Biden to address the nation at 3:45pm

[Sprouts Farmers Market ✘]

The media is the enemy of the people.

[Green Line]

https://twitter.com/parkerbutler10/status/1427295338382118918

Correct.  The best decision of his presidency.

[Middle-aged Europe]

Yah even one of my liberal friends is calling this speech terrible and said it was gaslighting the nation of Afghanistan

That was the part of it I strongly took issue with as well.

We gutted the Afghan air force by removing contractors, gave the Army's pay to crooks we supported, told them we were going to abandon them, and now we're criticizing them for refusing to lay down their lives for our fleeting political advantage?

I can't agree with this at all. The Afghan "National Army" outnumbered the Taliban by at least 2 to 1, had more funds than the Taliban, had better equipment than the Taliban, had air supremacy over the Taliban, and started the final campaign with control of most of the country. On paper it was a far superior army to the Taliban, with or without the Americans.  I would assign all blame for the collapse on the former Afghan regime.

I bolded the relevant parts. Earlier tonight I caught a TV interview with an Afghanistan expert who was saying that a significant chunk of the ANA's supposed 300,000 troops only existed "on paper", meaning their actual force strength must have been much smaller than that.

[Xing]

Even with poor execution, this was still the best foreign policy decision of my lifetime. Make of that what you will. And of course the media is salty, wars are great for their rating$.

[MR DARK BRANDON]

When I saw the what the media was saying I almost threw up. They are basically saying that leaving a war we’ve been in for 20 years was a disaster and are criticizing Biden for not self deprecating himself.

[SWE]

As someone who has never been high on Biden, I have to give credit where it's due, this is some genuinely admirable profiles in courage stuff. He had virtually the entire media class, alongside much of the military and political elite, holding his feet to the fire, trying to get him to buckle down, whether with tired arguments of America's strength or the more popular, but equally tired, white man's burden nonsense, and I think the vast majority of US politicians would buckle under the pressure. But Biden didn't. He said he was going to rip the band-aid off, and he did it. He chose the politically risky but correct thing to do because, unlike his predecessors, he wasn't willing to continue Bush's failures in order to keep "technically lost a war" off of his Wikipedia article.

Should go without saying this better come with a very generous refugee acceptance policy, though.

[emailking]

When I saw the what the media was saying I almost threw up. They are basically saying that leaving a war we’ve been in for 20 years was a disaster and are criticizing Biden for not self deprecating himself.

On MSNBC it seems most of the criticism is around not having a better plan to get Afghans who helped us out of the country. It sounds like a lot of them are trapped.

[GeorgiaModerate]

While the final withdrawal was executed poorly, the decision to withdraw was the right one, and I felt that way even when it was Trump's decision (one of the very few times I agreed with him).  There was simply no good ending possible to American involvement in Afghanistan.  I give credit to Biden for having the courage to see it to the end and take the inevitable heat, while acknowledging that he bears some blame for the poor mechanics of the withdrawal.

[7,052,770]

When I saw the what the media was saying I almost threw up. They are basically saying that leaving a war we’ve been in for 20 years was a disaster and are criticizing Biden for not self deprecating himself.

On MSNBC it seems most of the criticism is around not having a better plan to get Afghans who helped us out of the country. It sounds like a lot of them are trapped.

What are the numbers on this though? All we're getting is an idea. How many have we actually "left behind" compared to how many we rescued?

[TiltsAreUnderrated]

The bluntness about his allies, the lack of contrition or overt virtue signalling, the refusal to take any questions and the rage caused among cable pundits.

For better and worse (and I think it is for the better, on the whole), this wasn't so far off a coherent Trumpian speech.

[kaoras]

The absolute disregard for the life of thousands of people trying to escape the Taliban, people that sided with the U.S, truly shows the absolute moral bankruptcy of the United States. So the biggest superpower in the world couldn't organize an evacuation where people weren't clinging and falling from airplanes?

The withdrawal was right but the way is being handled is an absolute disgrace and is just appalling how people here can't seem to accept any criticism.

[S019]

From what I've heard of this speech, it seems to have been pretty awful.

[compucomp]

The bluntness about his allies, the lack of contrition or overt virtue signalling, the refusal to take any questions and the rage caused among cable pundits.

For better and worse (and I think it is for the better, on the whole), this wasn't so far off a coherent Trumpian speech.

You nailed it. Although it had a far more professional style, the content was for sure Trumpian; he talked right to the people, told it like it is disregarding the usual flowery rhetoric, and struck a decidedly populist and nationalist tone.

[Agonized-Statism]

Listening now. He makes some strong arguments, and I hope his supporters listen and step back from this hawkish frenzy the country is getting whipped up into.

[emailking]

When I saw the what the media was saying I almost threw up. They are basically saying that leaving a war we’ve been in for 20 years was a disaster and are criticizing Biden for not self deprecating himself.

On MSNBC it seems most of the criticism is around not having a better plan to get Afghans who helped us out of the country. It sounds like a lot of them are trapped.

What are the numbers on this though? All we're getting is an idea. How many have we actually "left behind" compared to how many we rescued?

Yeah I don't know.

[○∙◄☻¥tπ[╪AV┼cVê└]

The absolute disregard for the life of thousands of people trying to escape the Taliban, people that sided with the U.S, truly shows the absolute moral bankruptcy of the United States. So the biggest superpower in the world couldn't organize an evacuation where people weren't clinging and falling from airplanes?

The withdrawal was right but the way is being handled is an absolute disgrace and is just appalling how people here can't seem to accept any criticism.

Absolutely we should have sent more planes. It doesn't help that our planes are flying all the way to Qatar from there. I guess that's the closest US military base.

[soundchaser]

The absolute disregard for the life of thousands of people trying to escape the Taliban, people that sided with the U.S, truly shows the absolute moral bankruptcy of the United States. So the biggest superpower in the world couldn't organize an evacuation where people weren't clinging and falling from airplanes?

The withdrawal was right but the way is being handled is an absolute disgrace and is just appalling how people here can't seem to accept any criticism.

Have you listened to the speech? Biden addresses this point directly.

[Storr]

CNN is reporting that the DoD is planning to evacuate 30,000 Afghans that assisted the US. They're also reporting that an estimated 60,000 Afghans qualify for Special Immigrant Visa status. Both numbers do not include their families and dependents. Lets cautiously say (especially in a country with a birthrate around 5 children per woman) each qualifying Afghan has three dependents. That would be somewhere between 120,000 and 240,000 SIVs and their families.

[GeneralMacArthur]

The absolute disregard for the life of thousands of people trying to escape the Taliban, people that sided with the U.S, truly shows the absolute moral bankruptcy of the United States. So the biggest superpower in the world couldn't organize an evacuation where people weren't clinging and falling from airplanes?

The withdrawal was right but the way is being handled is an absolute disgrace and is just appalling how people here can't seem to accept any criticism.

The people clinging to the airplanes aren't the ones who worked with us.  They're just literally anyone close to the airport who was able to get through the security and get onto the airstrip.

There are videos of people climbing the airport walls.  So some random guy we've never heard of climbs the airport wall, runs out onto the airstrip, and stands in front of the wheel of our airplane until we put him on and fly him to Qatar?  That's what we're supposed to do?  And if we don't, then we're morally bankrupt?

We'd be able to get more people out faster if all these randos weren't running onto the airstrip.  That's why we sent more troops.  The planes can't land or take off.

It's not our responsibility to give political asylum to literally every person in the entire world who lives under an oppressive regime.  We built an army for the Afghans.  We gave them training and weapons.  We showed them how to defend their country and beat the Taliban.  They didn't want to.  And now they want to come crying to us and jump in our planes and leave.  No.  Take responsibility for your own country.  We were there for 20 years and gave you everything you needed to prevent this from happening.  FFS.

[MasterJedi]

When I saw the what the media was saying I almost threw up. They are basically saying that leaving a war we’ve been in for 20 years was a disaster and are criticizing Biden for not self deprecating himself.

On MSNBC it seems most of the criticism is around not having a better plan to get Afghans who helped us out of the country. It sounds like a lot of them are trapped.

What are the numbers on this though? All we're getting is an idea. How many have we actually "left behind" compared to how many we rescued?

This shouldn’t have been a surprise, the Taliban has been advancing for years. Maybe if someone competent we could have gotten many, many more out. Should have gotten thousands of families and women out. That’s the only criticism I have.

[GeneralMacArthur]

When I saw the what the media was saying I almost threw up. They are basically saying that leaving a war we’ve been in for 20 years was a disaster and are criticizing Biden for not self deprecating himself.

On MSNBC it seems most of the criticism is around not having a better plan to get Afghans who helped us out of the country. It sounds like a lot of them are trapped.

What are the numbers on this though? All we're getting is an idea. How many have we actually "left behind" compared to how many we rescued?

This shouldn’t have been a surprise, the Taliban has been advancing for years. Maybe if someone competent we could have gotten many, many more out. Should have gotten thousands of families and women out. That’s the only criticism I have.

Biden addressed this in his speech.  People want to leave now that the Taliban has taken full control, but they didn't want to leave before.

Let's be real.  Anyone who wanted to leave Afghanistan before the Taliban took over had ten years to do so.  The United States signed a withdrawal agreement over a year ago.  The only people left in Afghanistan are the ones who were either waiting for the very last minute to leave, or thought maybe they'd be able to stay indefinitely and the Taliban would lose.

It's very very easy to point fingers and level cheap criticism at the Biden Administration for not getting these people out a month or two ago.  But that just doesn't square with reality.  At some point people need to stop with these cheap, feel-good, emotional reactions and reckon with the reality of the situation.

[S019]

The absolute disregard for the life of thousands of people trying to escape the Taliban, people that sided with the U.S, truly shows the absolute moral bankruptcy of the United States. So the biggest superpower in the world couldn't organize an evacuation where people weren't clinging and falling from airplanes?

The withdrawal was right but the way is being handled is an absolute disgrace and is just appalling how people here can't seem to accept any criticism.

The people clinging to the airplanes aren't the ones who worked with us.  They're just literally anyone close to the airport who was able to get through the security and get onto the airstrip.

There are videos of people climbing the airport walls.  So some random guy we've never heard of climbs the airport wall, runs out onto the airstrip, and stands in front of the wheel of our airplane until we put him on and fly him to Qatar?  That's what we're supposed to do?  And if we don't, then we're morally bankrupt?

We'd be able to get more people out faster if all these randos weren't running onto the airstrip.  That's why we sent more troops.  The planes can't land or take off.

It's not our responsibility to give political asylum to literally every person in the entire world who lives under an oppressive regime.  We built an army for the Afghans.  We gave them training and weapons.  We showed them how to defend their country and beat the Taliban.  They didn't want to.  And now they want to come crying to us and jump in our planes and leave.  No.  Take responsibility for your own country.  We were there for 20 years and gave you everything you needed to prevent this from happening.  FFS.

Are you serious? This is quite frankly a morally bankrupt post. We can perfectly be able to accept refugees and we should do so. Also we didn't properly train them. Let me ask this: did you also oppose taking refugees from Syria?

[KaiserDave]

When I saw the what the media was saying I almost threw up. They are basically saying that leaving a war we’ve been in for 20 years was a disaster and are criticizing Biden for not self deprecating himself.

On MSNBC it seems most of the criticism is around not having a better plan to get Afghans who helped us out of the country. It sounds like a lot of them are trapped.

What are the numbers on this though? All we're getting is an idea. How many have we actually "left behind" compared to how many we rescued?

This shouldn’t have been a surprise, the Taliban has been advancing for years. Maybe if someone competent we could have gotten many, many more out. Should have gotten thousands of families and women out. That’s the only criticism I have.

Biden addressed this in his speech.  People want to leave now that the Taliban has taken full control, but they didn't want to leave before.

Let's be real.  Anyone who wanted to leave Afghanistan before the Taliban took over had ten years to do so.  The United States signed a withdrawal agreement over a year ago.  The only people left in Afghanistan are the ones who were either waiting for the very last minute to leave, or thought maybe they'd be able to stay indefinitely and the Taliban would lose.

It's very very easy to point fingers and level cheap criticism at the Biden Administration for not getting these people out a month or two ago.  But that just doesn't square with reality.  At some point people need to stop with these cheap, feel-good, emotional reactions and reckon with the reality of the situation.

It's not just random Afghans (who should absolutely be given asylum anyways), but our supporters in Afghanistan are not all at the airport, as we speak they are being searched for, hunted down, and brutally murdered. Biden made the right choice to withdraw and I respect him for standing by his decision, but the last few days have been a disaster (and it's not all the fault of the ANA/Ghani), no ifs or buts.

[Alcibiades]

Biden spending so much of the speech blaming the Afghans is really scummy. The US built up the Afghan Army so that it was structurally dependent on US logistical and air support, then pulled the rug out from right under it. After such a demoralising blow, it’s hardly surprising it folded so quickly in the face of the Taliban.

Biden, while defending his decision to withdraw, had to show more humility after what was a disastrous exit. The mighty US blaming everything on the plucky Afghans is not a good look, to put it mildly. What he should have said was something along the lines of, “The US has failed. For that I am truly sorry to the Afghan people, but we simply could not stay in the country indefinitely.”

[kaoras]

The absolute disregard for the life of thousands of people trying to escape the Taliban, people that sided with the U.S, truly shows the absolute moral bankruptcy of the United States. So the biggest superpower in the world couldn't organize an evacuation where people weren't clinging and falling from airplanes?

The withdrawal was right but the way is being handled is an absolute disgrace and is just appalling how people here can't seem to accept any criticism.

The people clinging to the airplanes aren't the ones who worked with us.  They're just literally anyone close to the airport who was able to get through the security and get onto the airstrip.

There are videos of people climbing the airport walls.  So some random guy we've never heard of climbs the airport wall, runs out onto the airstrip, and stands in front of the wheel of our airplane until we put him on and fly him to Qatar?  That's what we're supposed to do?  And if we don't, then we're morally bankrupt?

We'd be able to get more people out faster if all these randos weren't running onto the airstrip.  That's why we sent more troops.  The planes can't land or take off.

It's not our responsibility to give political asylum to literally every person in the entire world who lives under an oppressive regime.  We built an army for the Afghans.  We gave them training and weapons.  We showed them how to defend their country and beat the Taliban.  They didn't want to.  And now they want to come crying to us and jump in our planes and leave.  No.  Take responsibility for your own country.  We were there for 20 years and gave you everything you needed to prevent this from happening.  FFS.

I don't know why you are talking to me like if I was an Afghani, but what you are saying does show you that you are morally bankrupt, yes. The lifes of those "randos" are worth nothing? Not everyone has the means to leave, and it was widely reported the long lines for getting a visa the weeks prior to the fall of Kabul. You talk like leaving the country is as simple of wanting to do it one evening.