If Ashli Babbitt had lived, what penalty should she have received?

[kwabbit]

Bruh wtf why are people supporting the death penalty for her? There's no record of killing or injuring anyone, nor is there much evidence of 'conspiracy', in the sense that she was essentially just at the front of a disorganized mob. While something grim might've happened had the mob gotten access to our Congress, I doubt many in that mob truly knew what they were going to do.

What's the charge for sedition? That's probably the most fitting penalty. This isn't Soviet Russia or Nazi Germany, we don't kill people if they don't kill people first.

[Dr. MB]

Love to see people who claim to oppose tough on crime politics call for extreme sentences when it’s someone they don’t agree with

[Bleach Blonde Bad Built Butch Bodies for Biden]

I thought this thread was about Lorena Bobbitt at first.

No soft on crime folks on this thread. Wow. The legal max for attempting to break in is probably something like 3 years if I had to guess.

I voted six months to a year, no longer than two years, with fines. I suppose I'm more in favor of shorter prison sentences in general than most of the forum, because the Nordic model simply works to all society's benefit wherever it's implemented. Just because the shooting was justified doesn't mean that she should have gotten the death penalty (which I oppose on principle) or life (which I also oppose with the exception of deadly terrorists). Obviously a much longer sentence would be deserved if she did harm anyone or stole property/information.

[CEO Mindset]

zero penalty whatsoever

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

zero penalty whatsoever

Like I don't get this claim unless you actually support the Capitol insurrection. Even trespassing into a park after hours carries a fine as does breaking into like a closed business building or a post office, it would stand to reason that breaking into the Capitol would have some penalty.

[CEO Mindset]

considering it's not anyone's property, being the capital building 'tresspassing' as an argument comes off as trolling tbh

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

considering it's not anyone's property, being the capital building 'tresspassing' as an argument comes off as trolling tbh

If it wasn't anyone's property it wouldn't have any police or security at all...it's the federal government's property.

[CEO Mindset]

right, the property of nobody in particular

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

right, the property of nobody in particular

No. If that were the case that would mean federal courthouses are nobody in particular's property and thus anyone can walk inside whenever they want and carry guns if legal in that state.

[CEO Mindset]

if the people cared enough they could make that the case... look it's not my fault or problem if people lack a CEO mindset or the soul of an emperor

[Bleach Blonde Bad Built Butch Bodies for Biden]

if the people cared enough they could make that the case... look it's not my fault or problem if people lack a CEO mindset or the soul of an emperor

Christ. Just stop.

If you bomb a police headquarters or you invade a federal building, you are infringing upon government property and you are a credible threat to the public safety. Why should there not be consequences for unlawfully forcing yourself and posing a threat to the safety of members of Congress? You are literally advocating anarchy.

[VBM]

Bruh wtf why are people supporting the death penalty for her? There's no record of killing or injuring anyone, nor is there much evidence of 'conspiracy', in the sense that she was essentially just at the front of a disorganized mob. While something grim might've happened had the mob gotten access to our Congress, I doubt many in that mob truly knew what they were going to do.

What's the charge for sedition? That's probably the most fitting penalty. This isn't Soviet Russia or Nazi Germany, we don't kill people if they don't kill people first.

Most people who voted for death penalty are probably just trolling

[DaleCooper]

Probably 6 months to a year, assuming she didn't assault anyone.

[Torie]

I voted 1-2 years myself. She was I think the first one to smash in a window to try to get inside the Capitol building if I recall correctly from the video. That is an exacerbating fact to me. Her being shot I think also had something to do with the cops retreating immediately thereafter. They had reason to believe that at that point that an enraged mob might be out for blood, most particularly theirs.

I want to know how long Trump did nothing after seeing that video by the way.

[Stand With Israel. Crush Hamas]

Given the stage of the attack she was in and the fact that she could argue she was pushed forward by the crowd, I don't see how her case doesn't get pled out into a sentence of no more than a year for trespassing and destruction of federal property. The ones who are getting the harsher sentences are the ones who got in deeper to the Capitol and actively sought to harm officials or break into their offices.

[Fuzzy Bear]

Death Penalty, just like everyone else who participated in the riots, and Trump should be getting from our justice system.

Did you support the repeal of the Death Penalty in New York State?  If so, why did you.  (I'm a lifelong Death Penalty oppenent, fyi.)

[Torie]

Given the stage of the attack she was in and the fact that she could argue she was pushed forward by the crowd, I don't see how her case doesn't get pled out into a sentence of no more than a year for trespassing and destruction of federal property. The ones who are getting the harsher sentences are the ones who got in deeper to the Capitol and actively sought to harm officials or break into their offices.

She smashed open the window with some kind of hammer of her own volition, so I don't think that argument for mitigation would get much traction. It certainly would not with me as the judge doing the sentencing.

[Stand With Israel. Crush Hamas]

Given the stage of the attack she was in and the fact that she could argue she was pushed forward by the crowd, I don't see how her case doesn't get pled out into a sentence of no more than a year for trespassing and destruction of federal property. The ones who are getting the harsher sentences are the ones who got in deeper to the Capitol and actively sought to harm officials or break into their offices.

She smashed open the window with some kind of hammer of her own volition, so I don't think that argument for mitigation would get much traction. It certainly would not with me as the judge doing the sentencing.

That also definitely pokes a hole in the whole "Shot an unarmed woman" part of the attacks on Byrd.

[Fuzzy Bear]

If Ashli Babbitt had lived, she should have received whatever the penalty came with the offense she was charged with. 

No one in the events of January 6 has been charged with "sedition" or "treason".  If Merrick Garland could have done so he would.  The idea that Ashli Babbitt should have received the death penalty is nothing less than psychotic.

[Florida Man for Crime]

Bruh wtf why are people supporting the death penalty for her?

The reason why the death penalty is the only viable punishment for Ashli Babbitt (or rather, would be the only viable penalty if she were actually still alive) is quite straightforward. It doesn't even directly relate to the specifics of what she did or whether that is the penalty that she "deserves."

Rather, the reason for the death penalty is that it is the only possible penalty that for which certainty exists as to its application, since this occurred on Federal property and is therefore a Federal criminal issue, and therefore falls under Presidential pardon power. The problem is that the Republican Party, by following Trump, is now an openly treasonous party which supports the attempt to illegally and violently overthrow the U.S. Government on January 6. And make no mistake, violent overthrow of a democratically elected government is the very definition of treason.

It is possible that Trump (or another pro-treason Republican) could be elected President in 2024, or 2028, or some other time. And if that happens, one of the first things that Trump (or another pro-treason Republican) would do would be to pardon Babbitt and other conspirators in the January 6 putsch. The ONLY penalty that could not be revoked by pardon is death (although the dead can be posthumously "pardoned," they can't be brought back to life). And for that reason, the only penalty that could be reasonably applied to Babbitt is death.

Ideally it could be otherwise, and punishments could be determined by normal considerations of how severe the offense is and the circumstances etc. But for that to be possible, the Republican Party would have to change its stance and come out firmly against treason. If that were the case, then perhaps the most fitting punishment would indeed be just a certain number of years in prison, I don't know.

But Republicans will never denounce treason because too many of their supporters hate the American ideals of democracy and freedom, and so that leaves death as the only option for punishment.

[Stand With Israel. Crush Hamas]

Y'all really need to read up on Abraham Lincoln and understand why executing every foot soldier in an illegal uprising against the government is not the kind of action that leads to peace.

[Ancestral Republican]

Firing squad or guillotine.

[NewYorkExpress]

Death Penalty, just like everyone else who participated in the riots, and Trump should be getting from our justice system.

Did you support the repeal of the Death Penalty in New York State?  If so, why did you.  (I'm a lifelong Death Penalty oppenent, fyi.)

I wasn't old enough to have a political opinion at the time, but I likely would have supported more limits on the Death Penalty, not outright repeal.

[○∙◄☻¥tπ[╪AV┼cVê└]

Love to see people who claim to oppose tough on crime politics call for extreme sentences when it’s someone they don’t agree with

A lot of people on both sides seem to have done a 180 here compared to their normal stated positions.

[Anti-Trump Truth Socialite JD Vance Enjoying Juror]

I said 6 months to 1 year. I think there's some wiggle room on the top end of that, but at the end of the day she wasn't one of the ones who assaulted people. The fact that 50% of Atlasians are voting for 10+ years, life imprisonment, or the death penalty is bizarre and a bit disturbing.