Here's how Biden can defeat Trump in one sentence at the 2024 debates

[AltWorlder]

"Thank you Mr. President for all of the hard work your administration did to create the vaccines."

[DPKdebator]

No, if Biden said that he'd just be handing the issue to Trump on a golden platter since Trump can just respond by saying that the Biden administration was just finishing the program he started.

[AltWorlder]

No, if Biden said that he'd just be handing the issue to Trump on a golden platter since Trump can just respond by saying that the Biden administration was just finishing the program he started.

The point is that if the GOP continues to play to its anti-vaxx base, they will turn on Trump if he doesn't loudly recant Operation Warp Speed and for getting the government to support efforts to invent the vaccines in the first place.

The COVID vaccine is the one glaring issue where Trump has stumbled into having the opposite stance as his most fervent supporters.

They wouldn't vote Biden over him on it, but they could stay at home.

[BG-NY]

No, if Biden said that he'd just be handing the issue to Trump on a golden platter since Trump can just respond by saying that the Biden administration was just finishing the program he started.

The point is that if the GOP continues to play to its anti-vaxx base, they will turn on Trump if he doesn't loudly recant Operation Warp Speed and for getting the government to support efforts to invent the vaccines in the first place.

The COVID vaccine is the one glaring issue where Trump has stumbled into having the opposite stance as his most fervent supporters.

They wouldn't vote Biden over him on it, but they could stay at home.

Legal immigration is another.

[DPKdebator]

No, if Biden said that he'd just be handing the issue to Trump on a golden platter since Trump can just respond by saying that the Biden administration was just finishing the program he started.

The point is that if the GOP continues to play to its anti-vaxx base, they will turn on Trump if he doesn't loudly recant Operation Warp Speed and for getting the government to support efforts to invent the vaccines in the first place.

The COVID vaccine is the one glaring issue where Trump has stumbled into having the opposite stance as his most fervent supporters.

They wouldn't vote Biden over him on it, but they could stay at home.

I don't think it would play out that way. There probably aren't many voters whose contingency on supporting Trump vs staying home is Trump encouraging a vaccine. Other issues will be far more prevalent when it comes down to making a decision on how to vote.

[AltWorlder]

I guess it's possible that anti-vaccination/anti-mask/anti-lockdown people, COVID denialists, conspiracy theorists, etc. are just noisy but not a significant part of Trump's support base. Would like to see Pew polls eventually.

[Arizona Iced Tea]

Only one issue can hurt Trump among his base and that is illegal immigration. And Trump himself loves giving himself credit for the vaccines anyway, its not like he is avoiding that in the first place.

[AltWorlder]

I guess if it happens more than this one time, then him being pro-vaccines will be an issue. Until then it's just more cognitive dissonance from supporters.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eA306aNtvmk

[○∙◄☻¥tπ[╪AV┼cVê└]

No, if Biden said that he'd just be handing the issue to Trump on a golden platter since Trump can just respond by saying that the Biden administration was just finishing the program he started.

Yeah, this would be about as dumb as Biden saying "You would have beaten me 4 years ago had it not been for that NIH funded Wuhan Virology lab".

[AltWorlder]

No, if Biden said that he'd just be handing the issue to Trump on a golden platter since Trump can just respond by saying that the Biden administration was just finishing the program he started.

Yeah, this would be about as dumb as Biden saying "You would have beaten me 4 years ago had it not been for that NIH funded Wuhan Virology lab".

The point of it is to cause infighting by "praising" Trump for creating something that a segment of his supporters detest. The question is how many of his supporters have caught on to his role in it, or will it just go unanswered via cognitive dissonance.

https://twitter.com/Slate/status/1447054843093426177

Anti-vaccination certainly seems to be the big culture war at the present. But Trump hasn't gotten much flack for being pro-vaccine other than that time he was booed at that rally in August that I linked to.

[Senator-elect Spark]

Trump did January 6.

[AltWorlder]

https://twitter.com/disclosetv/status/1472987776786354177

News like this should really put Trump at odds with the anti-vaxxers in his own base.

[Absentee Voting Ghost of Ruin]

I guess it's possible that anti-vaccination/anti-mask/anti-lockdown people, COVID denialists, conspiracy theorists, etc. are just noisy but not a significant part of Trump's support base. Would like to see Pew polls eventually.

It's not that they're insignificant, it's that they're not rational.

I keep seeing people making this mistake. They keep pointing out the hypocritical, contradictory, self-negating arguments the right makes, and are then surprised when it has no impact. The overwhelming majority of Republican voters think about things from a pre-Enlightenment perspective. "Do I like this guy? Do his words make me feel good?" At most, they'll go with "I trust he'll do something that I personally really want, so I don't care about anything else". Everything else is just them justifying the decision they have already made.

If these people reasoned things out, they wouldn't hold the positions they do to begin with! If they ever do turn on Trump, it will be because they found a more preferable alternative, but it will entirely based on how his replacement makes them feel, not policy positions or actual concrete actions.

[Ferguson97]

Crediting Trump in the one area Biden consistently receives positive approvals from? What?

[AltWorlder]

Crediting Trump in the one area Biden consistently receives positive approvals from? What?

Because HIS OWN SUPPORTERS don't view it as positive, and the point is get them to reject him.

Are you people just completely unaware of anti-vaxxers? And that Trump somehow isn't one? And that there is a contradiction at play? And that if there was consistency, they would then have to either reject Trump or reject vaccine rejection? Are you just not reading any other post in this thread where I explain the hypothetical? I wish I could un-recommend posts that fail to read anything.

It's not that they're insignificant, it's that they're not rational.

I keep seeing people making this mistake. They keep pointing out the hypocritical, contradictory, self-negating arguments the right makes, and are then surprised when it has no impact. The overwhelming majority of Republican voters think about things from a pre-Enlightenment perspective. "Do I like this guy? Do his words make me feel good?" At most, they'll go with "I trust he'll do something that I personally really want, so I don't care about anything else". Everything else is just them justifying the decision they have already made.

If these people reasoned things out, they wouldn't hold the positions they do to begin with! If they ever do turn on Trump, it will be because they found a more preferable alternative, but it will entirely based on how his replacement makes them feel, not policy positions or actual concrete actions.

That is a fair point and you have engaged with my idea more than anyone else has in this thread, which I appreciate. I do wonder though if there's ever an issue that Trump could take that would be in direct opposition with his base that they would finally take issue with. Or more likely, someone more hardline somehow manages to gain traction to attack Trump from the right.

[President Johnson]

If anything, he should echo Reagan's words from 1980: Are you better off than you were four years ago?

That's actually what it will come down to anyway.

[Ferguson97]

Are you people just completely unaware of anti-vaxxers? And that Trump somehow isn't one? And that there is a contradiction at play? And that if there was consistency, they would then have to either reject Trump or reject vaccine rejection?

They're not smart enough to recognize the contradiction. Trump supporters already have dozens of contradictory beliefs, what's one more?

[Agonized-Statism]

The point is that if the GOP continues to play to its anti-vaxx base, they will turn on Trump if he doesn't loudly recant Operation Warp Speed and for getting the government to support efforts to invent the vaccines in the first place.

They would just play the "misinformation is necessary" card. Trump can never be wrong to them.

[progressive85]

First, he'd have to wake up in order to utter the sentence.

[AltWorlder]

Are you people just completely unaware of anti-vaxxers? And that Trump somehow isn't one? And that there is a contradiction at play? And that if there was consistency, they would then have to either reject Trump or reject vaccine rejection?

They're not smart enough to recognize the contradiction. Trump supporters already have dozens of contradictory beliefs, what's one more?

See, that’s a valid critique and rebuttal to my idea, because it indicates you’ve actually read and understood my point. Thank you.

[Chips]

While this seems clever, there's a way this could backfire.

If Biden said that, he could possibly sway some pro-vaccine independents Trump's way unintentionally.

[ElectionsGuy]

No, if Biden said that he'd just be handing the issue to Trump on a golden platter since Trump can just respond by saying that the Biden administration was just finishing the program he started.

The point is that if the GOP continues to play to its anti-vaxx base, they will turn on Trump if he doesn't loudly recant Operation Warp Speed and for getting the government to support efforts to invent the vaccines in the first place.

The COVID vaccine is the one glaring issue where Trump has stumbled into having the opposite stance as his most fervent supporters.

They wouldn't vote Biden over him on it, but they could stay at home.

https://www.pewresearch.org/ps_2021-09-15_covid19-restrictions_a-02/

3 months ago, 60% of Republicans were vaccinated, despite repeated claims that Republicans are "anti-vax". Almost like people don't care about reality and want to foist all undesirable traits onto an entire voter base.

[AltWorlder]

https://www.pewresearch.org/ps_2021-09-15_covid19-restrictions_a-02/

3 months ago, 60% of Republicans were vaccinated, despite repeated claims that Republicans are "anti-vax". Almost like people don't care about reality and want to foist all undesirable traits onto an entire voter base.

The anti-vax set, like the Stop the Steal believers, Q cultists, the Alex Jones anti-globalists, and other associated fringe thinkers going back to birthers have essentially taken a command role in the party. They're the ones with the most energy and loyalty towards Trump, they're the ones who make the most noise. So if they were to turn against him it would be absolutely significant.

Not to mention 60% vs. 86% Democrats is pretty glaring.

[AltWorlder]

https://twitter.com/quantian1/status/1539635811280474112

[MarkD]

Play a recording of a short excerpt from Trump's Jan. 2, 2021 phone call to Brad Raffensperger, then play a short clip of the video from Trump's appearance at the Jan. 4, 2021 campaign rally in Dalton, GA, and say, "Mr. Trump, we just heard recordings of you claiming that you 'won every single state' in the country; do you still stand by those statements? Do you still maintain that you won all 50 states in the 2020 election?"