What should the US federal minimum wage be?

[GregTheGreat657]

What should the US federal minimum wage be?

[Leroy McPherson fan]

The NY Times got it right in 1987.
https://mobile.twitter.com/larryelder/status/1123307254306861056

[Damocles]

I don’t know where it should be ideally, but I do know that the federal minimum wage should be at least $12.29 per hour in 2021. That is the $1.60 minimum wage from 1968, adjusted annually for inflation. The same should be true today with automatic adjustments, so we don’t have to keep re-fighting this issue.

The alternative to automatic annual adjustment is a situation where wages actually decline every year due to inflation, and business owners pocket the difference. Honest workers deserve honest paychecks, and it shouldn’t get harder to climb out of poverty with each passing year.

[CEO Mindset]

$0

there is no reason to make employment lucrative

[_.]

IMO The minimum wage should be decided by a mathematic algorithm at the county level

That'd never happen though so $12 - $18 seems alright

[AGA]

$12 phased in after a few years.

[MarkD]

The federal minimum wage should be $0.00, because, first of all, there are drastic differences in the cost of living among various regions of the country. Secondly, any minimum wage laws by any level of government - federal, state, or local - are economically foolish.

Supporters of minimum wage laws seem to have utterly stereotypical views about the personalities of all employers -- all employers are miserly, have the same scruples as Ebeneezer Scrooge, and have bottomless pits of profits with which they could easily pay their employees more, but simply choose not to because of the employers' greed.

Minimum wage laws inflate the price of labor, particularly in low-skilled fields of employment, above the level which it would have been in a free market. That inflation of the price of labor either results in the employers raising the price of what they sell to the consuming public, or it causes unemployment, as employers decide that they cannot afford the inflated price of labor and thus have to cut costs by eliminating jobs. Make no mistake that jobs have been eliminated by minimum wage laws, starting with the first-time creation of any minimum wage law, and continuing with every increase in the minimum wage.

Were you aware that the Supreme Court used to strike down every minimum wage law it looked at, because of how economically foolish those laws are? The first time the Court did so was 98 years ago, in the case of Adkins v. Children's Hospital. That law was adopted by Congress and it affected just female workers in the District of Columbia. The next three times the Court struck down minimum wage laws were cases in which the laws were adopted by states and also affected just female workers; Murphy v. Sardell, Donham v. West-Nelson Mfg Co., Morehead v. New York ex rel. Tipaldo. (Don't bother trying to look up Murphy and Donham on the internet because they're not available, but those two cases are referenced in the Morehead opinion, which is available.) I do not at all agree with the constitutional interpretation that underpinned any of those four decisions, but I do completely agree with the Court's findings about how foolish those laws were.

In the Court's opinion in the first case, it pointed out that one of the litigants who was challenging the constitutionality of the D.C. minimum wage law was ....

a woman twenty-one years of age, [who] was employed by the Congress Hall Hotel Company as an elevator operator, at a salary of $35 per month and two meals a day. She alleges that the work was light and healthful, the hours short, with surroundings clean and moral, and that she was anxious to continue it for the compensation she was receiving, and that she did not earn more. Her services were satisfactory to the Hotel Company, and it would have been glad to retain her but was obliged to dispense with her services by reason of the [new minimum wage law] and on account of the penalties prescribed by the act. The wages received by this appellee were the best she was able to obtain for any work she was capable of performing, and the enforcement of the [law], she alleges, deprived her of such employment and wages. She further averred that she could not secure any other position at which she could make a living, with as good physical and moral surroundings, and earn as good wages, and that she was desirous of continuing and would continue the employment but for the [law].

Do you ever see anyone working as an elevator operator anymore? That's just one of many kinds of jobs that have been eliminated from the workforce because of minimum wage laws.

About four years ago I found a series of videos on Facebook which, when put together back-to-back, created a film about 25 minutes long which pointed out how minimum wage laws hurt young, unskilled people who are seeking their first job. Here is the complete video, called "Freedom on Trial."
https://www.libertarianism.org/media/video-collection/freedom-trial

[Damocles]

Secondly, any minimum wage laws by any level of government - federal, state, or local - are economically foolish.

And who exactly do you expect businesses to sell products to, if their customer base has close to no discretionary income?

[progressive85]

I think it's different honestly for different industries. 

Minimum wage is not living wage, it's not enough in Boston to get by... not these days anymore.

Maybe in a smaller town it's fine if you are a teenager saving up money.

I don't want a federal wage (because you can't accurately assign a wage across the board and the wage they do assign is insufficient anyway),

I want a federal budget that is very generous for everyone, that instead helps people who really want to work or are working get by with supplemental income.

There's a better way to do this then dictations from the federal government.

[Ferguson97]

IMO The minimum wage should be decided by a mathematic algorithm at the county level

I completely agree. Someone in Manhattan and someone in rural Kentucky and someone in suburban Arizona all have completely different costs of living, and it's ridiculous to suggest that their floor should be the same (assuming we agree that a minimum wage should be a living wage).

Base it off the COL in New York, and businesses in Kentucky will fail.

Base it of the COL in Kentucky, and New Yorkers will be in poverty.

[Grumpier Than Uncle Joe]

Let's just abolish it and let the free market take care of it.

[🐒Gods of Prosperity🔱🐲💸]

Why does 1st option include "besides that you must pay your employees something"? 
Isn't an employee who isn't paid just a volunteer? 

[Antonio the Sixth]

Why does 1st option include "besides that you must pay your employees something"? 
Isn't an employee who isn't paid just a volunteer? 

Or an intern who's getting paid in experience

[Person Man]

Let's just abolish it and let the free market take care of it.

What's that?

In reality, it would be better if there was a free market rather than one riddled with monopsonies and regulatory capture.

15 an hour is probably too high but we should probably index it at whatever the percentage of median income where it is determined to be the highest without causing an unacceptable level of price instability or unemployment.  Probably 11 or 12 but it could be only a little higher than what it is now.

[TheElectoralBoobyPrize]

Raise it to $10 for now and then gradually to $15.

[Santander]

There should be no minimum wage for US citizens and permanent residents. There should be a minimum wage for hiring foreign workers, set by SOC code and reviewed periodically by DOL, to discourage employers from undercutting American workers by importing cheap labor. (obviously, they could offshore the jobs instead, but that's another discussion)

[TiltsAreUnderrated]

There should be no minimum wage for US citizens and permanent residents. There should be a minimum wage for hiring foreign workers, set by SOC code and reviewed periodically by DOL, to discourage employers from undercutting American workers by importing cheap labor. (obviously, they could offshore the jobs instead, but that's another discussion)

This is pretty disconnected from reality. “A minimum wage, but only for foreigners” would be political suicide.

[Southern Reactionary Dem]

Between 15-20 dollars along with a CEO salary cap (20-25x the lowest paid worker) and profit sharing law that places a minimum percentage of yearly profits that must be used for non executive salaries.

[Donerail]

Were you aware that the Supreme Court used to strike down every minimum wage law it looked at, because of how economically foolish those laws are? The first time the Court did so was 98 years ago, in the case of Adkins v. Children's Hospital. That law was adopted by Congress and it affected just female workers in the District of Columbia. The next three times the Court struck down minimum wage laws were cases in which the laws were adopted by states and also affected just female workers; Murphy v. Sardell, Donham v. West-Nelson Mfg Co., Morehead v. New York ex rel. Tipaldo. (Don't bother trying to look up Murphy and Donham on the internet because they're not available, but those two cases are referenced in the Morehead opinion, which is available.) I do not at all agree with the constitutional interpretation that underpinned any of those four decisions, but I do completely agree with the Court's findings about how foolish those laws were.

?? Every Supreme Court case is available on the internet.

Here is the full text of the Court's opinion in Donham:

PER CURIAM.
Affirmed on the authority of Adkins v. Children's Hospital of the District of Columbia, 261 U. S. 525; Murphy v. Sardell, 269 U.S. 530. Mr. Justice BRANDEIS dissents.

And the full text of Murphy:

PER CURIAM.
The judgment of the District Court is affirmed upon the authority of Adkins v. Children's Hospital, 261 U.S. 525. Mr. Justice Holmes requests that it be stated that his concurrence is solely upon the ground that he regards himself bound by the decision in Adkins v. Children's Hospital. Mr. Justice Brandeis dissents.

[Santander]

Between 15-20 dollars along with a CEO salary cap (20-25x the lowest paid worker) and profit sharing law that places a minimum percentage of yearly profits that must be used for non executive salaries.

The CEO of Walmart should earn $600k a year?... lol. The only thing this would cause is employers to find ways to shed employees from their payroll, either hiring them as 1099 contractors or contracting out entire segments of staff to small businesses that would be unable to afford decent wages or benefits, e.g. what Amazon does for many last mile delivery workers.

[Santander]

There should be no minimum wage for US citizens and permanent residents. There should be a minimum wage for hiring foreign workers, set by SOC code and reviewed periodically by DOL, to discourage employers from undercutting American workers by importing cheap labor. (obviously, they could offshore the jobs instead, but that's another discussion)

This is pretty disconnected from reality. “A minimum wage, but only for foreigners” would be political suicide.

Well, it couldn't actually be done through the minimum wage, for obvious reasons. It would be done through a wage floor on work permits.

[Southern Reactionary Dem]

Between 15-20 dollars along with a CEO salary cap (20-25x the lowest paid worker) and profit sharing law that places a minimum percentage of yearly profits that must be used for non executive salaries.

The CEO of Walmart should earn $600k a year?... lol. The only thing this would cause is employers to find ways to shed employees from their payroll, either hiring them as 1099 contractors or contracting out entire segments of staff to small businesses that would be unable to afford decent wages or benefits, e.g. what Amazon does for many last mile delivery workers.

Yes. The CEO of Walmart can live quite comfortably on 600K per year. And that's fine, but those contracting services wouldn't be able to pay their workers so little either, so it's not like Walmart is saving money.

[RI]

$0 with a healthy NIT.

[Santander]

Between 15-20 dollars along with a CEO salary cap (20-25x the lowest paid worker) and profit sharing law that places a minimum percentage of yearly profits that must be used for non executive salaries.

The CEO of Walmart should earn $600k a year?... lol. The only thing this would cause is employers to find ways to shed employees from their payroll, either hiring them as 1099 contractors or contracting out entire segments of staff to small businesses that would be unable to afford decent wages or benefits, e.g. what Amazon does for many last mile delivery workers.

Yes. The CEO of Walmart can live quite comfortably on 600K per year. And that's fine, but those contracting services wouldn't be able to pay their workers so little either, so it's not like Walmart is saving money.

lol. You are saying the CEO of Walmart should make the same as a random mid-level executive at a company 1/100th the size. And the point is not about saving money, it's about changing the wage mix to allow senior management to earn what they deserve.

A fair salary for the CEO of Walmart is around $20m a year. But that's okay, because it is a very important job, and there's only a few dozen CEOs of that stature in the world.

[Meclazine for Israel]

$22 per hour.

That would encourage people to work.

One of the effects of COVID lockdown is we cannot find enough workers. So the jobs that are coming up are really good jobs. Not brain dead automatonic master classes in dehumanising your soul.

And pride in your work creates long term confidence.