Rank G7 countries from most conservative to most progressive

[mileslunn]

As for topic on English speaking countries, this is for G7.  Admittedly it depends whether you use social or fiscal so I did both separately.

Fiscally

1.  United States
2.  Japan
3.  United Kingdom
4.  Germany
5.  Canada
6.  Italy
7.  France

Socially

1.  Japan
2.  Italy
3.  United States
4.  France
5.  United Kingdom
6.  Germany
7.  Canada

[EastwoodS]

You know, a lot of people on here don’t like these but I actually do kinda enjoy them. Nice work.

[WindowPhil]

You ranked Japan and Italy (two secular countries) as more socially conservative than the United States. I'd disagree that they're more socially conservative than the United States.


In regards to Prudishness. Japan is a country that has a rich historic tradition of nude Onsen bathhouses, while Italy has a rich tradition of nude bathhouses that goes back to the Romans. Censorship abounds in the United States, with American media being bleeped and blurred and cities like Virginia Beach banning profanity. Whereas Italy and Japan air uncensored media and have no such cities that ban profanity. Private prostitution is legal in Italy, Japan has a thriving sex industry. Whereas in the United States, it's illegal everywhere outside of rural Nevada.

Abortion is a settled issue in all G7 countries, save for the United States.

Gun Control is a settled issue in all G7 countries, save for the United States.

LGBT rights are a settled issue, or much less heated of an issue in 6 members of the G7. Save for the United States where transgender issues are a hot political topic.

The United States is an anomaly due to the fact that a far wider variety of jobs utilize drug testing than your average high income democracy. Not to mention the fact that it has the largest prison population per capita in the world.

The United States has a drinking age of 21 whereas the rest of the G7 has a lower age.

Another thing to consider is that the United States is (to my knowledge) the only G7 country with a large population of religious fundamentalists. The other 6 are completely secular and just nominally religious. You probably won't be disowned in 6 of the G7 countries for being LGBT or irreligious. The 1 you likely will? The United States.

The United States uses checks, SMS (when Japan uses Line and Italy uses Whatsapp), and America isn't going to ban single use plastic like the rest of the G7. So there's more of an "if it aint broke, don't fix it" mentality in the United States.


I'm curious how you think Japan and Italy are more conservative than this.

[EastwoodS]

You ranked Japan and Italy (two secular countries) as more socially conservative than the United States. I'd disagree that they're more socially conservative than the United States.


In regards to Prudishness. Japan is a country that has a rich historic tradition of nude Onsen bathhouses, while Italy has a rich tradition of nude bathhouses that goes back to the Romans. Censorship abounds in the United States, with American media being bleeped and blurred and cities like Virginia Beach banning profanity. Whereas Italy and Japan air uncensored media and have no such cities that ban profanity. Private prostitution is legal in Italy, Japan has a thriving sex industry. Whereas in the United States, it's illegal everywhere outside of rural Nevada.

Abortion is a settled issue in all G7 countries, save for the United States.

Gun Control is a settled issue in all G7 countries, save for the United States.

LGBT rights are a settled issue, or much less heated of an issue in 6 members of the G7. Save for the United States where transgender issues are a hot political topic.

The United States is an anomaly due to the fact that a far wider variety of jobs utilize drug testing than your average high income democracy. Not to mention the fact that it has the largest prison population per capita in the world.

The United States has a drinking age of 21 whereas the rest of the G7 has a lower age.

Another thing to consider is that the United States is (to my knowledge) the only G7 country with a large population of religious fundamentalists. The other 6 are completely secular and just nominally religious. You probably won't be disowned in 6 of the G7 countries for being LGBT or irreligious. The 1 you likely will? The United States.

The United States uses checks, SMS (when Japan uses Line and Italy uses Whatsapp), and America isn't going to ban single use plastic like the rest of the G7. So there's more of an "if it aint broke, don't fix it" mentality in the United States.


I'm curious how you think Japan and Italy are more conservative than this.

US has the Death penalty too.

[mileslunn]

You ranked Japan and Italy (two secular countries) as more socially conservative than the United States. I'd disagree that they're more socially conservative than the United States.


In regards to Prudishness. Japan is a country that has a rich historic tradition of nude Onsen bathhouses, while Italy has a rich tradition of nude bathhouses that goes back to the Romans. Censorship abounds in the United States, with American media being bleeped and blurred and cities like Virginia Beach banning profanity. Whereas Italy and Japan air uncensored media and have no such cities that ban profanity. Private prostitution is legal in Italy, Japan has a thriving sex industry. Whereas in the United States, it's illegal everywhere outside of rural Nevada.

Abortion is a settled issue in all G7 countries, save for the United States.

Gun Control is a settled issue in all G7 countries, save for the United States.

LGBT rights are a settled issue, or much less heated of an issue in 6 members of the G7. Save for the United States where transgender issues are a hot political topic.

The United States is an anomaly due to the fact that a far wider variety of jobs utilize drug testing than your average high income democracy. Not to mention the fact that it has the largest prison population per capita in the world.

The United States has a drinking age of 21 whereas the rest of the G7 has a lower age.

Another thing to consider is that the United States is (to my knowledge) the only G7 country with a large population of religious fundamentalists. The other 6 are completely secular and just nominally religious. You probably won't be disowned in 6 of the G7 countries for being LGBT or irreligious. The 1 you likely will? The United States.

The United States uses checks, SMS (when Japan uses Line and Italy uses Whatsapp), and America isn't going to ban single use plastic like the rest of the G7. So there's more of an "if it aint broke, don't fix it" mentality in the United States.


I'm curious how you think Japan and Italy are more conservative than this.

US is maybe more polarized as it is true nowhere in Italy or Japan is as socially conservative as Bible Belt, but by same token you don't have anywhere as liberal as San Francisco, Boulder, Madison, Boston, Seattle, Portland in those countries.  Heck Canada is probably only country where you have liberal equivalents like that and even there far fewer.

Also on death penalty, Japan still has death penalty and on crime and punishment, reform in sentencing isn't discussed, still very much lock'em up attitude.  Likewise gay marriage not permitted in Japan and Italy whereas it is in the United States.  For marijuana legalization, only Canada has legalized it nationally while it is illegal in all the others.  In fact in Japan, you can get a very long jail sentence for smoking marijuana.

On booze, Canada in some ways is probably most conservative.  While lower drinking age, most provinces don't let you buy booze at supermarket like in you can in most of the US and we still have government run liquor stores in most provinces although unlike 30 years ago most allow some private competition in various forms.  At same time ironically it is parties on left who are most supportive of restrictive liquor laws while parties on right who are most likely to favor liberalizing them.

So when I put Italy and Japan higher, I took average understanding some parts of US are more socially conservative than anywhere in those countries, put some parts more socially liberal than others.

Also on immigration both way more conservative.  Japan has almost no immigration while in Italy much like Japan, majority see immigration as a negative and want less of it.  By contrast in US despite some very loud nativists, majority of Americans see immigration as a positive.  In fact only Canada of G7 is more liberal in attitudes on immigration.  Its just in US, the antis are much more in your face than they are in others. 

[TheTide]

The United States is anything but fiscally conservative going by its national debt.

[jaymichaud]

Japan
Italy
USA
France
Germany
UK
Canada

[CumbrianLefty]

The United States is anything but fiscally conservative going by its national debt.

Yes, its more rhetoric than reality. But that turns out to actually be the case an awful lot.

[WindowPhil]

Why is Japan considered fiscally conservative?

[mileslunn]

Why is Japan considered fiscally conservative?

I was ranking more by size of government.  Of G7 countries, Japan has second lowest tax levels relative to GDP with only US being lower.  It has a modest size welfare state, but not nearly as large as what you see in Germany, France, or Italy.

[mileslunn]

The United States is anything but fiscally conservative going by its national debt.

I look at overall size of government.  US has lowest taxes of G7 countries which if on right you want lower taxes.  Has least generous welfare state, after all only G7 country that doesn't have universal health care while highest tuition fees for post secondary education (in Germany it is free, France it is only around 300 Euros a year while US 10 to 20K).  While gap has closed, on state ownership also lowest although UK privatized a lot under Thatcher, but US unlike others never really nationalized much.  Its also attitudes too as in US politicians play up favoring small government a lot more than other countries and being labeled as supporting bigger government is much more politically damaging than it is in other G7 countries.

[President Punxsutawney Phil]

Why is Japan considered fiscally conservative?

I was ranking more by size of government.  Of G7 countries, Japan has second lowest tax levels relative to GDP with only US being lower.  It has a modest size welfare state, but not nearly as large as what you see in Germany, France, or Italy.

In Japan there is an invisible safety net of sorts due to East Asian collectivist ideals resulting in people being especially likely to support their family members more when they are in dire straits. But it's hard to calculate the exact impact of this on the ability of the government to spend less on welfare.

[mileslunn]

Why is Japan considered fiscally conservative?

I was ranking more by size of government.  Of G7 countries, Japan has second lowest tax levels relative to GDP with only US being lower.  It has a modest size welfare state, but not nearly as large as what you see in Germany, France, or Italy.

In Japan there is an invisible safety net of sorts due to East Asian collectivist ideals resulting in people being especially likely to support their family members more when they are in dire straits. But it's hard to calculate the exact impact of this on the ability of the government to spend less on welfare.

Very true, East Asian cultures do put a strong emphasis on family and its common for children to look after parents in elderly years not turn to state in West.  Still that would make them more fiscally conservative even though as you mention people individually do things they won't in the West thus less need.

[Lechasseur]

Japan
Italy
USA
France
Germany
UK
Canada

This seems about right

[OSR stands with Israel]

My hottake is Canada really isnt more liberal than the UK. Yes the Liberal Party wins a lot more but they are way more moderate than the Labour party who has managed to take the UK a huge lurch left everytime they are in power and the Tories in the UK currently are basically how the Ontario PC Party is.

[mileslunn]

My hottake is Canada really isnt more liberal than the UK. Yes the Liberal Party wins a lot more but they are way more moderate than the Labour party who has managed to take the UK a huge lurch left everytime they are in power and the Tories in the UK currently are basically how the Ontario PC Party is.

I would say UK is far closer to Canada than US but still more conservative.  Conservatives usually get north of 40% in UK while in Canada even if more moderate I doubt they would get that high.  Maybe mid to high 30s instead of struggling to hit 30%.  Labour under Corbyn definitely more left wing, but when compared to Starmer, Miliband and Brown, Trudeau is not a lot different.  Perhaps slightly more centrist, but he would be far more like those three than Johnson, May or Cameron.  Likewise doubt he would ever agree to a coalition with Tories like Clegg did.  Never mind last Labour leader to actually win was Tony Blair and he was definitely more conservative than Trudeau although similar to Martin and Chretien.

[The Right Honourable Martin Brian Mulroney PC CC GOQ]

My hottake is Canada really isnt more liberal than the UK. Yes the Liberal Party wins a lot more but they are way more moderate than the Labour party who has managed to take the UK a huge lurch left everytime they are in power and the Tories in the UK currently are basically how the Ontario PC Party is.

The Ontario PC Party isn't considered that moderate by Canadian standards though.

[OSR stands with Israel]

My hottake is Canada really isnt more liberal than the UK. Yes the Liberal Party wins a lot more but they are way more moderate than the Labour party who has managed to take the UK a huge lurch left everytime they are in power and the Tories in the UK currently are basically how the Ontario PC Party is.

The Ontario PC Party isn't considered that moderate by Canadian standards though.

Lol What, Doug Ford is clearly more moderate than Stephen Harper, Andrew Scheer, and Jason Kenney

[WindowPhil]

Why is Japan considered fiscally conservative?

I was ranking more by size of government.  Of G7 countries, Japan has second lowest tax levels relative to GDP with only US being lower.  It has a modest size welfare state, but not nearly as large as what you see in Germany, France, or Italy.

In Japan there is an invisible safety net of sorts due to East Asian collectivist ideals resulting in people being especially likely to support their family members more when they are in dire straits. But it's hard to calculate the exact impact of this on the ability of the government to spend less on welfare.

Very true, East Asian cultures do put a strong emphasis on family and its common for children to look after parents in elderly years not turn to state in West.  Still that would make them more fiscally conservative even though as you mention people individually do things they won't in the West thus less need.

America kind of does this too. Except it's not a safety net, but a sense of "familial ownership" of adult family members (imagine a parent telling a child "You will be a Christian, and you will be a republican. You are our son and you will live how we require you to, even outside of our house as an adult.")

[The Right Honourable Martin Brian Mulroney PC CC GOQ]

My hottake is Canada really isnt more liberal than the UK. Yes the Liberal Party wins a lot more but they are way more moderate than the Labour party who has managed to take the UK a huge lurch left everytime they are in power and the Tories in the UK currently are basically how the Ontario PC Party is.

The Ontario PC Party isn't considered that moderate by Canadian standards though.

Lol What, Doug Ford is clearly more moderate than Stephen Harper, Andrew Scheer, and Jason Kenney

Sure, but I'm telling you that most Ontarians don't see Ford as a moderate in today's context.

Doug Ford isn't as much of an ideological conservative as Harper was (in fact Ford seems to have very little in the way of an actual ideology), but his government hasn't been a particularly red tory one either. Plus, the Ontario PC backrooms are full of former Harper people.

[OSR stands with Israel]

My hottake is Canada really isnt more liberal than the UK. Yes the Liberal Party wins a lot more but they are way more moderate than the Labour party who has managed to take the UK a huge lurch left everytime they are in power and the Tories in the UK currently are basically how the Ontario PC Party is.

The Ontario PC Party isn't considered that moderate by Canadian standards though.

Lol What, Doug Ford is clearly more moderate than Stephen Harper, Andrew Scheer, and Jason Kenney

Sure, but I'm telling you that most Ontarians don't see Ford as a moderate in today's context.

Doug Ford isn't as much of an ideological conservative as Harper was (in fact Ford seems to have very little in the way of an actual ideology), but his government hasn't been a particularly red tory one either. Plus, the Ontario PC backrooms are full of former Harper people.

sure Ontarians dont see Ford as a moderate, just like most British probably dont view May or Boris as moderates but they are still more moderate compared to the Harper and Scheer Tories

[The Right Honourable Martin Brian Mulroney PC CC GOQ]

My hottake is Canada really isnt more liberal than the UK. Yes the Liberal Party wins a lot more but they are way more moderate than the Labour party who has managed to take the UK a huge lurch left everytime they are in power and the Tories in the UK currently are basically how the Ontario PC Party is.

The Ontario PC Party isn't considered that moderate by Canadian standards though.

Lol What, Doug Ford is clearly more moderate than Stephen Harper, Andrew Scheer, and Jason Kenney

Sure, but I'm telling you that most Ontarians don't see Ford as a moderate in today's context.

Doug Ford isn't as much of an ideological conservative as Harper was (in fact Ford seems to have very little in the way of an actual ideology), but his government hasn't been a particularly red tory one either. Plus, the Ontario PC backrooms are full of former Harper people.

sure Ontarians dont see Ford as a moderate, just like most British probably dont view May or Boris as moderates but they are still more moderate compared to the Harper and Scheer Tories

I guess that's fair, at least compared to Scheer. More moderate than Harper I question a bit, personally of course Harper is way more conservative than Doug, but his government was fairly cautious and moderate compared to Ford's 2019 cuts.

[mileslunn]

My hottake is Canada really isnt more liberal than the UK. Yes the Liberal Party wins a lot more but they are way more moderate than the Labour party who has managed to take the UK a huge lurch left everytime they are in power and the Tories in the UK currently are basically how the Ontario PC Party is.

The Ontario PC Party isn't considered that moderate by Canadian standards though.

Lol What, Doug Ford is clearly more moderate than Stephen Harper, Andrew Scheer, and Jason Kenney

Sure, but I'm telling you that most Ontarians don't see Ford as a moderate in today's context.

Doug Ford isn't as much of an ideological conservative as Harper was (in fact Ford seems to have very little in the way of an actual ideology), but his government hasn't been a particularly red tory one either. Plus, the Ontario PC backrooms are full of former Harper people.

sure Ontarians dont see Ford as a moderate, just like most British probably dont view May or Boris as moderates but they are still more moderate compared to the Harper and Scheer Tories

I guess that's fair, at least compared to Scheer. More moderate than Harper I question a bit, personally of course Harper is way more conservative than Doug, but his government was fairly cautious and moderate compared to Ford's 2019 cuts.

I think on cuts you also have to look at context.  Cameron who was seen as moderate had far bigger cuts than any PM has entertained.  Biggest seen in past half century were Chretien/Martin government.  Generally speaking when you have big deficits, spending cuts always happen eventually, its more just a matter of when.  Its more does when do cuts just based over ideology or do they do so over circumstances.  Mike Harris was the former while Ford more the latter.  Mike Harris also cut taxes dramatically whereas Ford hasn't touched tax rates by and large except scrapping cap and trade.  Ontario PCs still very much lean right.  Didn't always, they used to be very centrist pre Mike Harris, but Harris really pulled party to right on fiscal issues at least.  Its also why they were natural governing party before him while since have lost more elections than won.

[King of Kensington]

Yeah Harris was very much a conservative "revolutionary" and his team had a lot of ideological zeal, don't see that as much with Ford.