Can a very feminine woman be elected today as President of the United States?

[progressive85]

I consider myself a very feminine, girly girl kind of woman... maybe not 100% of the time (i too have a day when I don't feel like putting my makeup on), but people perceive me as very girly and soft and sweet-natured.

Yet I love politics and I want to run for public office... and I just wanted to talk about gender roles and gender expression as they pertain to leadership and to earning the trust of the electorate.

We have some very strong-willed, tough "Iron" ladies that tower over the rest- Margaret Thatcher, Golda Meir, Angela Merkel... these are women who are very commanding in presence, they are viewed as tough negotiators and characterized as very capable, very astute kinds of leaders.

We of course in the USA have no precedent of what a woman president would be, and Kamala Harris may be the first, but she may also not be the first... and so it may actually be a while before a woman does break that highest, hardest glass ceiling and changes everything we know about what being a Commander in Chief means in America.

I personally think as hated as she was, Hillary Rodham Clinton remains the closest thing we know to getting to the first woman president.  After all, only one woman in all of U.S. history has been elected popularly by the people as the President of the United States... and that is her, by more than a million votes (3 mil is it?).

So we've already gotten there, it's just that due to the electoral college of course we were prevented from having her... had she won in 2016, I think it is highly unlikely that we'd even have a President Joe Biden.

So I just wanted to pose the question to the whole forum:

Can a woman that is very stereotypically feminine/girly (sweet voice, girly mannerisms, wears dresses instead of slacks, has long wavy hair, lots of makeup on, wears high heels, uses words like "Honey" and "Sweetie") be taken seriously by the public?  

Do you feel a girly girl president would be more embraced by women than the Hillary type would be?
Do you feel that if a woman possesses a certain kind of beauty and youth that she would be much more likely to win over a woman that was over 60 and not viewed as physically attractive in any way?

Also, how would the military (both the top brass and the everyday American soldier, which skews male - think Marines and Navy SEALs) how would they look at her?  Would they believe her to be capable of leading the nation in a major war?  Would they trust her judgment at all?

so some questions for y'all to ponder, thank u so much

[Fmr. Gov. NickG]

Would Michelle Obama count?

[Alben Barkley]

I have put several of your posts, including this one, through AI text analyzers designed to determine a writer's gender.

The vast majority have you squarely pegged as a male.

Just saying...

I did so in the first place because your posts scream "male LARPing as female" a trillion times more than they do "actual bona fide female." Plus almost anyone on Atlas claiming to be female (aside from PQG and a couple others) is immediately suspect given the sausage factory that is this site.

If I'm wrong, I'll eat my words, but I just have to say it: I do not believe you are a woman, OP. Not for a second.

[Sol]

I have put several of your posts, including this one, through AI text analyzers designed to determine a writer's gender.

The vast majority have you squarely pegged as a male.

Just saying...

I did so in the first place because your posts scream "male LARPing as female" a trillion times more than they do "actual bona fide female." Plus almost anyone on Atlas claiming to be female (aside from PQG and a couple others) is immediately suspect given the sausage factory that is this site.

If I'm wrong, I'll eat my words, but I just have to say it: I do not believe you are a woman, OP. Not for a second.

Very charming. Glad we have pleasant guys like you on the site.

[Santander]

I have put several of your posts, including this one, through AI text analyzers designed to determine a writer's gender.

The vast majority have you squarely pegged as a male.

Just saying...

I did so in the first place because your posts scream "male LARPing as female" a trillion times more than they do "actual bona fide female." Plus almost anyone on Atlas claiming to be female (aside from PQG and a couple others) is immediately suspect given the sausage factory that is this site.

If I'm wrong, I'll eat my words, but I just have to say it: I do not believe you are a woman, OP. Not for a second.

Very charming. Glad we have pleasant guys like you on the site.

He is absolutely right.

[Okay, maybe Mike Johnson is a competent parliamentarian.]

I have put several of your posts, including this one, through AI text analyzers designed to determine a writer's gender.

The vast majority have you squarely pegged as a male.

Just saying...

I did so in the first place because your posts scream "male LARPing as female" a trillion times more than they do "actual bona fide female." Plus almost anyone on Atlas claiming to be female (aside from PQG and a couple others) is immediately suspect given the sausage factory that is this site.

If I'm wrong, I'll eat my words, but I just have to say it: I do not believe you are a woman, OP. Not for a second.

I'm not convinced OP is entirely honest about who they are and what they're like either, but you in particular are not a very good messenger for this, Alben, for reasons of which we're all well aware.

[Hammy]

I have put several of your posts, including this one, through AI text analyzers designed to determine a writer's gender.

The vast majority have you squarely pegged as a male.

Just saying...

I did so in the first place because your posts scream "male LARPing as female" a trillion times more than they do "actual bona fide female." Plus almost anyone on Atlas claiming to be female (aside from PQG and a couple others) is immediately suspect given the sausage factory that is this site.

If I'm wrong, I'll eat my words, but I just have to say it: I do not believe you are a woman, OP. Not for a second.

This is one of the worst posts on Atlas.

[President of the great nation of 🏳️‍⚧️]

I have put several of your posts, including this one, through AI text analyzers designed to determine a writer's gender.

The vast majority have you squarely pegged as a male.

Just saying...

I did so in the first place because your posts scream "male LARPing as female" a trillion times more than they do "actual bona fide female." Plus almost anyone on Atlas claiming to be female (aside from PQG and a couple others) is immediately suspect given the sausage factory that is this site.

If I'm wrong, I'll eat my words, but I just have to say it: I do not believe you are a woman, OP. Not for a second.

Well, considering the OP has admitted to being trans, I don't think it's a very smart idea to call her a liar. (Also, now I'm kind of self-conscious about how my writing style is primarily male as well.)

[Mr. Smith]

Back on topic...

I think the answer is yes, but only if the nominee is Republican.

[Alben Barkley]

I have put several of your posts, including this one, through AI text analyzers designed to determine a writer's gender.

The vast majority have you squarely pegged as a male.

Just saying...

I did so in the first place because your posts scream "male LARPing as female" a trillion times more than they do "actual bona fide female." Plus almost anyone on Atlas claiming to be female (aside from PQG and a couple others) is immediately suspect given the sausage factory that is this site.

If I'm wrong, I'll eat my words, but I just have to say it: I do not believe you are a woman, OP. Not for a second.

Well, considering the OP has admitted to being trans, I don't think it's a very smart idea to call her a liar. (Also, now I'm kind of self-conscious about how my writing style is primarily male as well.)

I actually did not know this, I thought OP claimed to be a cis woman. She certainly acts like she's trying a little too hard to be one, in any case. To the point it backfires. If you really want to "pass" as a woman, you should probably note that most women do not go around constantly talking about how they are dainty sexy feminine housewives and such. That kind of exaggerated stereotype LARPing does not exactly go against the arguments of the TERFs, either, to be frank...

[Alben Barkley]

I have put several of your posts, including this one, through AI text analyzers designed to determine a writer's gender.

The vast majority have you squarely pegged as a male.

Just saying...

I did so in the first place because your posts scream "male LARPing as female" a trillion times more than they do "actual bona fide female." Plus almost anyone on Atlas claiming to be female (aside from PQG and a couple others) is immediately suspect given the sausage factory that is this site.

If I'm wrong, I'll eat my words, but I just have to say it: I do not believe you are a woman, OP. Not for a second.

I'm not convinced OP is entirely honest about who they are and what they're like either, but you in particular are not a very good messenger for this, Alben, for reasons of which we're all well aware.

Again, had no clue OP claimed to be trans. In any case, somebody had to say it if even you were thinking the same thing. And since I already clearly have a "reputation" when it comes to this kind of thing, why shouldn't I take the bullet and be the one to say it? Hell, it spares the rest of you from being called transphobes too! You should consider it an act of kindness on my part!

And TBH I'm not even totally convinced OP is even a trans woman. It all just seems like an exaggerated act that's way too over the top. Actually seems kinda offensive to both trans and cis women IMO.

[President Punxsutawney Phil]

Again, had no clue OP claimed to be trans. In any case, somebody had to say it if even you were thinking the same thing. TBH I'm not even totally convinced OP is even a trans woman. It all just seems like an exaggerated act that's way too over the top. Actually seems kinda offensive to both trans and cis women IMO.

Now that you mention it, there does seem to be some lowkey r/menwritingwomen vibes coming   from this poster...

[If my soul was made of stone]

I have put several of your posts, including this one, through AI text analyzers designed to determine a writer's gender.

The vast majority have you squarely pegged as a male.

Just saying...

I did so in the first place because your posts scream "male LARPing as female" a trillion times more than they do "actual bona fide female." Plus almost anyone on Atlas claiming to be female (aside from PQG and a couple others) is immediately suspect given the sausage factory that is this site.

If I'm wrong, I'll eat my words, but I just have to say it: I do not believe you are a woman, OP. Not for a second.

Well, considering the OP has admitted to being trans, I don't think it's a very smart idea to call her a liar. (Also, now I'm kind of self-conscious about how my writing style is primarily male as well.)

I actually did not know this, I thought OP claimed to be a cis woman. She certainly acts like she's trying a little too hard to be one, in any case. To the point it backfires. If you really want to "pass" as a woman, you should probably note that most women do not go around constantly talking about how they are dainty sexy feminine housewives and such. That kind of exaggerated stereotype LARPing does not exactly go against the arguments of the TERFs, either, to be frank...

If that's her preferred gender expression, I see no problem with her expressing that. Too often the dogma around "passing" leans too heavily towards the side of trans people giving up their identities in order to conform to what a hostile society expects from them, rather than proudly claiming the identity that some want to deprive them of. If you take umbrage at that, you are by no means obligated to be loud about it.

[Santander]

I have put several of your posts, including this one, through AI text analyzers designed to determine a writer's gender.

The vast majority have you squarely pegged as a male.

Just saying...

I did so in the first place because your posts scream "male LARPing as female" a trillion times more than they do "actual bona fide female." Plus almost anyone on Atlas claiming to be female (aside from PQG and a couple others) is immediately suspect given the sausage factory that is this site.

If I'm wrong, I'll eat my words, but I just have to say it: I do not believe you are a woman, OP. Not for a second.

This is one of the worst posts on Atlas.

I'm going to double down and say this is best post he's ever made. Not the highest bar, but still. It needed to be said. Remember "Audrey"?

[Alben Barkley]

I have put several of your posts, including this one, through AI text analyzers designed to determine a writer's gender.

The vast majority have you squarely pegged as a male.

Just saying...

I did so in the first place because your posts scream "male LARPing as female" a trillion times more than they do "actual bona fide female." Plus almost anyone on Atlas claiming to be female (aside from PQG and a couple others) is immediately suspect given the sausage factory that is this site.

If I'm wrong, I'll eat my words, but I just have to say it: I do not believe you are a woman, OP. Not for a second.

This is one of the worst posts on Atlas.

I'm going to double down and say this is best post he's ever made. Not the highest bar, but still. It needed to be said. Remember "Audrey"?

Dear Santander, I wrote you but you still ain't calling...
 
Don't worry buddy, I'll always be a fan even if the feeling ain't mutual!

[Sol]

In any case, Alben being unpleasant is actually distracting from the question proposed in the OP, which, presentation aside, is a pretty interesting one!

[Alben Barkley]

In any case, Alben being unpleasant is actually distracting from the question proposed in the OP, which, presentation aside, is a pretty interesting one!

OK, here's a serious answer, whether you consider it "pleasant" or not: Yeah I think it's possible a fairly feminine woman could be elected as POTUS eventually. I have said in previous posts that I think there's a case to be made, however, that a more masculine-seeming woman, even a lesbian, might have a better chance due to ingrained stereotypes in many people which associate masculinity with leadership, rightly or wrongly. That said, I also think a woman who seems feminine and attractive would have her own advantages in an election. Like, I wouldn't even count out Kristi Noem from winning the GOP nomination next time.

I don't think it's the MOST likely thing to happen yet by any means, but I wouldn't rule it out completely.

[HagridOfTheDeep]

I have put several of your posts, including this one, through AI text analyzers designed to determine a writer's gender.

The vast majority have you squarely pegged as a male.

Just saying...

I did so in the first place because your posts scream "male LARPing as female" a trillion times more than they do "actual bona fide female." Plus almost anyone on Atlas claiming to be female (aside from PQG and a couple others) is immediately suspect given the sausage factory that is this site.

If I'm wrong, I'll eat my words, but I just have to say it: I do not believe you are a woman, OP. Not for a second.

Well, considering the OP has admitted to being trans, I don't think it's a very smart idea to call her a liar. (Also, now I'm kind of self-conscious about how my writing style is primarily male as well.)

I actually did not know this, I thought OP claimed to be a cis woman. She certainly acts like she's trying a little too hard to be one, in any case. To the point it backfires. If you really want to "pass" as a woman, you should probably note that most women do not go around constantly talking about how they are dainty sexy feminine housewives and such. That kind of exaggerated stereotype LARPing does not exactly go against the arguments of the TERFs, either, to be frank...

Yikes. Policing how a trans woman acts because she seems, to you, simultaneously too womanly but also not womanly enough is a really gross look. “To be frank,” you are literally mansplaining how to be a woman. I’ll grant that it comes close to being a hilarious self-parody, but it’s just too cringe to land.

[Alben Barkley]

I have put several of your posts, including this one, through AI text analyzers designed to determine a writer's gender.

The vast majority have you squarely pegged as a male.

Just saying...

I did so in the first place because your posts scream "male LARPing as female" a trillion times more than they do "actual bona fide female." Plus almost anyone on Atlas claiming to be female (aside from PQG and a couple others) is immediately suspect given the sausage factory that is this site.

If I'm wrong, I'll eat my words, but I just have to say it: I do not believe you are a woman, OP. Not for a second.

Well, considering the OP has admitted to being trans, I don't think it's a very smart idea to call her a liar. (Also, now I'm kind of self-conscious about how my writing style is primarily male as well.)

I actually did not know this, I thought OP claimed to be a cis woman. She certainly acts like she's trying a little too hard to be one, in any case. To the point it backfires. If you really want to "pass" as a woman, you should probably note that most women do not go around constantly talking about how they are dainty sexy feminine housewives and such. That kind of exaggerated stereotype LARPing does not exactly go against the arguments of the TERFs, either, to be frank...

Yikes. Policing how a trans woman acts because she seems, to you, simultaneously too womanly but also not womanly enough is a really gross look. “To be frank,” you are literally mansplaining how to be a woman. I’ll grant that it comes close to being a hilarious self-parody, but it’s just too cringe to land.

For the third time, I had no idea OP claimed to be a trans woman. All I can say is that the writing seemed to VERY much resemble MANY instances I have seen in the past of "men writing women" which set off certain red flags. Clearly I am not alone in thinking that, even among people much farther left than me who don't have the same reputation I have on these issues. (And AGAIN, I didn't even know this was such an issue when I originally posted.) So acting as if what I said is just some ridiculous nonsense with no fair and reasonable basis is just clearly, blatantly untrue. Like it or not. There is no inherent contradiction whatsoever between trying to sound like an exaggerated, stereotypical caricature of a woman (which no actual woman ever talks like) and actually giving away that you are most likely a man. In fact, it's pretty much impossible to do the former without also doing the latter, for what should be self-evident reasons.

[free my dawg]

I'm not drunk enough for this.

[Damocles]

This thread is blursed and I both love and hate it. Anyone want some popcorn?

[○∙◄☻¥tπ[╪AV┼cVê└]

Kirsten Gillibrand didn't do well if that's what we're talking about.

[progressive85]

I have put several of your posts, including this one, through AI text analyzers designed to determine a writer's gender.

The vast majority have you squarely pegged as a male.

Just saying...

I did so in the first place because your posts scream "male LARPing as female" a trillion times more than they do "actual bona fide female." Plus almost anyone on Atlas claiming to be female (aside from PQG and a couple others) is immediately suspect given the sausage factory that is this site.

If I'm wrong, I'll eat my words, but I just have to say it: I do not believe you are a woman, OP. Not for a second.

I'm actually a trans woman.

I'll share with you my picture.  It's my actual face with a wig - the original is much more homely because even though I did put makeup on, it doesn't really show very well unless you add it with the makeup apps.  I am very poor - I live on $113 a week (a cut of $27 this year) from SSI benefits due to a long history of mental health recovery, and also I am blessed to have the EBT card from the food stamps program.



I don't really feel weird about showing it.  I'm proud to be who I am and I'm proud I'm come so far in my life.

This year has not been easy for me.  I had a nervous breakdown back in August - two ERs, two crisis unit stays with three extensions, there's been periods when I've literally spent every day and night on the bathroom floor crying in agony and screaming at the wall. 

I wouldn't wish this life on anyone, not even my worst enemy.  It is no way to live.  You receive such hostility from society, such cruelty and it defies all logic because people just look at you and laugh.

I'm the subject of ridicule and mockery, and I've never been accepted as anything but "the other".

So all I can say is that my gender is female because I have always believed it to be so.  I shouldn't really have to prove that I am a woman because quite honestly it's nobody's damn business what my genitalia is, and I don't need to be validated by every single person in the world.

I don't want to be a "thing" and that's what transphobic people do when they cancel us, they deadname us, they deliberately go out of their way to brand us as "male" (trans women, that is) because they think they can use that as a weapon to hurt us and make us "less than" them.

I don't really get why people have to judge trans people.  I mean, we're not really doing anything that interferes with your life.  Even if we need to pee and use the bathroom, that's not really something the State should be concerned about. 

Trans women have taken enormous hits this year, more than probably any year ever before.  There is so much hostility towards us it's unbelievable.  And so much of it was pushed by the right wing, the "traditionalists", the religious conservatives and the fundamentalists... they are still very unhappy about Obergefell and that there are now gay boys in elementary school now who proudly express their affectionate crushes on other boys, just as straight kids have been doing forever.

The world is changing, and for some people who never really wanted it to go in this direction, this is all too much for them.  If you can't accept boys wanting to take other boys to the prom and dance with them, if you can't accept the idea of preteen boys headlining pride events with their drag queen performances... well of course the idea of trans girls playing on the girls' volleyball team at high school, and the reality that you very well likely have already been in the same bathroom as a trans person - for most of you I imagine that would mean trans boys in the same bathrooms as you... well of course it stands to reason that you can't handle any of these changes that are happening in the society.

But nothing you do is going to return us to June 27, 1969 (the night before the Stonewall Riots).  Nothing you do can erase millennia of gay and transgender history, which all predates the invention of modern day religious dogma itself and the creation of Judaism, Christianity, and Islam.

I never understood the obsession the religious right, and the broader modern conservative movement in America has with LGBTQ people.  I mean, surely even the most bigoted people must have relatives and friends that are part of this community.

There are more trans people in this country - and in rural, conservative areas - than you would ever know.  So many of them are hiding, so many are closeted, so many of them are at different points in their transitions. 

You could very well conceive a child that is gay or transgender or queer in some way.  It's very possible that might happen to you, whether or not you want it to happen.

Because no matter what anyone says, the Rainbow people (LGBTQ) are here on God's Earth because they're meant to be here. 

Gay and trans are very different things - one is about your romantic attractions and desires, and who you fall in love with and marry, and the other one is about your innate brain sex, which develops, like your orientation, during fetal development.

You're not "born a man".  You don't chop off your dick.  You don't "pretend to be a woman" or try and fool or entrap heterosexual men (because they're the ones that are attracted to you, not the other way around).

You don't choose to be trans, or gay, just as you don't choose to have Down Syndrome or autism or a fetal disfigurement.

You can choose, however, what church you go to, or what holy book you pick up and read, or what religious beliefs you want your kids to have.

Anyway, in regards to the actual post, which clearly Alben Barkley did not even care enough to comment on - and instead went right smack into an ad hominem attack on me - I don't apologize for anything I wrote.

Lately, on this forum, which I have been a member of for quite some time, I have received intense blowback for my opinions.  That's what this site is all about... but I never thought it would ever get to the point where instead of just disagreeing, it became personal, and petty, and we started to go after one another's gender identity...

It's gotten really bad, but I keep coming back because so much of Reddit is under strict censorship.

Anyway, I think maybe I should just start up a YouTube channel and then people can really see me and hear me talk and see how I act before they really are able to judge me at all.  Maybe I just need to get off this forum because I spend too much time on here, and it's not helping me feel any better.

It's just honestly becoming something I don't want to be a part of anymore.

[Shaula🏳️‍⚧️]

i was actually interested in the topic of the thread
somehow this became a sh**tshow

[vitoNova]

Hell no.

As an aside, I like my womyn approximately 24.5% manly.