I am a democrat BUT... The democratic party needs to change.

[R.P. McM]

I'd rather just wait for them to die off, thanks.

"Hey Guys, let's start targeting racists and bigots!" isn't a valid response to a loss of 3% due to turnout.

The democrats are in much worse shape than they were in 2009 and soon will be worse than they were in 2012 despite Millianials and gen z having far more influence now .


Also lol at blaming the loss at turnout given Terry won more votes than Northam did 4 years ago lol . You can’t compare an presidential year to non presidential one directly as there are Millions of people who only do care about the presidential race

Due to glaring democratic deficiencies in our system and your party effectively pursuing authoritarian and anti-democratic means to cement the rule of the minority? Sure. Don't act like the majority of this country supports you -- y'all haven't had a President who won the popular vote in his first term since 1988, LOL.

You are correct about comparing Presidential and Off-Year elections. I mean; the fact is that the more people who vote, the more Democrats (usually) win. It's undeniable that minority and youth vote dropping drastically had a big impact.

Lol if elections were based on the popular vote , the nature of the campaigns themselves would change lol  . Also you are once again wrong about turnout and 2004, 2016, and 2020 should have disproved that point . Turnout massively  went up in 2004 and it benefited Bush , turnout increased from 2012 to 2016 and it benefited Trump and in 2020 turnout massively increased and it literally had basically no effect as 2020 was basically 2016 if most third party voters voted democratic .Also keeping in mind that T-Mac won more votes than Northam did yet he lost while Northam easily won .

Yes, exactly. The GOP would never have nominated a grotesque, unqualified, racist sexual predator. Which would be a wonderful thing. Republicans wouldn't have to answer for the treasonous acts of their leader, or the tens of thousands of unnecessary Covid deaths.

Also if you are complaining about senate allocation , the fact is it’s not gonna change so you better appeal to the voters the OP is talking about or you will be in the permanent minority in that chamber

No thanks. I just don't see any universe in which a political system continues to function when ~30% of the population controls ~70% of the Senate seats. It's a recipe for revolution, which would be immensely destructive to conservative interests. So it's time for Republicans such as yourself to start compromising. I certainly don't view you folks as patriots post-Trump, but it is your patriotic duty. Otherwise, if you insist on continuing to ratf**k at every available opportunity, you'll eventually reap the whirlwind. I no longer want to live alongside you, and the more you sabotage the political process, the more Democrats come to agree with me.

[R.P. McM]

I'd rather just wait for them to die off, thanks.

"Hey Guys, let's start targeting racists and bigots!" isn't a valid response to a loss of 3% due to turnout.

The democrats are in much worse shape than they were in 2009 and soon will be worse than they were in 2012 despite Millianials and gen z having far more influence now .


Also lol at blaming the loss at turnout given Terry won more votes than Northam did 4 years ago lol . You can’t compare an presidential year to non presidential one directly as there are Millions of people who only do care about the presidential race

Due to glaring democratic deficiencies in our system and your party effectively pursuing authoritarian and anti-democratic means to cement the rule of the minority? Sure. Don't act like the majority of this country supports you -- y'all haven't had a President who won the popular vote in his first term since 1988, LOL.

You are correct about comparing Presidential and Off-Year elections. I mean; the fact is that the more people who vote, the more Democrats (usually) win. It's undeniable that minority and youth vote dropping drastically had a big impact.

Lol if elections were based on the popular vote , the nature of the campaigns themselves would change lol  . Also you are once again wrong about turnout and 2004, 2016, and 2020 should have disproved that point . Turnout massively  went up in 2004 and it benefited Bush , turnout increased from 2012 to 2016 and it benefited Trump and in 2020 turnout massively increased and it literally had basically no effect as 2020 was basically 2016 if most third party voters voted democratic .Also keeping in mind that T-Mac won more votes than Northam did yet he lost while Northam easily won .

Yes, exactly. The GOP would never have nominated a grotesque, unqualified, racist sexual predator. Which would be a wonderful thing. Republicans wouldn't have to answer for the treasonous acts of their leader, or the tens of thousands of unnecessary Covid deaths.

Also if you are complaining about senate allocation , the fact is it’s not gonna change so you better appeal to the voters the OP is talking about or you will be in the permanent minority in that chamber

No thanks. I just don't see any universe in which a political system continues to function when ~30% of the population controls ~70% of the Senate seats. It's a recipe for revolution, which would be immensely destructive to conservative interests. So it's time for Republicans such as yourself to start compromising. I certainly don't view you folks as patriots post-Trump, but it is your patriotic duty. Otherwise, if you insist on continuing to ratf**k at every available opportunity, you'll eventually reap the whirlwind. I no longer want to live alongside you, and the more you sabotage the political process, the more Democrats come to agree with me.

Republicans were in the minority for 40 consecutive years in the house and no matter how much they whined about how unfair it was, they had to deal with that.

Yeah, 'cause most of the electorate didn't support GOP candidates. Except, occasionally, for president. You're advocating for an authoritarian system in which the GOP continues to exercise minority rule. Which is destined to fail spectacularly. I'm trying to save Republicans from themselves, but unlike the UK Tories, y'all just won't listen. Heaven help you.

[R.P. McM]

and yes many rural white people are racist. I’d rather have a world in which racism wasn’t central to their political identity and it wasn’t until fairly recently. Plenty of poor Black people are homophobic and anti-Semitic but that doesn’t mean they’re undeserving of economic justice and the same should go for poor white people in Appalachia. Their kids are innocent and deserve a shot at a better life, so do the children of poor people from any race.

Eh, if you think racism wasn't central to the political identity of downscale rural whites until recently, you need to crack open a history book. And the difference between white racism and black homophobia/antisemitism, to the degree it currently exists, is that we can actually win elections with the latter. We can win elections and pass progressive legislation with black voters. But we can't do the same with downscale rural whites, because their racism trumps everything else. They prefer a racist con artist to a reasonable, moderate Democrat.

[R.P. McM]

and yes many rural white people are racist. I’d rather have a world in which racism wasn’t central to their political identity and it wasn’t until fairly recently. Plenty of poor Black people are homophobic and anti-Semitic but that doesn’t mean they’re undeserving of economic justice and the same should go for poor white people in Appalachia. Their kids are innocent and deserve a shot at a better life, so do the children of poor people from any race.

Eh, if you think racism wasn't central to the political identity of downscale rural whites until recently, you need to crack open a history book. And the difference between white racism and black homophobia/antisemitism, to the degree it currently exists, is that we can actually win elections with the latter. We can win elections and pass progressive legislation with black voters. But we can't do the same with downscale rural whites, because their racism trumps everything else. They prefer a racist con artist to a reasonable, moderate Democrat.

Maybe stop nominating "reasonable moderate Democrats" who suck ass.

I'd love to see the results of Bernie vs. Trump in WV. In fact, since I'm never voting for an establishment Democrat ever again, I look forward to that very contest in 2024. I'm guessing the genuine populist is going to prevail over the racist fraud, no? Hahahahahahahahaha!

[R.P. McM]

and yes many rural white people are racist. I’d rather have a world in which racism wasn’t central to their political identity and it wasn’t until fairly recently. Plenty of poor Black people are homophobic and anti-Semitic but that doesn’t mean they’re undeserving of economic justice and the same should go for poor white people in Appalachia. Their kids are innocent and deserve a shot at a better life, so do the children of poor people from any race.

Eh, if you think racism wasn't central to the political identity of downscale rural whites until recently, you need to crack open a history book. And the difference between white racism and black homophobia/antisemitism, to the degree it currently exists, is that we can actually win elections with the latter. We can win elections and pass progressive legislation with black voters. But we can't do the same with downscale rural whites, because their racism trumps everything else. They prefer a racist con artist to a reasonable, moderate Democrat.

It hasn’t been central to their political identity at all times in all places. The decline of unions combined with Democrats completely abandoning any effort to win them over has made it so there’s no countervailing force. Racism at times has been the driving motive for white Americans of every economic strata, in the era of white flight it was for white suburbanites yet that doesn’t stop Democrats from aggressively courting them.

Whose fault is the decline of unions? Did it have anything to do with WWC voters supporting Nixon and Reagan? And did Humphrey, McGovern, and Mondale really abandon any effort to win over Southern whites, or did those voters abandon the Democratic Party for racist reasons? This can all be traced back to the 1960's, and yeah, poor whites chose to sacrifice their economic power on the altar of white power! A truly reprehensible act they repeated in 2016. So mee-maw and pee-paw have no one but themselves to blame.

And Democrats are aggressively courting educated white suburbanites because the party has made significant inroads in those communities in recent years. So, essentially, the exact opposite of what's transpired in AL, AR, KY, LA, MS, WV, etc. When poor whites show any inclination of voting Democratic, they too will be courted. But don't hold your breath!

[R.P. McM]

and yes many rural white people are racist. I’d rather have a world in which racism wasn’t central to their political identity and it wasn’t until fairly recently. Plenty of poor Black people are homophobic and anti-Semitic but that doesn’t mean they’re undeserving of economic justice and the same should go for poor white people in Appalachia. Their kids are innocent and deserve a shot at a better life, so do the children of poor people from any race.

Eh, if you think racism wasn't central to the political identity of downscale rural whites until recently, you need to crack open a history book. And the difference between white racism and black homophobia/antisemitism, to the degree it currently exists, is that we can actually win elections with the latter. We can win elections and pass progressive legislation with black voters. But we can't do the same with downscale rural whites, because their racism trumps everything else. They prefer a racist con artist to a reasonable, moderate Democrat.

It hasn’t been central to their political identity at all times in all places. The decline of unions combined with Democrats completely abandoning any effort to win them over has made it so there’s no countervailing force. Racism at times has been the driving motive for white Americans of every economic strata, in the era of white flight it was for white suburbanites yet that doesn’t stop Democrats from aggressively courting them.

Whose fault is the decline of unions? Did it have anything to do with WWC voters supporting Nixon and Reagan? And did Humphrey, McGovern, and Mondale really abandon any effort to win over Southern whites, or did those voters abandon the Democratic Party for racist reasons? This can all be traced back to the 1960's, and yeah, poor whites chose to sacrifice their economic power on the altar of white power! A truly reprehensible act they repeated in 2016. So mee-maw and pee-paw have no one but themselves to blame.

And Democrats are aggressively courting educated white suburbanites because the party has made significant inroads in those communities in recent years. So, essentially, the exact opposite of what's transpired in AL, AR, KY, LA, MS, WV, etc. When poor whites show any inclination of voting Democratic, they too will be courted. But don't hold your breath!

You don’t think Democrats themselves have some responsibility for the decline of unions? See NAFTA/Obama’s failure to pass card check.

I don’t think that Democrats would win whites in the Deep South which has never been unionized fo begin with and they were inevitably going to be lost to Democrats because of the civil rights act which was a worthwhile tradeoff. Appalachia and the rust belt are a different story though.

Some responsibility, but not much. As recent events have demonstrated, Democratic "leaders" are mostly feckless followers of popular/plutocratic opinion. The WWC overwhelmingly supported Reagan and Bush, so Clintonian triangulation and NAFTA were a foregone conclusion. And card check? I don't believe it ever made it to the Senate floor. But who do you imagine was more responsible for scuttling that legislation: Amy Klobuchar and John Kerry; or Blanche Lincoln and Evan Bayh?

[R.P. McM]

and yes many rural white people are racist. I’d rather have a world in which racism wasn’t central to their political identity and it wasn’t until fairly recently. Plenty of poor Black people are homophobic and anti-Semitic but that doesn’t mean they’re undeserving of economic justice and the same should go for poor white people in Appalachia. Their kids are innocent and deserve a shot at a better life, so do the children of poor people from any race.

Eh, if you think racism wasn't central to the political identity of downscale rural whites until recently, you need to crack open a history book. And the difference between white racism and black homophobia/antisemitism, to the degree it currently exists, is that we can actually win elections with the latter. We can win elections and pass progressive legislation with black voters. But we can't do the same with downscale rural whites, because their racism trumps everything else. They prefer a racist con artist to a reasonable, moderate Democrat.

It hasn’t been central to their political identity at all times in all places. The decline of unions combined with Democrats completely abandoning any effort to win them over has made it so there’s no countervailing force. Racism at times has been the driving motive for white Americans of every economic strata, in the era of white flight it was for white suburbanites yet that doesn’t stop Democrats from aggressively courting them.

Whose fault is the decline of unions? Did it have anything to do with WWC voters supporting Nixon and Reagan? And did Humphrey, McGovern, and Mondale really abandon any effort to win over Southern whites, or did those voters abandon the Democratic Party for racist reasons? This can all be traced back to the 1960's, and yeah, poor whites chose to sacrifice their economic power on the altar of white power! A truly reprehensible act they repeated in 2016. So mee-maw and pee-paw have no one but themselves to blame.

And Democrats are aggressively courting educated white suburbanites because the party has made significant inroads in those communities in recent years. So, essentially, the exact opposite of what's transpired in AL, AR, KY, LA, MS, WV, etc. When poor whites show any inclination of voting Democratic, they too will be courted. But don't hold your breath!

This was the county map in 1980






Also the reason Reagan won them over in 1984 is cause the economy massivley improved from 1980 to 1984

What's your point? We all know the Reagan campaign engaged in race-baiting, and won over multitudes of WWC Democrats as a result. Here are the more indicative maps, which catalog the demise of the Solid South for purely racial reasons: