine on Tuesday suggested he was open to revising Ukraine’s constitutionally enshrined aspiration to join NATO, and even to a compromise over the status of Ukrainian territory now controlled by Russia.

“The changes are noticeable,” Ivan Timofeev, the director of programs at the government-funded Russian International Affairs Council, said of the evolution in Russia’s negotiating position. “This position has become more realistic.”

The Kremlin’s position now, according to comments this week by its spokesman, Dmitri S. Peskov, is that Ukraine must recognize Russian sovereignty over Crimea and the independence of the Russian-backed, separatist “people’s republics” in the country’s east and enshrine a status of neutrality in its constitution. That is still far from what Mr. Zelensky has said he would be willing to accept — and it could also puncture Mr. Putin’s strongman image at home, opening him up to criticism that he waged an enormous war for limited gain.

[...]
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pppolitics
Junior Chimp
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Posts: 5,851
« Reply #87 on: March 10, 2022, 01:25:17 PM »
Quote from: kwabbit on March 10, 2022, 12:34:59 PM
Quote from: Sir Mohamed 🇺🇸 🇺🇦 on March 10, 2022, 09:53:21 AM
Quote from: SirMapleGrove on March 10, 2022, 08:52:21 AM
Russia has now likely lost more troops than the US did in Iraq and Afghanistan combined.



Would be huge, though I'm still skeptical. Ukrainian figures are most likely an exaggeration to boost their fighting moral. Didn't the US estimate Russian losses at around 4k 2-3 days ago? Seems more plausible to me.

Anyway, it speaks volumes how Putin is ready to send his soldiers to death for his delusional Greater Russia fantasies.

6k dead is a lot in a modern war, but the Soviets did lose 8.7 Million in WWII. The sacrifice endured in World War II, which for Russians and Slavs was truly a war for survival as a people, is extremely important to Russian identity. Correspondingly, the sacrifice of lives to preserve Russia is a major national ethos. Anyone in Russia who views the war as important to Russia's security and future isn't blinking an eye.

The average Russian clearly don't see the invasion of Ukraine as essential to the survival of Russia.

That's why Putin is trying to hide it from the Russian public as much as possible.
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pppolitics
Junior Chimp
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Posts: 5,851
« Reply #88 on: March 10, 2022, 05:48:36 PM »
« Edited: March 10, 2022, 05:52:25 PM by pppolitics »
Quote from: Storr on March 10, 2022, 05:12:21 PM
Thank you Wikipedia editors:



He doesn't need to pay taxes on it either.

https://www.businessinsider.com/ukraines-tax-office-captured-russian-tanks-not-personal-taxable-income-2022-3
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pppolitics
Junior Chimp
*****
Posts: 5,851
« Reply #89 on: March 10, 2022, 09:12:02 PM »
Quote from: Storr on March 10, 2022, 09:05:05 PM
A good thread, imo. The key for Ukraine has always been time. The longer they fight, even if territory is lost, the more of a quagmire the war becomes for Russia.










As I said before, Ukraine probably gives up joining NATO and concedes Crimea to Russia.

Putin then gets to spin that back home as a win
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pppolitics
Junior Chimp
*****
Posts: 5,851
« Reply #90 on: March 10, 2022, 09:33:38 PM »
« Edited: March 10, 2022, 09:36:59 PM by pppolitics »
Quote from: Person Man on March 10, 2022, 09:23:31 PM
Quote from: pppolitics on March 10, 2022, 09:12:02 PM
Quote from: Storr on March 10, 2022, 09:05:05 PM
A good thread, imo. The key for Ukraine has always been time. The longer they fight, even if territory is lost, the more of a quagmire the war becomes for Russia.










As I said before, Ukraine probably gives up joining NATO and concedes Crimea to Russia.

Putin then gets to spin that back home as a win

Do they still get into the EU? They are probably too poor but it would be a bit of a deterrent.

Yes.

In turn, Ukraine gives up any claims of reparations.
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pppolitics
Junior Chimp
*****
Posts: 5,851
« Reply #91 on: March 10, 2022, 10:09:43 PM »
Quote from: Storr on March 10, 2022, 09:58:25 PM
Quote from: pppolitics link=topic=469771.msg8516928#msg8516928 date=16469660
[tweet
https://twitter.com/NotWoofers/status/1502077318465998848?s=20&t=p18 uid=13804]
Quote from: Person Man on March 10, 2022, 09:23:31 PM
Quote from: pppolitics on March 10, 2022, 09:12:02 PM
Quote from: Storr on March 10, 2022, 09:05:05 PM
A good thread, imo. The key for Ukraine has always been time. The longer they fight, even if territory is lost, the more of a quagmire the war becomes for Russia.

jNK-rLQjquvtlah-kYRxA[/tweet]







As I said before, Ukraine probably gives up joining NATO and concedes Crimea to Russia.

Putin then gets to spin that back home as a win

Do they still get into the EU? They are probably too poor but it would be a bit of a deterrent.

Yes.

In turn, Ukraine gives up any claims of reparations.
The problem is that Putin sees Ukrainian membership of NATO and the EU as one in the same. That's why Euromaidan happened in the first place, Putin pressured Yanukovych into not singing Ukraine's EU Association Agreement. The whole business about NATO expansion is just manufactured justification for Russia's aggressive actions. If NATO wasn't an issue, there would be something else used as justification. Moldova has neutrality written into the Constitution. But Russia still constantly meddles in and threatens the country for sole purpose of preventing it from integrating with Europe and pursuing EU membership.

Russia is just cutting its loss at this point.

In just about every way, Russian is worse off than before the invasion.

Russia renew NATO's vigor.

Russia's military becomes a joke.

Russia's economy is in the toilet.
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pppolitics
Junior Chimp
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Posts: 5,851
« Reply #92 on: March 10, 2022, 10:13:09 PM »
Quote from: Omega21 on March 10, 2022, 10:00:51 PM
Quote from: pppolitics on March 10, 2022, 09:33:38 PM
Quote from: Person Man on March 10, 2022, 09:23:31 PM
Quote from: pppolitics on March 10, 2022, 09:12:02 PM
Quote from: Storr on March 10, 2022, 09:05:05 PM
A good thread, imo. The key for Ukraine has always been time. The longer they fight, even if territory is lost, the more of a quagmire the war becomes for Russia.










As I said before, Ukraine probably gives up joining NATO and concedes Crimea to Russia.

Putin then gets to spin that back home as a win

Do they still get into the EU? They are probably too poor but it would be a bit of a deterrent.

Yes.

In turn, Ukraine gives up any claims of reparations.

I am with you on this one.

Basically I am still sticking with:

Quote from: Omega21 on February 25, 2022, 04:54:44 PM

A realistic solution might be:

Russian Crimea

Autonomous Donbas as part of Ukraine

Constitutional neutrality (Austria Style) with Russian guarantees in return

Ukraine can pursue EU


Only thing that might be different is Donbas, I can imagine the whole (de jure) region getting autonomy, but I can also imagine Ukraine renouncing the pre February 22 occupied areas, whilst maintaining federal control of the rest.

This scratches Putins itch for some kind of a "win", whilst also keeping Ukraine a viable & more stable nation with even more potential for the future, especially considering the level of Aid that the EU/US will pour in afterwards.

Quote from: Storr on March 10, 2022, 09:58:25 PM
Quote from: pppolitics on March 10, 2022, 09:33:38 PM
Quote from: Person Man on March 10, 2022, 09:23:31 PM
Quote from: pppolitics on March 10, 2022, 09:12:02 PM
Quote from: Storr on March 10, 2022, 09:05:05 PM
A good thread, imo. The key for Ukraine has always been time. The longer they fight, even if territory is lost, the more of a quagmire the war becomes for Russia.










As I said before, Ukraine probably gives up joining NATO and concedes Crimea to Russia.

Putin then gets to spin that back home as a win

Do they still get into the EU? They are probably too poor but it would be a bit of a deterrent.

Yes.

In turn, Ukraine gives up any claims of reparations.
The problem is that Putin sees Ukrainian membership of NATO and the EU as one in the same. That's why Euromaidan happened in the first place, Putin pressured Yanukovych into not singing Ukraine's EU Association Agreement. The whole business about NATO expansion is just manufactured justification for Russia's aggressive actions. If NATO wasn't the issue, there would be something else l used as justification. Moldova has neutrality written into the Constitution. But Russia still constantly meddles with and threatens the country for sole purpose of preventing it from integrating with Europe, and pursuing EU membership.

Ukraine giving up EU is like Russia giving up Crimea. Both are extremely unlikely to happen.

Russia cannot afford to keep this going indefinitely, but neither can Ukraine. Russia is losing men, Ukraine is losing territory & billions of infrastructure, so I assume that eventually both sides will cave in some regards.

You just read my mind.
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pppolitics
Junior Chimp
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Posts: 5,851
« Reply #93 on: March 10, 2022, 10:56:57 PM »
It's pretty obvious now that even if Putin succeed in overthrowing the Ukrainian government, Ukraine is going to turn into the new Afghanistan.
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pppolitics
Junior Chimp
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Posts: 5,851
« Reply #94 on: March 10, 2022, 10:59:01 PM »
Quote from: kwabbit on March 10, 2022, 10:39:57 PM
Quote from: pppolitics on March 10, 2022, 01:25:17 PM
Quote from: kwabbit on March 10, 2022, 12:34:59 PM
Quote from: Sir Mohamed 🇺🇸 🇺🇦 on March 10, 2022, 09:53:21 AM
Quote from: SirMapleGrove on March 10, 2022, 08:52:21 AM
Russia has now likely lost more troops than the US did in Iraq and Afghanistan combined.



Would be huge, though I'm still skeptical. Ukrainian figures are most likely an exaggeration to boost their fighting moral. Didn't the US estimate Russian losses at around 4k 2-3 days ago? Seems more plausible to me.

Anyway, it speaks volumes how Putin is ready to send his soldiers to death for his delusional Greater Russia fantasies.

6k dead is a lot in a modern war, but the Soviets did lose 8.7 Million in WWII. The sacrifice endured in World War II, which for Russians and Slavs was truly a war for survival as a people, is extremely important to Russian identity. Correspondingly, the sacrifice of lives to preserve Russia is a major national ethos. Anyone in Russia who views the war as important to Russia's security and future isn't blinking an eye.

The average Russian clearly don't see the invasion of Ukraine as essential to the survival of Russia.

That's why Putin is trying to hide it from the Russian public as much as possible.

Putin has fooled a majority of Russia. He still has the support of a supermajority of Russians, and while there are some reasons to doubt polling in an autocratic state, there are more reasons to believe the polls than doubt them.

While the war is a farce to anyone who has access to complete information, Russians don't have that access. Given how popular Putin continues to be, it should follow that the war has majority support and that many Russians have fallen for the propaganda that holds the war as essential to Russia's security. All of the protests indicate that there is anti-Putin sentiment, but using protests to infer the general mood of the population is faulty.

Russians care, first and foremost, about their bottom lines.

They are about to see a huge drop in their standard of living.

We'll see how popular Putin is then.
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pppolitics
Junior Chimp
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Posts: 5,851
« Reply #95 on: March 11, 2022, 12:23:49 PM »
Quote from: STAND WITH UKRAINE on March 11, 2022, 11:36:49 AM
Quote from: Badger on March 11, 2022, 10:53:29 AM
Quote from: STAND WITH UKRAINE on March 10, 2022, 08:13:14 PM
New changes on the frontlines:

The Russians have made it a bit closer to Kyiv, although they still have some distance to go. Bucha and Irpin remain on the frontlines. An attempted push through Brovary was repelled successfully by the Ukrainians, which complicates the potential encirclement of Kyiv. Although small gains were made in the west of Kyiv, it wasn’t anything huge for Russia.

On the bright side for Russian forces today, the city of Chernihiv is now completely encircled. Chernihiv not only is a major regional center, but also a historical/cultural hub in the area, and losing the city would be far more devastating on national morale as opposed to any previous losses.

Progress seems to have slowed down a bit, whether this is because the Russians are taking time to reorganize for a better offensive or due to Russian failures in accounting for logistics and/or combat performance remains to be seen.

https://www.cnn.com/europe/live-news/ukraine-russia-putin-news-03-10-22/h_a7f9e315b74913cd4d58f91015f3eba0

https://www.understandingwar.org/backgrounder/russian-offensive-campaign-assessment-march-10


 Wow, if even forum lurker is Reporting backsteps for the Russian military, the Ukrainian army will likely be marching int9 Moscow next week.
I’m not Russian biased lmao.
Everything I report is supported by Western sources. It’s just that this forum really is cherry-picking the times when Ukraine does well and trying to portray it as the complete truth. Look the fact is Russia still has made progress in Ukraine. Each day they do gain more land and another city/town. That is another loss of manpower and resources for Ukraine. Yes I love the videos of patriotic farmers taking military vehicles, but that doesn’t negate the frontline situation.

If anything this really is like the Winter War. While yes a huge moral blow to the Soviets and while the Finns did make a fool out of them…the Soviets still won what they wanted in the end.

At the end of the Winter War, one Soviet general said "We have won just about enough ground to bury our dead".

It was a pyrrhic victory.
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pppolitics
Junior Chimp
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Posts: 5,851
« Reply #96 on: March 13, 2022, 06:22:39 PM »
Quote from: Storr on March 13, 2022, 06:00:06 PM
In case you needed any additional evidence to convince you that Kadyrov and his goons are legitimately bad people:




Well, of cause.

They would get slaughtered fighting combat trained troops.
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pppolitics
Junior Chimp
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Posts: 5,851
« Reply #97 on: March 14, 2022, 09:27:49 PM »
Has anyone heard of this one before?

First they came for the Georgians, and I did not speak out—

     Because I was not a Georgian.

Then they came for the Ukrainians, and I did not speak out—

     Because I was not an Ukrainian.
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pppolitics
Junior Chimp
*****
Posts: 5,851
« Reply #98 on: March 14, 2022, 09:40:58 PM »
Quote from: emailking on March 14, 2022, 09:10:44 PM
I think everybody thinks the war is getting so bloody and likely to get worse that NATO will get involved, which obviously raises the nuclear stakes quite a bit. But I trust Biden to hold the line on this. No direct attack on Russian forces unless they attack a NATO member.

This is nothing but appeasement
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pppolitics
Junior Chimp
*****
Posts: 5,851
« Reply #99 on: March 14, 2022, 09:44:18 PM »
The only thing Putin understands is strength and the only thing we have been showing is weakness.

Biden disappoints me.
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